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Misogi Kumagawa vs Ryougi Shiki

Kami95

Kami95

484
55
The guy who can erase everything vs the girl who can kill everything.

Both at full power (Kumagawa with All Fiction, Bookmaker, April Fiction and Non Fiction, Shiki with 3rd personality and family sword), both 100% serious, no CIS/PIS.

All Fiction can probably erase MEoDP, MEoDP can probably "kill" All Fiction. Who do you think would win?

I think Kumagawa can outspeed Shiki (both can erase/kill time, but Shiki probably needs to "cut" it while Kumagawa can just erase it without moving) and erase her from existence before she can permanently kill him, but I'd like to hear your opinions.

P.S. It's my first thread, sorry if I did something wrong lol
 
So....Void Shiki?

Based off statements, she's Akasha so she doesn't mind one universe being erased and can retaliate on a spiritual level to wipe out Kumagawa.

From feats, she gets destroyed in the blink of an eye.
 
Yeah, I'm talking about Void Shiki.

I know she's connected to Akasha, but I tought that "only" makes her Omniscient/Nigh-Omniscient. If she still need a cutting motion to use her power, Kumagawa could erase MEoDP before she can kill anything (or use Bookmaker to seal them), and she wouldn't be able to kill him anymore.

Or am I wrong?

P.S. My english is pretty bad, I'm sorry about that.
 
Base Shiki's ability is more than capable of killing both kumagawa and All Fiction.

Her MEoDP is far more broken than All Fiction.

Going with Void Shiki is just an annihilation for Kumagawa.
 
Ehh, he said no PIS/CIS Kumagawa though. We're talking about the one that could accidentally erase the world.

He pretty easily beats Base Shiki. It's a stomp pretty much.

Not Void though.
 
Of course Shiki can kill Kumagawa and All Fiction, but Kumagawa can erase Shiki and MEoDP from existence, so I think they're even, the only thing that matters is speed. According to their pages, Kumagawa is Hypersonic+, Shiki is Supersonic+ (slower) to High Hypersonic (faster). Both can obtain infinite speed (erasing/killing time), but doesn't Shiki need to "cut" time first? If Kumagawa erase time while she's still "cutting" it, couldn't he kill/erase/seal her before she can use MEoDP? Or at least seal MEoDP.

Also, are we sure MEoDP is far broken than All Fiction? By statements, it's said both can erase/kill reality itself, and by feats both erased/killed conceptual things (Kumagawa erased the time, Shiki "killed" the future), they look even to me.
 
Alakabamm said:
He pretty easily beats Base Shiki.
Click to expand...
Well, i have my doubts about that.

The fact is that MEoDP negates regeneraton, not sure if All Fiction will work after that.

Also, using the statement of destroying the world it's really vague. I see this eding just like her confrontation with Mitsuru. (The guy that was able to see the future).
 
KamiYasha said:
Well, i have my doubts about that.

The fact is that MEoDP negates regeneraton, not sure if All Fiction will work after that.

Also, using the statement of destroying the world it's really vague. I see this eding just like her confrontation with Mitsuru. (The guy that was able to see the future).
Click to expand...
Huh?

No, Shiki has a major flaw in her power. What she has is the power to kill anything, but as a result of that, she needs to choose what that thing is. She doesn't just automatically kill what she needs to kill, she needs to think it through. MEoDP is capable of killing the soul...but Shiki goes after the body first.

Also, it's not like she has ever shown nigh-instantaneous erasure of time and distance, which Kumagawa has. He doesn't even need to touch her, nor is his power touchable. She gets erased in the blink of an eye. That's just what his powerset is. Only Void has any type of defense against something like that.
 
Can someone tell me what exactly Void Shiki is? I tought she was just an Omniscient Shiki, but if that's the case she's still too slow to win against Kumagawa (since her power still requires at least the time to swing the katana and cut her target, even for abstract targets, while All Fiction is istantaneous).

Also, I remember Arcueid (Tsukihime) managed to regenerate after being sliced to pieced from MEoDP, so maybe they're are not irreversible as I tought? (since it's the same power I tought I should consider Tsukihime too, but I only read the Arcueid route, and it was some time ago, so I don't remember well)
 
Arcueid only survived because 1) she is basically supported by type earth(Gaia) and 2) she has no concept of death at night.(if I remember correctly)

Void shiki is another personality of shiki and the embodiment of Akasha. She may or may not be just as strong as akasha( this would make her at least 2-C as she bragged about being able to rewrite the laws of physics and destroy all life.
 
Ok, got it.

But I'm still not sure if Void Shiki has actually that much of an advantage. Sure, she can rewrite reality, but Kumagawa can tecnically erase it, so they look pretty much on the same level to me.

Is the power to "being able to rewrite the laws of physics and destroy all life" related to MEoDP (Omniscience + MEoDP = you can see everything and kill everything, including the concept of life itself or the laws of physics) or it's only related to her connection with Akasha, and she doesn't need to use MEoDP to do that? In the first case, I think Kumagawa can still blitz her, in the second case Shiki wouldn't need to waste time swinging her sword, so that wouldn't be an option.
 
