Minecraft has been Massively Hypersonic for way too long and shouldn't be

[Mr. Bambu]

1. ?

2. I'm not saying Skeleton is equal to Steve lol what is this Strawman

3. No it isn't? It is a pure fact that Endermen only have this reaction to projectiles like arrows. It is passive dodging of arrows, not MHS speed.

4. We're not discussing canonocity, none of this is canon aside from the fact that it exists in game. The fact of the matter is, Enderman passively teleports away when he is about to be hit by an arrow. That's all the ability is. There's no need to wank it to "MHS speed!" when that isn't the case. Enderman is struck by sword swings all the time. The outlier ness is undeniable.

 

[Davidliteral]

Here you should learn: Parry vs Reflex - What's the difference?

Why? Minecraft characters reflexes is base on travel/transportation and reaction/combat speed is base on parrying/blocking/attacking.

Also Enderman even with auto-dodging they can't dodge lightning in-game.

Lightning is anti-feat to Auto-Dodging anyway.

What is your point anyway?

This would be a loop even you deny MHS no matter how carefree or hard you try though.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. Irrelevant to my argument.

2. That isn't proper English but if I'm understanding you right, you're again addressing different things.

3. Yes, because their auto-dodging only seems to work with arrows. They're even hit by water before they immediately "ohshit" and teleport away.

4. No it isn't.

5. My point is that Endermen dodging arrows is not a feat of speed but rather a passive ability to instinctively dodge specifically arrows, for whatever reason.

6. What even does this mean.

 

[Davidliteral]

1. ?
2. I'm not saying Skeleton is equal to Steve lol what is this Strawman

3. No it isn't? It is a pure fact that Endermen only have this reaction to projectiles like arrows. It is passive dodging of arrows, not MHS speed.

4. We're not discussing canonocity, none of this is canon aside from the fact that it exists in game. The fact of the matter is, Enderman passively teleports away when he is about to be hit by an arrow. That's all the ability is. There's no need to wank it to "MHS speed!" when that isn't the case. Enderman is struck by sword swings all the time. The outlier ness is undeniable.

1.as dasdasdasd

2. if characters are same strength then they should be able to pull charged-bow same as Steve but not and never.

3. Lightning in-game has a word on u.

4. It's not that I'm denying in-game anyway. It's just inconsistent.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. okay

2. okay, still not the discussion I'm addressing

3. what

4. Yes, MHS speed is hugely inconsistent. I've also come to the conclusion that I'm being trolled. Anyone else have viable commentary on this?

 

[Davidliteral]

1. Irrelevant to my argument.
2. That isn't proper English but if I'm understanding you right, you're again addressing different things.

3. Yes, because their auto-dodging only seems to work with arrows. They're even hit by water before they immediately "ohshit" and teleport away.

4. No it isn't.

5. My point is that Endermen dodging arrows is not a feat of speed but rather a passive ability to instinctively dodge specifically arrows, for whatever reason.

6. What even does this mean.

1. asdjkbasdkbasjkdbasdjk your reply it's not even argument tho

2. They aren't different things. If character A lifting strength is stronger than character B but character A can't do what character B can.

>Steve could pull a bow stronger than Skeleton thus they cannot be equal

>Scaling Steve's lifting strength to everything is flawed.

3. You literally accepted lightning is instant base on your answer

4. They do. There's difference between attacking and mining speed.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mand21/Minecraft_Recalced

it's said 5-7 hits via mining speed while attacking is faster which is inconsistent to logic of vsb canonicity again.

5. like I said before Lightning is opposed to that idea

6. Well all my claims are carefully reviewed and I found all "loop" and I know what is inconsistent to my logics so come on fight me I could keep going. lol

 

[Davidliteral]

use freaking quote it'd be confusing if you don't

 

[Davidliteral]

1. okay
2. okay, still not the discussion I'm addressing

3. what

4. Yes, MHS speed is hugely inconsistent. I've also come to the conclusion that I'm being trolled. Anyone else have viable commentary on this?

1.asukdhasuid

2.^my reply above

3.it means Lightning is oppose to that idea tho

4. I don't mean MHS. I'm saying auto-dodging and pixel scaling are inconsistent.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Why do you keep bringing Steve and Skeleton into an argument over Enderma.

Lightning isn't instantly gone, what even is your point?

No, your claims aren't carefully reviewed, they're just randomly jumbled statements with varying relevance to this debate.

The fact of the matter is Enderman isntant dodges projectiles. It cannot be hit by them, is not aggro'd by them, and is not shown to even be aware of them and continues on its merry way if attacked with one. MHS is wank. End of story.

 

[Davidliteral]

Why do you keep bringing Steve and Skeleton into an argument over Enderma.
Lightning isn't instantly gone, what even is your point?

No, your claims aren't carefully reviewed, they're just randomly jumbled statements with varying relevance to this debate.

