Minecraft Top Tiers Speed Upgrades

[Abstractions]

If you're referring to rain, not only does rain tend to be hard to see to begin with (hence why people tend to stick their hands out to test if it's raining), but it's basically omnipresent for everywhere not under shelter.

I think you are misunderstanding this argument, this isn't about rain being inescapable even through teleportation, but rather simple running water being an obstacle and threat to Endermen.

Should you place running water in front of the Enderman it will not dodge but instead take damage as the water flows into it, which it should logically be able to dodge as the Enderman would sense water as peril in this case, but it does not.

When you attempt to upgrade not just the Endermen but the whole verse as a result, you need to ask yourself if what you are applying is contradictory in any way.

When forced to combat other mobs the Enderman and the mob will be struck by each other, right? So surface level it looks as if the scaling is logical, however, Take your run-of-the-mill Skeleton, not just the Player with a bow, and put it against other mobs that would now be scaled to said Enderman. What will happen? The Skeleton will fire arrows as it does regularly and these mobs will be struck.

How could this happen, you may ask? If these mobs possess senses higher than that of those that can react to and dodge arrows, how are they fully incapable of doing so? Could it be that the arrows simply scale to the mobs for hitting them? This would be wrong as it creates a scaling loop, as we've already demonstrated Endermen can react to said arrows, and your form of scaling puts other mobs higher than they are, and the calculation runs off the premise that these arrows move at regular speeds.

So in order to justify this upgrade, you need to explain why this scaling isn't a inconsistency in order for me to accept this at all in good faith.

 

[Dalesean027]

"to dodge such peril as arrows" is the word for word statement in the mobestiary, and context is given by the gameplay itself.

Occam's Razor favors the interpretation with the least amount of assumptions and what were given is this, to assume anything more than the Enderman reacting to and dodging "peril" is more than what we're given at the simplest form and shown in game.

 

[InfiniteDay]

I think you are misunderstanding this argument, this isn't about rain being inescapable even through teleportation, but rather simple running water being an obstacle and threat to Endermen.

Should you place running water in front of the Enderman it will not dodge but instead take damage as the water flows into it, which it should logically be able to dodge as the Enderman would sense water as peril in this case, but it does not.

When you attempt to upgrade not just the Endermen but the whole verse as a result, you need to ask yourself if what you are applying is contradictory in any way.

When forced to combat other mobs the Enderman and the mob will be struck by each other, right? So surface level it looks as if the scaling is logical, however, Take your run-of-the-mill Skeleton, not just the Player with a bow, and put it against other mobs that would now be scaled to said Enderman. What will happen? The Skeleton will fire arrows as it does regularly and these mobs will be struck.

How could this happen, you may ask? If these mobs possess senses higher than that of those that can react to and dodge arrows, how are they fully incapable of doing so? Could it be that the arrows simply scale to the mobs for hitting them? This would be wrong as it creates a scaling loop, as we've already demonstrated Endermen can react to said arrows, and your form of scaling puts other mobs higher than they are, and the calculation runs off the premise that these arrows move at regular speeds.

So in order to justify this upgrade, you need to explain why this scaling isn't a inconsistency in order for me to accept this at all in good faith.

Water+Enderman is game mechanics, but I agree with this sentiment.

 

[Abstractions]

Water+Enderman is game mechanics, but I agree with this sentiment.

You cannot use game mechanics as an argument to justify a game mechanic.

 

[InfiniteDay]

You cannot use game mechanics as an argument to justify a game mechanic.

This is kinda funny out-of-context.

But the mechanic is Endermen don't like water, I don't know why they wouldn't dodge it.

 

[Abstractions]

This is kinda funny out-of-context.

Can't wait to see it in one of the threads someday.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Should you place running water in front of the Enderman it will not dodge but instead take damage as the water flows into it, which it should logically be able to dodge as the Enderman would sense water as peril in this case, but it does not.

and the same could be said for flowing lava, intentionally viscous and slow in the overworld as it is less viscous in the nether. So do we give the Enderman Below Average Human reaction speeds for implementing that?

When you attempt to upgrade not just the Endermen but the whole verse as a result, you need to ask yourself if what you are applying is contradictory in any way.

I'm not upgrading the whole verse. In fact, I'm only upgrading a small portion while downgrading the rest. As shown in the original post's "Potential Arguments", I've thought about numerous devil's advocate scenarios in my head. I did take a long and slow time to think about this. I have discord links showing this thread in the making since October. This wasn't rushed.

