Minor Binding of Isaac Addition

[Ogbunabali]

This will be just a minor addition for the new Binding of Isaac character and some possible additional abilities.

The Falle
A new character tab for him. And in the first key it should have Astral Projection and Invulnerability, because of the Fallen's mechanic of separating his soul and the body that is left behind is immune to all type of damage.





Additional Abilities

• Because both The Fallen and The Lost are a skeleton, and a ghost respectively, and some items turn you into a ghost as well, should that give Isaac Immortality (Type 7)?

• Forcefield Creation: through a lot of these items.

• Invisibility with this.

• Possible Quantum Tears with this item?

• Possible Void Manipulation with this item that does this. It also works on rocks, fires, spikes etc.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Bump.

 

[Elizhaa]

• Astral Projection looks fine, to me
• Invulnerabily is look to me, to be honest. I would argue that is it more a Game Mechanics
• Immortality 7 doen't look solid to me since he actually need to be stated he was dead and live an undead.
• Forcefield Creation looks fine
• Invisibility looks fine.
• Possible Quantum Tears with this item - I disagree with it being based on Quantum Manipulation but it looks it would based on Spatial Manipulation or Portal Creation.
• Possible Void Manipulation with this item that does this. It also works on rocks, fires, spikes etc.- It is not Void Manipulation but looks like it is limited Durability Negation that is luck-based.

Edited

 

[Elizhaa]

Also, you should ask more users and staff members listed in the The Binding of Isaacverse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Immortality 7 doen't look since he actually need to be stated he was dead and live an undead.
Well I thought being a ghost, and a dead baby, would give Type 7.

Possible Void Manipulation with this item that does this. It also works on rocks, fires, spikes etc.- It is not Void Manipulation but looks like it limited Durability Negation that is luck-based.
Hmm well I don't think it does anything that implies dura negation. I thought it was void manip because it completely voids not just enemies but the fires, the spiked rocks, etc.

 

[Elizhaa]

Effects

• Running into enemies deals 3.5 damage to them.
  • Damage is dealt up to twice per second per enemy.
• Adds a chance to fire piercing tears which will instantly kill any non-boss enemy.
  • The chance is very slightly affected by luck, and never gets very high.

The effect is nowhere near Void Manipulation.

Summary
Void Manipulation, also known as Nothingness Manipulation is the ability to control and manipulate a void: nothingness or non-existence.

Empty space and black holes are not examples of a void as they possess energy and exist in the conventional sense. Manipulating either is Spatial Manipulation and Black Hole Creation respectively.

Possible Uses

• Manipulation of Nothingness: The primary use of this ability, one's control over a 'nonexistent substance'. Naturally this may allow them to be resistant to the effects of existence erasure, as often interacting with a Void also causes one to be converted into a Void, although this may not always be the case.
• Conversion to Nonexistence: The user of this ability might be capable of turning targets to nothing. This can range from only turning the matter of the target to nothing to also turning things like its energy, mind, soul, space, time and/or concept to nothing. Note that most users of this ability have not the full range of the ability. Further note that one shouldn't list a character to have resistance against this ability in total, as that requires a character to have shown resistance against every imaginable ability which can erase a target.
• Conversion to Existence: The inverse of Existence Erasure. The user may be able to move something from a state of nonexistence to existence, such as reversing the effects of the aforementioned power through their innate control over nothingness. Note that this alone is not justification for Void Manipulation as much as it can be a side-effect of having it. Like conversion to nonexistence, this may be limited in scope, such as only being able to conjure physical objects as opposed to minds, souls, or concepts.
• Nonexistent Interaction: Since the user of this ability can treat "nothingness" as if it was a physical object they could manipulate, they can, in turn, affect beings that do not exist given that they also have the ability to perceive them. Note that it should not be assumed a character can 'manipulate' another character who is nonexistent, although it can be assumed that they can at least interact with characters who do not exist.

 

[Ogbunabali]

That's just the description from the wiki. There isn't actually official fluff for it, but that's the effect yes. But if you shoot that at a fire, or a spike rock, or the boulders, they completely disappear, which is something that other One Hit Kill items don't do.

 

[Elizhaa]

Ogbunabali, making thing like a fire, or a spike rock, or the boulders completely disappear isn't enough to be Void Manipulation.

 

[Ogbunabali]

And that is why I put "Possibly" because I wasn't sure what to classify it as. What do you suggest, or do we just ignore it?

 

[Elizhaa]

And that is why I put "Possibly" because I wasn't sure what to classify it as. What do you suggest, or do we just ignore it?

I mean Arceus had someone similar that was even blatant but it was not Void Manipulation. The game effect could be related to Game Mechanics

 

[Ogbunabali]

It's not game mechanics because that effect is completely unique to that specific item. Like I said no other One Hit Kill item acts that way.

The other items that immediately kill you are projectiles that disappear when they hit their target, but not Little Horn it has a natural piercing effect and doesn't stop, and as I said before it's the only item that erases things like the fires and rocks, etc.

 

[Jinsye]

The Fallen is fine

Astral Projection is fine

Type 7 should've been added a long time ago.

I thought he already had Forcefield Creation?

Camo Undies are probably just Camouflage

Don't think Continuum is Quantum Manip

I have no idea what Little Horn would be classified as tbh

 

[LightinAnt]

Everything is fine, except quantum manip. Tears reentering from the other side of the screen is just spatial manip. I'm not that familiar what counts as void manip, though it is unique in the one hit kill items in that it destroys objects too which Euthanasia doesn't

 

[Uninown]

The "Quantum Tears" one...

Continuum is an strange item; i don't know where it would really at! Though, best bet would Spatial Manipulation as the others say, though i'm a bit skeptical on that one.