The fact of the matter is Enderman isntant dodges projectiles. It cannot be hit by them, is not aggro'd by them, and is not shown to even be aware of them and continues on its merry way if attacked with one. MHS is wank. End of story.

1. it's not for Enderman it's a counter to your "Minecraft characters can feasibly dodge arrows" comment.

2. I never said Lightning does instantly disappear tho also I'm getting confused because you don't use quote

3. reviewed by me not you or anyone (probably I forgot add "by me")

4. "The fact of the matter is Enderman isntant dodges projectiles. It cannot be hit by them,"

Like I said before I'm not denying Enderman can't be hit by an arrow.

"is not shown to even be aware of them and continues on its merry way if attacked with one. way if attacked with one" you do realised that's just gameplay right? that's just irrelevant to reaction speed and that logic could be use to downplay a character tho.

"MHS is wank. End of story."

let me translate your implying: "I disagree with MHS and that's all that is"

also saying a "period" or "end of story" is just like saying "I will not be swayed by any arguments, so don't even bring them up."

while me keep arguing until you understand my logic.

here's the deal of my opinion:

I am against to auto-dodging as ability, pixel scaling, "instant" non-canon, and travel equal reaction speed.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I am not swayed by your arguments. At all. That is what I am saying.

And how is pixel scaling inconsistent? And auto-dodging? What do you mean by this?

 

[Davidliteral]

And how is pixel scaling inconsistent? And auto-dodging? What do you mean by this?

"The minimal distance used in the game are pixels"
Utter lie. Pixels are only used as an approximate distance by fans, often for graphical reasons. The decimals of coordinates are the ones used for literally every non-graphical measurements. Which is why I'm against the use of pixels to scale in-game things for most games in general, not just MC.

Also yes, Minecraft arrows do move at 100 m/s at top speed. Requires optimal angle and all but feasible.

The argument that "no other monster" can dodge those is flawed. No other monsters bother to dodge in the game, not even obvious and slow hits.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean actual pixel scaling, not using in game pixels. The pixel scaling used by the site, which is a commonly accepted thing and literally the only tool we have for these matters.

Yes. Arrows move at 100 m/s. I literally never argued this. Other monsters can certainly dodge them.

This has nothing to do with the fact that Endermen auto-dodging is not a speed feat at all.

 

[Davidliteral]

I mean actual pixel scaling, not using in game pixels. The pixel scaling used by the site, which is a commonly accepted thing and literally the only tool we have for these matters.

(facepalm) px-scaling for in-game is inaccurate since:

>Minecraft gamepedia already had accurate measurement for time and distance. Why bother using px-scaling?

>Minecraft is a sandbox game and not an animation.

"Yes. Arrows move at 100 m/s. I literally never argued this. Other monsters can certainly dodge them. "

Fact check: @Saik says "No other monsters bother to dodge in the game, not even obvious and slow hits."

"This has nothing to do with the fact that Endermen auto-dodging is not a speed feat at all."

tell that to @Saik but lol all I could say I am against to auto-dodging as ability, pixel scaling, "instant" non-canon, and travel equal reaction speed because of being imbalance and inconsistent through IRL and Minecraft logic.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

CAN dodge and DO dodge are different things, I'm beginning to see that you aren't bothering to understand what I'm trying to tell you.

Pixel scaling is not inaccurate if you know the size of an object, that's how it works, but again, this is 100% irrelevant to my point lol.

I... you aren't even debating right now. You're just spewing other arguments at me. I'll wait for someone to actually try to prove that Enderman is somehow dodging this attack actively.

 

[Davidliteral]

I... you aren't even debating right now. You're just spewing other arguments at me. I'll wait for someone to actually try to prove that Enderman is somehow dodging this attack actively.

"you aren't even debating right now." Utter lie.

"You're just spewing other arguments at me." And. That's actually my points you just never bother to understand my logic though.

"I'm beginning to see that you aren't bothering to understand what I'm trying to tell you." Are you sure about that? sure you do but stop assuming that's not even true though.



... You can see that image right? ;^)

Well you see when I started to get serious it gets myself motivating to write a debunk. You see all my claims has connections and carefully reviewed the loops, logics, and inconsistency by me. I'm not proud of anything nor proud on my statements but I'm a guy cogitated on the balance of Minecraft mechanics to IRL logics and anything that game mechanics is consistent to other game mechanics have IRL logics consistency. From what I see on your claims are flawed. I could keep arguing until you've understood logics behind my claims and why I'm against their ideas. Just you wait Mr. B i will drop a N U K E which is I already said that word to @Saik. I will debunk them.

Have a nice day.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah this is a troll. Does anyone have an actual argument in favor of Enderman or?

 

[Davidliteral]

You think I'm dumb? LOL. Auto-dodging as an ability is just an outlier and Teleportation equal to reaction speed is the exact term that was consistent to IRL logic.