When forced to combat other mobs the Enderman and the mob will be struck by each other, right? So surface level it looks as if the scaling is logical, however, Take your run-of-the-mill Skeleton, not just the Player with a bow, and put it against other mobs that would now be scaled to said Enderman. What will happen? The Skeleton will fire arrows as it does regularly and these mobs will be struck.

There's no sort of dodging animation at all in the game. Using your very logic to try to counteract the endermen argument, all mobs would be scaled to below average human combat speeds for not avoiding slowly incoming lava. Below Average Human combat speeds for everyone then?

 

[Dalesean027]

So in order to justify this upgrade, you need to explain why this scaling isn't a inconsistency in order for me to accept this at all in good faith.

I do generally agree with what Deathstroke has said and the calc has been accepted, I have no problem accepting this upgrade as such though I do understand and agree to the point that this would have to be explained away as to not be an inconsistency.

 

[Abstractions]

But the mechanic is Endermen don't like water, I don't know why they wouldn't dodge it.

Endermen are harmed by water, they view it as a threat.

Endermen also view projectiles as threats, hence their teleportation, however, this teleportation only applies to what would be considered projectiles. Making it a gameplay mechanic.

and the same could be said for flowing lava, intentionally viscous and slow in the overworld as it is less viscous in the nether. So do we give the Enderman Below Average Human reaction speeds for implementing that?

A misunderstanding of my argument, it is not that I am attempting to push for much lower ratings, presenting evidence that points to what you want to push as a gameplay mechanic and will result in inconsistency if scaled.

Arguing that something sounds infeasible because it sounds too low is an argument from incredulity.

I'm not upgrading the whole verse. In fact, I'm only upgrading a small portion while downgrading the rest. As shown in the original post's "Potential Arguments", I've thought about numerous devil's advocate scenarios in my head. I did take a long and slow time to think about this. I have discord links showing this thread in the making since October. This wasn't rushed.

The time it took you does not matter to me, if I view it as flawed, that's just how it is. I'm sorry you spent a long time on something that I cannot reasonably accept in good faith.

There's no sort of dodging animation at all in the game. Using your very logic to try to counteract the endermen argument, all mobs would be scaled to below average human combat speeds for not avoiding slowly incoming lava. Below Average Human combat speeds for everyone then?

Again, argument from incredulity. This is also not the main premise of my argument you are tackling here.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

A misunderstanding of my argument, it is not that I am attempting to push for much lower ratings, presenting evidence that points to what you want to push as a gameplay mechanic and will result in inconsistency if scaled.

Arguing that something sounds infeasible because it sounds too low is an argument from incredulity.

It's actually infeasible for being too low because it's also inconsistent with the rest. The Endermen, both in-game and backed up by in-lore statements, are considered to teleport in order to dodge projectiles. The fact that you can swing a sword, shoot, swing, shoot, continuously and not land a single one of the arrows further proves that Endermen are consistently this fast, so mobs that can hit Endermen scale. The only inconsistent argument here is the use of game mechanics since mobs don't have a dodge ability as they just beeline towards their opponent.

The time it took you does not matter to me, if I view it as flawed, that's just how it is. I'm sorry you spent a long time on something that I cannot reasonably accept in good faith.

What I was responding to was the fact that you implied that I didn't think about contradictions beforehand, I was just stating otherwise, and time spent wasn't even my main point there.

 

[Abstractions]

It's actually infeasible for being too low because it's also inconsistent with the rest. The Endermen, both in-game and backed up by in-lore statements, are considered to teleport in order to dodge projectiles. The fact that you can swing a sword, shoot, swing, shoot, continuously and not land a single one of the arrows further proves that Endermen are consistently this fast, so mobs that can hit Endermen scale. The only inconsistent argument here is the use of game mechanics since mobs don't have a dodge ability as they just beeline towards their opponent.

The inconsistencies with the positive outweigh those with the negative, and again, my argument wasn't to apply Below Human speeds. Arguing against that isn't tackling my argument and is just arguing from incredulity.

Any mob that is not a Skeleton or Blaze can strike an Enderman, why? Because they lack projectiles. If an Enderman cannot dodge flowing water despite viewing that very thing as a threat (See the rain), that is a sign that it has a game mechanic triggered solely on projectiles. Attempting to scale this to every other mob that can logically strike the Player or the Enderman is dishonest and inconsistent.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Most mobs do not canonically even attack an Enderman without mods to the game. In the Upgrade section of my post are the only mobs in the game that can actually engage in hostile interactions with the Enderman.

