Misgendering of A

[Wildblack1]

“There is no single established future. You should know that better than anyone, Shulk"
~ A, to Shulk, regarding what she knows about Visions and Shulk's rejection of godhood.

A is implied to be non-binary and is never refered to by 3rd person pronouns. Should be changed to "what they know" or "what A knows"

Probability Manipulation (Can increase their chance to hit an opponent, guarantee herself to dodge an attack, raise their critical hit rate, etc through the use of Accessories or lower their opponent's chances of all the above)

Not exactly sure exactly how to phrase this one with they/them but could say "guarantee they dodge an attack" or "guarantee A dodge's an attack, raise's their critical hit rate"

Empathic Manipulation (Numerous Accessories allow for A to change how aggro her opponent are towards them)

Should be "how aggro their opponent" or "how aggro A's opponent"

 

[Qawsedf234]

A is implied to be non-binary and is never refered to by 3rd person pronouns.

Dis you kean to write "only referred with 3rd person pronouns" here? Otherwise you're saying that A is gendered as female within the game.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Dis you kean to write "only referred with 3rd person pronouns" here? Otherwise you're saying that A is gendered as female within the game.

Yeah I think he mistakenly said 3rd person or he forgot what 3rd person meant

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

A was originally masculine as Alvis, but when memories were extracted and reborn as A, this form is feminine and is consistently referred to as female.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

A was originally masculine as Alvis, but when memories were extracted and reborn as A, this form is feminine and is consistently referred to as female.

The manifestation of the conscience of someone who's "between male and female" does not sound particularly feminine.

 

[ImmortalDread]

They likely want to be referred as their name – A.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I relooked profile as Inapplicable but appears to be female which sounds about right but I changed all feminine pronouns to gender neutral pronouns.

But shouldn't the same thing be done for Alvis and Alpha by that logic?

 

[HelloThere1089]

For some reason, after reading the title, I thought it was the Raikage that was being misgendered.

 

[Hypertornado099]

The manifestation of the conscience of someone who's "between male and female" does not sound particularly feminine.

She's the female representation of someone in between male and female

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

She's the female representation of someone in between male and female

Are you, perhaps, a ******* idiot

 

[Qawsedf234]

Fujiwara, chill out. This is your only warning.

 

[Deagonx]

Are you, perhaps, a ******* idiot

Fuji, come on.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Is it wrong to state that their intention is simply to remain neutral? As indicated in the text, it is probable that they wish to be referred to by their name - A.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Alpha stands in between male and female and A is the female avatar, I think Alpha is the one that goes by they. For the record Alvis

 

[ImmortalDread]

Wait, is Alpha and A different people? (so I can't be confused)

 

[Hypertornado099]

Alpha was split into two beings, the other being was A

 

[ImmortalDread]

And the other being is?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Is this really so ******* hard to understand

 

[ImmortalDread]

Why are you still being passively aggressive after being warned?

 

[Deagonx]

This is what the Xenoblade wiki has to say on the subject of each:

Alpha:

• It is revealed in Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Future Redeemed that Ontos carries both male and female traits, as he serves as the halfway point between Pneuma and Logos - the female and male aspects of the Trinity Processor respectively. However, as he and his derivative personas still identify him as a man, he is therefore listed as such.

However, for A:

• As a derivative of Ontos, who is stated to be in between the male Logos and female Pneuma, A likely carries both male and female aspects. What A identifies as is never stated in the game and A is exclusively referred to by name, rather than pronouns. This is true for both in-game dialogue, as well as other official sources such as marketing material. However, according to the game files, the internal values assigned to the "gender" of A is 1, which is used for female characters.

So, we should either use A's name exclusively or use they/them pronouns.

 

[ImmortalDread]

My inclination aligns with the former position.

 

[Hypertornado099]

And the other being is?

Alpha themself

Is this really so ******* hard to understand

Rex is talking about Alpha

So, we should either use A's name exclusively or use they/them pronouns.

I agree, I think that's reasonable

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Wait, is Alpha and A different people? (so I can't be confused)

They're both halves of the Ontos Core Crystal and A is the memories of Alvis where as Alpha is the body and most of the powers but was tainted/influenced by Consul Z.

 

[ImmortalDread]

This explains much. Thank you, DDM.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This is what the Xenoblade wiki has to say on the subject of each:

Alpha:

• It is revealed in Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Future Redeemed that Ontos carries both male and female traits, as he serves as the halfway point between Pneuma and Logos - the female and male aspects of the Trinity Processor respectively. However, as he and his derivative personas still identify him as a man, he is therefore listed as such.

However, for A:

• As a derivative of Ontos, who is stated to be in between the male Logos and female Pneuma, A likely carries both male and female aspects. What A identifies as is never stated in the game and A is exclusively referred to by name, rather than pronouns. This is true for both in-game dialogue, as well as other official sources such as marketing material. However, according to the game files, the internal values assigned to the "gender" of A is 1, which is used for female characters.