Recently I tried px scaling and the result was MHS. The reaction speed is almost and consistent to @Saik's calc. Also I finally found out how Enderman teleportation mechanics fully works. From my observation there's some interaction mechanics were being ignored by everybody else. Well if I post the calc will be a support to @Saik's calc. And finally the last thing i would do is to write the debunk list to debunk your claims.

Edit: btw I'm not ready to post my proofs.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. That's not what an outlier is, although I agree that MHS speed is absolutely an outlier.

2. This whole point doesn't matter, it's just saying you redid the same thing Saik did, which was false from a very basic point of view.

3. Okay that doesn't mean much.

 

[Davidliteral]

1. Subsonic is just a downplay and inconsistent to reaction/combat speed. Also stop saying it's "wank" because "I disagree" and you haven't stated your claims how MHS is an outlier though. Also Reflexes and Parrying/Attacking are different and aren't the same thing on Minecraft.

2. "This whole point doesn't matter" you just don't bother to understand what I'm trying to tell you. I didn't redid what @Saik did. Stop assuming that's not even true it's pretty offensive. Although I disagree with pixel-scaling and I agree with @Saik's smallest unit of measure in-game measurement. (I don't mean the pixel scaling used by the site.)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. No, it is actually much more consistent than assuming one monster is MHS and everyone else who has Subsonic reaction showings should scale. That's the outlier here. And how? Read what an outlier is. MHS is far above literally everything in the verse except for this one calculation, which is based on many false assumptions.

2. Again, it doesn't, it is just you repeating the steps that caused this problem. I understand that, but it doesn't make it relevant. I really don't care about how you choose to scale for Minecraft calcs, all that matters is that this calc is disregared for the several fairly obvious reasons already presented.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Minecraft is supersonic

Endermen can't dodge ghast fireballs making it less than Mach 1 perhaps subsonic+ so the other casual mobs would be subsonic.

Ghast can dodge their own fireballs making them sonic speed.

The wither and Ender dragon are truly super sonic(the both can easily dodge fireballs)

Making our character alas supersonic

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Dodging or just happening to move from is different, but yes, this is, oddly enough, far more reasonable than making everything MHS for reactions.

 

[Davidliteral]

Not really it's just PIS/CIS thus not applicable. (rolls eyes)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"rolls eyes'

oh boy.

"PIS/CIS"

no. in fact the only arguable case here is MHS but you refuse to acknowledge that.

carry on.

 

[Davidliteral]

You claim I "don't acknowledge that". You keep accusing me for being wrong "That's the outlier here. And how? Read what an outlier is." You think I'm dumb? and you suddenly stated "I really don't care about how you choose to scale for Minecraft calcs," you obviously admitted at the end you're just faking innocent like it was nothing, and stop acting perfect like subsonic is consistent actually NO, cut the act dude, and stop making my arguments sound like a lie. You claim it was a "wank" just because you disagree also "I understand that, but it doesn't make it relevant." Then stop accusing it like "it's not worth it". Don't get cocky cuz I could debunk your FLAWED ASSUMPTIONS. Period. It doesn't bother me even you mock my comments and claims since it already happened to me many times on vsb. You think I'd lie? you think I'd say immediately my reasons? Unfortunately I won't release my proofs, evidences, reasons, statements, arguments, or informations (What am I? A dictionary, nope), in short I won't counter your arguments (because it's just a stepping stone for me) until I decided to. So FAM shut up and get out of my WAE

 

[Davidliteral]

no. in fact the only arguable case here is MHS but you refuse to acknowledge that.

No. Your the one who refuse to acknowledge but the fact that you believe Fireballs is consistent. Stop downplaying. GET OUT OF MY WAE

Edit: Although you think the puns isn't serious? I won't use slur words cuz @Antvasima posted the news though. (try to remove the puns and change it to slur words that's the real msg)

 

[ALRF]

Quality debating at its finest

 

[Davidliteral]

it's not perfect tho cuz everything else are imperfect

debate is nothing more than group work analysis

there's only belief and reasoning

 

[Apatheticskell]

I'll be honest we should down play the regular Minecraft mobs to wall level and the weaker more necraft mobs like silverfish to average/peak level.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm just gonna let this thread become the dumpster fire it has been trying to become for awhile because at this point I just really don't have anything to say that hasn't been said lol.

TL;DR, MHS is wrong due to utlier-ness and flat out not being a speed feat. Cheers.

 

[Apatheticskell]

I'm just gonna let this thread become the dumpster fire it has been trying to become for awhile because at this point I just really don't have anything to say that hasn't been said lol.

TL;DR, MHS is wrong due to utlier-ness and flat out not being a speed feat. Cheers.

Agreed

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps I should close this thread then?

 

[Apatheticskell]

DO IT

 

[Apatheticskell]

What?

 

[Antvasima]

Let's wait to see what Mr. Bambu thinks.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Let's wait to see what Mr. Bambu thinks.

But... he already said what he thinks, no?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.