You say the inconsistencies are outweighed but all of your inconsistencies involve game mechanics. Endermen see lava and fire as a threat just as much as rain, even teleporting sporadically when on fire. So with that in mind, using water block updates as proof of inconsistency is in the same boat of using lava block updates.
And if we're being real here, these things don't "flow" in Minecraft, they just pop there. There's no motion to react to in the first place because it's literally nothing but block updates.

How do game mechanics outweigh intentional gameplay design + lore?

 

[Abstractions]

Most mobs do not canonically even attack an Enderman without mods to the game. In the Upgrade section of my post are the only mobs in the game that can actually engage in hostile interactions with the Enderman.

You seemed to ignore the Vindicator, which can engage an Enderman (and most likely kill) without mods. (Not that this actually matters)

Even then, all mobs can interact with and attack the player, thus the scaling continues, it's just a shifted goalpost.

You say the inconsistencies are outweighed but all of your inconsistencies involve game mechanics. Endermen see lava and fire as a threat just as much as rain, even teleporting sporadically when on fire. So with that in mind, using water block updates as proof of inconsistency is in the same boat of using lava block updates.
And if we're being real here, these things don't "flow" in Minecraft, they just pop there. There's no motion to react to in the first place because it's literally nothing but block updates.

Placing a source block of either and having it flow outwards can result in Endermen being struck by it. Again, comparing lava and water doesn't debunk my argument.

How do game mechanics outweigh intentional gameplay design + lore?

Why do game mechanics that create inconsistencies outweigh other gameplay mechanics?

Is it not also intentional gameplay design for arrows to bounce off Endermen should they have no block to teleport to? They logically don't even need to dodge these arrows because the game physically cannot allow them to be hit by them. Why are you not arguing for damage resistance for this very same thought?

 

[FinePoint]

Endermen are only hit by the player and other mobs because of their rage, they rush directly at the enemy. They're actually immune to arrows, in addition to appearing to dodge them ingame, this can be seen if you do the same test as in the video, but with one block, the arrows simply pass through them. Lava, water, and rain causes them to teleport as soon as they take damage.

Clearly, the intention is to display them as behaving as stated in the Beastiary, teleporting at the first instance of danger, the nuances can be explained away by balancing game mechanics. Nobody that knows what an Enderman is should be arguing they don't try to teleport away from danger, the problem they have with this revision is the scaling, and I completely agree.

Since you care about lore so much, consider the enemies they fight outside of special usually specifically set-up circumstances: endermites, players, and iron golems. Players enrage the endermen when they look at them, endermites enrage the endermen, and given they make the same rage animation when anything attacks them, this seems to be their consistent emotion against any living creature that damages them.

This rage causes them to charge directly at the enemy, only teleporting sometimes to try and get behind them, but even then they just charge again from a different angle. This is why they are able to hit the enderman, not because they are just as fast, that would contradict a lot of other lore, such as the natural slowness of an iron golem.

Anyone can impale a charging bull with a spear, nobody is as fast. That should just be common sense.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

You seemed to ignore the Vindicator, which can engage an Enderman (and most likely kill) without mods. (Not that this actually matters)

I actually wasn't intentionally ignoring the vindicator, I stated "and any more, should people make valid arguments on why they should scale" and then asked again in a later comment for any additional mobs that has reason to scale.

Placing a source block of either and having it flow outwards can result in Endermen being struck by it. Again, comparing lava and fire doesn't debunk my argument.

"And if we're being real here, these things don't "flow" in Minecraft, they just pop there. There's no motion to react to in the first place because it's literally nothing but block updates." This argument still applies, as well as the lava argument because you're trying to use a low-end inconsistency that comes purely from game mechanics in order to call an intentional gameplay design feat as an inconsistency.

Why do game mechanics that create inconsistencies outweigh other gameplay mechanics?

Is it not also intentional gameplay design for arrows to bounce off Endermen should they have no block to teleport to? They logically don't even need to dodge these arrows because the game physically cannot allow them to be hit by them. Why are you not arguing for damage resistance for this very same thought?