So, we should either use A's name exclusively or use they/them pronouns.

Considering A's name is shorter than any pronoun, it basically defeats the ultimate purpose of pronouns Unless we used They/Them for groups involving them. But when describing A, specially, just use the name.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Nintendo America used they for Alpha, and I think the game uses he, so I think we should use they or just her name for A

 

[ImmortalDread]

In the pursuit of clarity, one contemplates whether the usage of "they/them" pronouns signifies a state of neutrality, attributed to individuals seeking a gender-neutral expression. Accordingly, the preference for employing names as pronouns could be seen as an implication of such neutrality, prompting its adoption by others.

My thoughts-

 

[Deagonx]

I think the name is the most straightforward and leaves the least amount of room for controversy. IMO we should avoid -- to the fullest extent possible -- any situation which is likely to prompt a gender discussion on the forum. It's the worst possible venue for it that I can even imagine.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I don't oppose; thus my inclination aligns with the former position as I stated previously in your prior suggestion.
I'm simply connecting dots on what the given available context are telling us.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Ontos/Alvis is non-binary for sure. Rex explains that Logos is the male persona of the Trinity Processor, Pneuma is the female persona, and Ontos is meant to stand somewhere in between. However, things get weird when we think about Alpha and A, who appear to be the male and female aspects of Ontos respectively.

The way I see it, Alvis is non-binary, Alpha is male, and A is female. Alpha himself is also always referred to with he/him pronouns in-game

I’m fine with just referring to A by name to avoid controversy, though

 

[Hypertornado099]

I think the name is the most straightforward and leaves the least amount of room for controversy. IMO we should avoid -- to the fullest extent possible -- any situation which is likely to prompt a gender discussion on the forum. It's the worst possible venue for it that I can even imagine.

Is this simple enough to just apply now, I feel like no one would disagree.

Acausality (Type 1, 2 and 4; A should scale to their previous self)

For example, this can be reworded as "A should have similar properties to Alvis, A's previous self"

 

[Ayewale]

Yeah this change makes sense and doesn't need any more debate. Although frankly I don't think this is a big enough edit to warrant a CRT, it is effectively grammatical error.

 

[ImmortalDread]

It is the only effectively grammatical error when you change the gender; thus, you are required to create CRT to request permission.

 

[CloverDragon03]

And the other being is?

To clear up confusion, Alvis was the original being, who was then split into Alpha and A

Is this really so ******* hard to understand

Rex is talking about the original Alvis (also known as Ontos), prior to being split into Alpha and A

Alvis is unquestionably non-binary

 

[ImmortalDread]

To clear up confusion, Alvis was the original being, who was then split into Alpha and A

Aye, thank you very much!

 

[Fixxed]

She is female

 

[CurrySenpai]

Agree with changing to they/them or just using A in order to reference their character on certain pages.

 

[Joycap]

We do a little necroing

OK, first off, a 'confession' (if you can call it that): I am the one who initially revised A's 'they/them' pronouns to she/her initially, when these were still freely editable sandboxes by @JoshSSJGod.

With that said, I think there's ample evidence that A is a woman (not that this should be a debate to begin with, but bear with me) - and I'm in the camp that thinks that when Rex was explaining the personas that the Trinity Processor inhabits, he was referring to balance of gender roles (I.E: 'Ontos' was equally viable at what men and women are known for in existence). Hence, Pyra/Mythra both having Female bodies, A/Alvis being one Male and one Female, and Malos and a hypothetical 'second logos' both being male (although it is in character for Malos to not have a second 'form', as he is a destroyer and 'the endbringer' by his own admission. He's not there to create life).

This might be speculation from a lad who doesn't generally do symbolic analysis, but I'm pretty sure there's a reference to the three deities of Hinduism when it comes to the Trinity Processor (alongside Xeno's Gnostic topography). Malos specifically would be the destroyer (read: Shiva), Alvis the preserver (oh hi, Vishnu), and Pyra/Mythra as creators (Brahma goes here). Last I checked, Arab nations don't believe in the trans movement.

With this said, I think Fandom Wikis like our own have a conundrum to make: If the datamine that 'confirms' Juniper as Enby (which for matter of several discrepancies enclosed within it, and the... French, of all people, confirming Juniper to be a woman, I do not believe that she actually is Enby) - then shouldn't we be using that same datamine to confirm A as a woman? Because I think anything else reeks of goalpost moving. And try to remember, Rex says what he does about the Trinity Processor when describing Ontos's core crystal, not A specifically (even if A is the reason that Rex joins the conversation, the information extends to the lore of Aionios and a few loose ends about XC1/XC2 continuities).

Feel free to AMA, but that's my take, in any case.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

the change has been applied for months, just let it go bro

 

[Deagonx]

I'll close this.