I'd argue that Little Horn is just a form of Durability Negation or even One Hit Kill, being luck based. There's no implication that's any application of void; heck, Existence Erasure would apply more if so.

In regards of the rest, it's all cool and good.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Camo Undies are probably just Camouflage

I didn't know we had that power on here, you're absolutely right.

Do any of you have any idea what we should classify Continuum as? Or do we just ignore it?

And about Little Horn. It's not dura negation because it's not doing anything like that. And it's not a normal One Hit Kill, because any One Hit Kill just does a lot of damage like Euthanasia, Little Horn doesn't do any damage, I tested it in game. That's why I think it's void, or like Uninown said, EE.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Bump.

 

[Andytrenom]

Don't see evidence for void manipulation

Quantum manipulation also seems rejected, type 7 I'm not sure

The rest should be fine

 

[Ogbunabali]

Type 7 is because of The Lost who is a ghost, The Forgotte is a skeleton that you dig up from the ground and Blue Baby who is literally Isaac just dead because of suffocation.

 

[Antvasima]

The parts that have been accepted by both Andytrenom and Elizhaa can probably be applied.

 

[Ogbunabali]

What about Immortality Type 7?

 

[Antvasima]

Let's wait to see what they think.

 

[Elizhaa]

What about Immortality Type 7?

Type 7 is not solid solid enough, in my opinion

 

[Ogbunabali]

Why? There is at least a ghost, a skeleton and, quite literally, a dead baby. Are those not qualified as being un/dead?

 

[Elizhaa]

Why? There is at least a ghost, a skeleton and, quite literally, a dead baby. Are those not qualified as being un/dead?

This point: some items turn you into a ghost as well, should that give Isaac Immortality (Type 7)

This point feels closer to transformation rather than https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Immortality Immortality] (Type 7). More evidences should be required.

 

[Ogbunabali]

This point: some items turn you into a ghost as well, should that give Isaac Immortality (Type 7)

This point feels closer to transformation rather than https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Immortality Immortality] (Type 7). More evidences should be required.

Yes it should?

This only specifically to items like Spirit of the Night, and why can't it be both? There's absolutely no reason why they need to be mutually exclusive. And I'm not talking about items that transform you either, I'm talking about how you start the game as.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Bump.

 

[Elizhaa]

How you start the game is left too ambiguous as there are numerous theories whether Isaac is dead or not. This case is not helped by the Word of God either. This point is the main problem.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think everything that were accepted are fine for update though.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Now you're just going down the rabbit hole and barring the borders between reality and fictio.

Yeah the most accepted theory, and the one that Edmund himself has eluded to multiple times, on the metaphorical significance of the game "The Binding of Isaac" is Isaac's dealing with heavy trauma and imagining everything that happens in the golden chest as a form of escapism, a way to cope.

And Blue Baby symbolizes him being stuck in the chest and dying of suffocation. That's the reason he is blue, a color associated with asphyxiation, his eyes being crossed out, symbolizing again death, and him being the final boss of the polaroid.

If we're really going down this road then all of the Isaac profiles would need to be deleted because they aren't real, none of the items actually exist and none of the bosses and effects exist either. But for the purposes of this wiki we treat them as they are because otherwise it would be pointless, as this would be logical conclusion of every single verse out there.

If we're deciding to treat this as fire I don't understand why we shouldn't treat a ghost as a ghost.

 

[Elizhaa]

I am not going down a rabbit hole, I said it was too ambigous whether he is not dead. If we going,by Occam's Razor, he would be assumed alive since the evidences is not enough to prove otherwise.

 

[Ogbunabali]

If we're going by Occam's Razor we would assume a ghost is a ghost.

 

[Elizhaa]

If we're going by Occam's Razor we would assume a ghost is a ghost.

If he was a ghost, then what would be the point of having items that turn him into a ghost because I see none? I

It looks like supporting evidence that he is not a ghost.

 

[Ogbunabali]

If he was a ghost, then what would be the point of having items that turn him into a ghost because I see none?

What? What do you mean? The Lost is a ghost, he starts as one, that's his natural state of being, he doesn't need an item to turn into one. Well unless you have the Missing Poster item which let's you, guess what, turn you into a ghost upon death.

It looks like supporting evidence that he is not a ghost.
It's not "guilty until proven innocent", it's "innocent until proven guilty".

The default assumption is that a ghost/skeleton/etc is a ghost/skeleton/etc, not something else, you don't need an explicit statement of a WoG to assume that fire is fire. And you haven't given any reason why we should assume why that wouldn't be.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Ogbunabali, apologies for the misunderstanding; after reading the Lost and Fallen links, I thinkType 7 Immortality is solid. A point of advice, I think you should have linked the Lost and Fallen page initally in the OP as they would have limited confusions and besides it is a Discussion Rules:

• When arguing for changing character statistics, do not assume that the staff will have in-depth knowledge about the fictional franchise in question. Make sure to explain your suggestions in a structured manner that is easy to comprehend. You will not be allowed to change any statistics, if people cannot understand what you mean.

 

[Wokistan]

I think immortality 7 Is fine.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Type 7 is because of The Lost who is a ghost, The Forgotte is a skeleton that you dig up from the ground and Blue Baby who is literally Isaac just dead because of suffocation.
In my defense, I did link it, although not in the OP. You're right I had forgotten to link to them there.

So can I apply the accepted changes now?

 

[Elizhaa]

I think adding the accepted changes is fine; Type 7 Immortality, as well, since @Wokistan agree with Type 7 Immortality, @Ogbunabali.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I have applied the changes, this can be closed.