Intentionally being designed to dodge arrows and intentionally being stated by lore that they dodge arrows solidifies the idea that they react to arrows. Arguing for damage resistance would be arguing purely based on Game Mechanics when the entire intent by the developers is to make Endermen dodge arrows.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Endermen are only hit by the player and other mobs because of their rage, they rush directly at the enemy. They're actually immune to arrows, in addition to appearing to dodge them ingame, this can be seen if you do the same test as in the video, but with one block, the arrows simply pass through them. Lava, water, and rain causes them to teleport as soon as they take damage.

Clearly, the intention is to display them as behaving as stated in the Beastiary, teleporting at the first instance of danger, the nuances can be explained away by balancing game mechanics. Nobody that knows what an Enderman is should be arguing they don't try to teleport away from danger, the problem they have with this revision is the scaling, and I completely agree.

Since you care about lore so much, consider the enemies they fight outside of special usually specifically set-up circumstances: endermites, players, and iron golems. Players enrage the endermen when they look at them, endermites enrage the endermen, and given they make the same rage animation when anything attacks them, this seems to be their consistent emotion against any living creature that damages them.

This rage causes them to charge directly at the enemy, only teleporting sometimes to try and get behind them, but even then they just charge again from a different angle. This is why they are able to hit the enderman, not because they are just as fast, that would contradict a lot of other lore, such as the natural slowness of an iron golem.

Anyone can impale a charging bull with a spear, nobody is as fast. That should just be common sense.

Literally any and every land mob in the game that has hostile intentions towards the other has some variance of the AI that says 'walk directly towards the opponent'. This is not just an enderman thing, but just the way the game is coded entirely.

You talk about caring about lore but your entire argument against it is about game mechanics.

 

[FinePoint]

Literally any and every land mob in the game that has hostile intentions towards the other has some variance of the AI that says 'walk directly towards the opponent'. This is not just an enderman thing, but just the way the game is coded entirely.

You talk about caring about lore but your entire argument against it is about game mechanics.

Are you saying an enderman's enraged state isn't part of the lore?

 

[Abstractions]

"And if we're being real here, these things don't "flow" in Minecraft, they just pop there. There's no motion to react to in the first place because it's literally nothing but block updates." This argument still applies, as well as the lava argument because you're trying to use a low-end inconsistency that comes purely from game mechanics in order to call an intentional gameplay design feat as an inconsistency.

"These things flow but they don't actually flow."

You cannot use gameplay mechanics to argue for the validity of gameplay mechanics.

Intentionally being designed to dodge arrows and intentionally being stated by lore that they dodge arrows solidifies the idea that they react to arrows. Arguing for damage resistance would be arguing purely based on Game Mechanics when the entire intent by the developers is to make Endermen dodge arrows.

They were also intentionally designed to not take damage by arrows at all. You cannot use that as a valid argument because that can be applied to anything.

"Water flowing onto Endermen and hurting them is intentional design, water bucket thrown into lava and burning up is intentional design."

Refer to above.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Are you saying an enderman's enraged state isn't part of the lore?

I'm not saying it isn't part of the lore, I'm saying what you're implementing is literally nothing related to the lore. That same enraged enderman will still dodge an arrow you fire at it regardless, so the point is moot.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

You cannot use gameplay mechanics to argue for the validity of gameplay mechanics.

I use lore that backs up gameplay so this kind of argument doesn't work

They were also intentionally designed to not take damage by arrows at all. You cannot use that as a valid argument because that can be applied to anything.

refer to above

 

[Abstractions]

I use lore that backs up gameplay so this kind of doesn't work

And I humbly point you back to the start of the argument.

 

[FinePoint]

I use lore that backs up gameplay so this kind of doesn't work

I don't even words for this.

Besides, if you're arguing that the reason they hit eachother is because the game is coded poorly, or simply, then doesn't that dismantle your own argument that they would scale via hitting? You can't have it both ways, it seems to me like you care more about winning the argument than you do about being right.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

I don't even words for this.

Besides, if you're arguing that the reason they hit eachother is because the game is coded poorly, or simply, then doesn't that dismantle your own argument that they would scale via hitting? You can't have it both ways, it seems to me like you care more about winning the argument than you do about being right.

These are two completely different topics. You're talking about Endermen beelining towards the opponent, not who scales to who in speed. What part of that has anything to do with just arguing to be right?

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

And I humbly point you back to the start of the argument.

Your first comment here has nothing specifically pointing to this argument in particular, it's just forcing a circle.

 

[FinePoint]

These are two completely different topics. You're talking about Endermen beelining towards the opponent, not who scales to who in speed. What part of that has anything to do with just arguing to be right?