If Void Shiki is just an absolute reality warper, it just means I didn't know her power level, so she actually stomps.
 
Akasha is related to Shiki's origin which is related to her MEoDP. The way it was described is that all humans begin as Akasha, but only Shiki managed to maintain that personality due to her connection to the void.
 
Ok, I understand the concept, and she's actually stronger than I tought. However, it should still be possible to erase her from existence, or at least seal her with Book Maker (it was able to seal Anshinin for 3 whole years, so I don't think Shiki can resist, IF she gets hit). So the question is: can Kumagawa blitz Void Shiki? If he can, then he probably wins, if he can't, he probably doesn't stand a chance.
 
Kami95 said:
Ok, I understand the concept, and she's actually stronger than I tought. However, it should still be possible to erase her from existence, or at least seal her with Book Maker (it was able to seal Anshinin for 3 whole years, so I don't think Shiki can resist, IF she gets hit). So the question is: can Kumagawa blitz Void Shiki? If he can, then he probably wins, if he can't, he probably doesn't stand a chance.
Click to expand...
The question is would Akasha allow Shiki to get killed.
 
I think shill ryougi should be able to win. If I remember Kara no kyoukai well enough base shiki is capable of killing concepts such as distance, and speed. By cutting lines she can completely negate regen as whatever is cut off never existed at all so it can't heal. Lastly if she stabs his point his entire existence is killed, and he ceases to have existed.
 
Void Shiki can do that, but All Fiction can probably do the same thing (or at least erase Shiki herself), and is "faster" (because it doesn't need any preparation, while Shiki need to move her arm and cut the lines).

If Akasha doesn't want Shiki to die, then Shiki would certainly win, but if it doesn't care, Kumagawa could still have a chance.
 
So the winner is whoever's quicker to the draw, and going by stats and the amount of prep needed, that seems to be Kumagawa.
 
I would say Misogi, due to the fact that his thought reactions would be faster than her motion reactions. Also, if they were both to start out by ersasing time, Misogi's Bookmaker would neutralize Shiki before he All Fictions her into oblivion.
 
Oh, wait, I found this in Akasha's page:

"Note: Akasha has never actually appeared in any Type-Moon work to date (Only mentioned a few times). Akasha has been described to be the "force" of everything, being capable of make Shiki its own avatar and granting her any wish she want, so, is irrelevant to said that Akasha isn't a "Character", a "metaphysical location" or just the "void" surrounding the Nasuverse."

Does that mean Shiki doesn't need to move, so even their speed is the same? If so, I think Shiki would win.
 
^ Does this mean that Akasha is omnipresent? If so, then speed would be irrelevant then.
 
Sir Ovens said:
^ Does this mean that Akasha is omnipresent? If so, then speed would be irrelevant then.
Click to expand...
Akasha's speed is Irrelevant due to the fact that is a higher dimensional.
 
Akasha is probably Omnipresent, but Shiki isn't. However, if Akasha can grant any wish Shiki wants, that means she's Nigh Omnipotent, or at least a very powerful reality warper, so speed would be irrelevant.

So, yes, I think Shiki wins, or maybe they would erase each other from existence at the same time.
 
I think Kumagawa wins since his thought should be faster than Shiki's movement, and granting Shiki's any wish would be considered NLF would it not?
 
Blahblah9755 said:
I think Kumagawa wins since his thought should be faster than Shiki's movement, and granting Shiki's any wish would be considered NLF would it not?
Click to expand...
Akasha can grant her any wish she herself can do so it's not a NLF
 
If Akasha can grant any wish, this is a stomp thread.

Looks like I didn't know what Shiki's connection to Akasha actually is.
 
Taken from Kara no Kyokai Epilogue.

"Right, that is Shiki's power. Like Fujino she can see channels that normal people can't see, she is able to see the spiral of origin with her eyes. But, I can go even deeper. No... maybe I myself am that spiral."

".... Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old one with a new reality."
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
It's like saying a mother doesn't care about her child.
Click to expand...
But it's true. As long as nobody do not try to reach the Root... Akasha doesn't care what's going on. And relationship of Akasha and RShiki is not like mother-daughter but more like Supercomputer and Terminal.
 
KamiYasha said:
Alakabamm said:
He pretty easily beats Base Shiki.
Click to expand...
Well, i have my doubts about that.
The fact is that MEoDP negates regeneraton, not sure if All Fiction will work after that.

Also, using the statement of destroying the world it's really vague. I see this eding just like her confrontation with Mitsuru. (The guy that was able to see the future).
Click to expand...
All Fiction isn't Regenerationn however. It's death erasure. The only reason he couldn't erase the damage from Ihiko is because he damage could simply not be undone, which is more broad than Regenerationn negation.
 
If Kumagawa can't erase people with his All Fiction, Ryougi win this. OP also mentioned that this is Void Shiki, not just Ryougi. She can just rewrite the law and rule of Negative Skill and make Misogi into a normal harmless human then kill him.
 
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