The endermen beelining towards opponents is supported directly by the lore, which would explain how they can be hit while being faster.

The fact that endermen become enraged is not debatable. This refutes your original argument that all mobs must be as fast as an enderman, WITH LORE SUPPORT, let alone that it could be dismissed as game mechanics. What more do you want? In what way does the fact that other mobs have aggressive A.I. refute this at all?

 

[Abstractions]

Your first comment here has nothing specifically pointing to this argument in particular, it's just forcing a circle.

"So in order to justify this upgrade, you need to explain why this scaling isn't a inconsistency in order for me to accept this at all in good faith."

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

The endermen beelining towards opponents is supported directly by the lore, which would explain how they can be hit while being faster.

The fact that endermen become enraged is not debatable. This refutes your original argument that all mobs must be as fast as an enderman, WITH LORE SUPPORT, let alone that it could be dismissed as game mechanics. What more do you want? In what way does the fact that other mobs have aggressive A.I. refute this at all?

I think you forgot that I countered this argument with this, which you haven't responded to.

I'm not saying it isn't part of the lore, I'm saying what you're implementing is literally nothing related to the lore. That same enraged enderman will still dodge an arrow you fire at it regardless, so the point is moot.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

"So in order to justify this upgrade, you need to explain why this scaling isn't a inconsistency in order for me to accept this at all in good faith."

And I've explained that the biggest inconsistencies are just misconstrued ideas of game mechanics. That's what we've been debating about.

 

[FinePoint]

I'm not saying it isn't part of the lore, I'm saying what you're implementing is literally nothing related to the lore.

This is nonsense.

That same enraged enderman will still dodge an arrow you fire at it regardless, so the point is moot.

Yes, and that same enderman is literally invincible to arrows. Obviously they went a bit overboard with the arrow mechanic, that doesn't mean we just ignore the established lore.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

This is nonsense.

Your following statement is calling them invincible to arrows based off of game mechanics rather than lore. How is this nonsense?

This is nonsense.

Yes, and that same enderman is literally invincible to arrows. Obviously they went a bit overboard with the arrow mechanic, that doesn't mean we just ignore the established lore.

The established lore says they dodge arrows... I'm honestly confused at how you're not getting this.

 

[FinePoint]

Your following statement is calling them invincible to arrows based off of game mechanics rather than lore. How is this nonsense?

Are you trolling? I was explaining how your argument was based off game mechanics, by reiterating that the projectile mechanic is very absolute, and not a good indicator of their speed or abilities beyond reinforcing that they can dodge arrows in general via teleportation.

The established lore says they dodge arrows... I'm honestly confused at how you're not getting this.

Yes, it does. I didn't say it didn't, and I've already said I agree that they're fast enough to dodge arrows, but the lore also says that they become enraged. In this enraged state, we see them abandon a lot of their caution. Maybe they can dodge an arrow mid-combat too, who cares? It doesn't disprove the fact that they literally charge headlong into their enemy's melee range.

If anything, it seems like projectile dodging is simply a special case.

 

[Abstractions]

And I've explained that the biggest inconsistencies are just misconstrued ideas of game mechanics. That's what we've been debating about.

And we've established you cannot justify game mechanics with other game mechanics, you haven't changed my perception on the ordeal here.

Another inconsistency one could bring up besides the mobs themselves striking Endermen but the Ender Dragon herself as the mobestiary acknowledges that bringing a bow is a must due to how high the dragon flies.

Say we go with the scaling and place the Ender Dragon above the Endermen, why would arrows be of utmost importance when she can react to and dodge arrows to such a degree that hitting her would be impossible as displayed with those below her?

This simple form of scaling has actual lore inconsistency and applying it to the pages would be dishonest.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Are you trolling? I was explaining how your argument was based off game mechanics, by reiterating that the projectile mechanic is very absolute, and not a good indicator of their speed or abilities beyond reinforcing that they can dodge arrows in general via teleportation.

Why would you claim I went out of my way to make such a detailed thread solely for the point of trolling? Did you forget that lore backs up this statement? I'm not just trying to upgrade solely on game mechanics here.

Yes, it does. I didn't say it didn't, and I've already said I agree that they're fast enough to dodge arrows, but the lore also says that they become enraged. In this enraged state, we see them abandon a lot of their caution. Maybe they can dodge an arrow mid-combat too, who cares? It doesn't disprove the fact that they literally charge headlong into their enemy's melee range.

If anything, it seems like projectile dodging is simply a special case.

except their same "rage state" is the one that still dodges arrows. And what caution do you honestly think they show in the game before getting enraged to begin with? When the game intentionally makes them teleport from arrows and the lore says that they dodge arrows, the fact that your response is "projectile dodging is a special case" is just Occam's Razor.

 

[FinePoint]

Why would you claim I went out of my way to make such a detailed thread solely for the point of trolling? Did you forget that lore backs up this statement? I'm not just trying to upgrade solely on game mechanics here.

except their same "rage state" is the one that still dodges arrows. And what caution do you honestly think they show in the game before getting enraged to begin with? When the game intentionally makes them teleport from arrows and the lore says that they dodge arrows, the fact that your response is "projectile dodging is a special case" is just Occam's Razor.

I meant a special speed case, or perhaps that projectiles cause them to teleport automatically.

 

[FinePoint]

Why would you claim I went out of my way to make such a detailed thread solely for the point of trolling?

You're right though, sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I was getting a bit too frustrated.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

And we've established you cannot justify game mechanics with other game mechanics, you haven't changed my perception on the ordeal here.

I don't understand why you are continuing to say I'm justifying game mechanics with other game mechanics when I'm justifying gameplay backed up by lore. Please, honestly explain to me how I am doing this because I am legitimately not seeing how you still believe this.

Another inconsistency one could bring up besides the mobs themselves striking Endermen but the Ender Dragon herself as the mobestiary acknowledges that bringing a bow is a must due to how high the dragon flies.


Say we go with the scaling and place the Ender Dragon above the Endermen, why would arrows be of outmost importance when she can react to and dodge arrows to such a degree that hitting her would be impossible as displayed with those below her?

Other than the Ender Dragon's massive size making an easier target to hit? The Ender Dragon isn't over there teleporting around like the Enderman if that's what you're wanting to see here. It's not like the game programs her to have a dodge mechanic for this, and if we're being real, such a height to dodge wouldn't even need human level reaction speeds if we're being real here. Even with the depiction of mobs fighting each other alone, they do not dodge attacks. By your logic they can't even scale to themselves. Because you want to push for mobs to dodge so much you are forgetting that the combat limitations are the textbook definition of game mechanics.

Slightly off topic here, but I'm not understanding why only Minecraft ever gets this exceedingly strict treatment whenever a CRT is made, but many other video game characters who get hit by supposedly slower attacks can be rated as far higher by scaling alone. Even comic peak human characters get massively hypersonic ratings and the likes despite them on several cases being tagged by gunfire that they're supposedly hundreds of times faster than as well as statements of just being peak human.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

I meant a special speed case, or perhaps that projectiles cause them to teleport automatically.

That's the thing, that's the Occam's Razor here. The only way to come to this conclusion is to make the assumption that the two speeds are separate, even though nothing implies that, and if anything, the lore leans towards the side of the speed being the same.

 

[FinePoint]

That's the thing, that's the Occam's Razor here. The only way to come to this conclusion is to make the assumption that the two speeds are separate, even though nothing implies that, and if anything, the lore leans towards the side of the speed being the same.

The real problem with scaling every mob's speed to the enderman is because the other mobs already have established speeds which are lower than the enderman. I don't think Mojang, Notch, nor Microsoft realistically intended for every mob to be the same speed as the enderman, it's meant to be relatively fast within its verse. For these reasons, the evidence has to be substantial, and objective. There's simply too much that could be game mechanics and/or explained other ways to apply such a universal buff.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

The real problem with scaling every mob's speed to the enderman is because the other mobs already have established speeds which are lower than the enderman. I don't think Mojang, Notch, nor Microsoft realistically intended for every mob to be the same speed as the enderman, it's meant to be relatively fast within its verse. For these reasons, the evidence has to be substantial, and objective. There's simply too much that could be game mechanics and/or explained other ways to apply such a universal buff.

The speed you are referring to is travel speed, not combat speed. And my proposal wasn't going under the idea that every mob would scale, only those who can and do fight enderman (which, Mojang did intend for those mobs to be able to fight endermen), leaving majority of the cast downgraded.

I would not have made this thread if everything about this was game mechanics. Not only was this backed up by lore statements itself, but this was always what the Minecraft verse scaled to since the very beginning, this thread was made solely for updating numbers based on what was originally agreed upon in older threads but never implemented.

 

[Moritzva]

For reference, I still agree with Abstractions thoroughly.