Minecraft Addition: Creative Mode

[FinePoint]

This is a proposal which was rejected in the past under the assumption of "game mechanics" or "cheats." This is a decision I disagree with.
Firstly, Minecraft DOES have a cheat mode which is an option entirely separate from Creative Mode. Instead, Creative Mode is listed alongside other gamemode options for creating a new world, with no indication that it's less valid than Survival Mode.
With this in mind I'd like to propose that Creative Mode be added as a valid key for Steve/Alex.

I'd like to point out that this proposal still rejects certain proposals including: command blocks, console commands, structure blocks, and structure voids.
These things are NOT part of Creative Mode, only Cheat Mode, and should remain rejected.

The following is what Creative Mode actually does and how it may apply:
1.) The player no longer needs to eat, breathe, and is invulnerable except to Void damage. (Self-Sustenance (Type 1 & 2), Invulnerability)
2.) The player gains Superman-esque omnidirectional flight up to 10.92m/s. (True Flight)
3.) The player may create blocks, mobs, and break any block instantly, even bedrock without drops. (Creation, Env Dest.)
- 3a) Note that the instant destruction applies only to blocks, and that mobs still require damage to die and still drop their loot. Therefore the AP of the Creative Mode Player would be the same as the regular player. Only their environmental destruction scales higher.
4.) All mobs are passive, and do not attempt to attack the player. The Ender Dragon is the only exception. (Unsure, perhaps Possibly Morality Manipulation)
- 4a) I say "Possibly" for this one because this ability might not stem from Steve specifically, and may instead be an aspect of the Creative World. The Ender Dragon by extension could have "Possibly resistance to Morality Manipulation."
5.) The player has increased range for placing, breaking, and attacking. (Extended Melee Range)

Agree (26): Damage3245, KieranH10, FinePoint, Expectro2000xxx, UltraChair, MrKerf, Rtxthegamer, DaReaperMan, XSOULOFCINDERX, Fastestthingalive50, NothingToDebateWith, MaybeWantsToEdit, azontr, ShockingShoes, Livinmeme, theultimate5105, EmilioRory10, Panggilsajabocah, AkumaNoHissatsu, GuildZero, It_is_i_wyatt, MinecraftHater2011, ZillertheBucko, Nierre, VegetaFan756, Ned_the_outer_god, Foxthefox1000

Neutral (8): Crabwhale, GyroNutz, MonkeyOfLife, EliminatorVenom, InfiniteDay, RethPo, Cosmic_King_of_SAO, y3p_owo, HammerStrikes219

Disagree (12): Moritzva, Everything12, Mr._Bambu, Promestein, DontTalkDT, Antvasima, Blackcurrant91, Darkmon_cns, Bobsican, Blackcurrant91, Gohanblanco217

I repeat: this is NOT CHEAT MODE, please stop bringing up things in cheat mode.
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Agreement for Creative Mode (As far as I understand):

Empirical Evidence for Creative Mode

• Minecraft has a mode specifically called "Cheat Mode" of which Creative Mode is NOT included, instead being presented as an option in the same exact menu as Survival Mode.
• An official guidebook exists which explains Creative Mode and presents it as a valid alternative way to play Minecraft.

Logical Argument for Creative Mode

• With the End Poem recently rejected, the general consensus seems to be that Minecraft has no definite story or canon. In this scenario, there's little-to-no basis to say that Creative Mode is less of a valid way to play Minecraft.
• It seems far more productive as an indexing wiki to cover both of the primary game modes, rather than just the more popular one. Why cover one of our bases when we could cover both of them?

Opposition and Response

• "Creative Mode is ultimately just a cheat mode. Allowing it as a key would open the door for cheats in other games, such as console commands, godmode, no-clip, etc."

- Ultimately, we would argue that it is not a cheat mode, and I vehemently do not support cheat mode in this game or any other. That's why I've so explicitly rejected everything related to Cheat Mode in this CRT, including console commands and the likes. If anybody ever tried to use this CRT as precedent for cheating in other games, I would personally go and tell the they're completely wrong myself. This is not a cheat mode, it is a different way to play. The "cheating" perspective originates from the mindset that Survival Mode is the primary way to play, but from Creative Mode's own perspective, the fact that monsters are no longer an issue is obviously just to facilitate building. The goal is no longer survival. The purpose of Creative Mode is not to create equipment and kill the Ender Dragon, that much should be obvious. Its goal is to facilitate the second half of Minecraft, which is being creative and creating something from your imagination. The fact that this goal isn't related to fighting is fine, we have plenty of puzzle games and kids shows on this wiki.

• "Survival Mode is still technically the default mode, and what is most commonly portrayed in media."

- Without evidence of an actual canon, this argument seems far too nit-picky to exclude an entire second half of the game. As an indexing site, we do our best to include any important information. The exception is if this information isn't considered part of the primary media, or ignored for inconsistency. With previous points discussed, I don't think either is the case here. Popularity is a non-argument. Our goal is not to index media as it's most popularly portrayed, but rather most accurately. Removing otherwise valid details is counter-productive to that.

• "This is near-impossible to scale, and is littered with game mechanics."

- Welcome to Minecraft. Survival Mode is also littered with game mechanics, as anyone who regularly participates in Minecraft revisions would tell you. As for scaling and indexing, I've already gone through extensive effort to determine exact additions in the OP. It is open for further discussion, and I disagree strongly that it's not possible to index for the same reasons Survival Mode isn't impossible to index.

What about Adventure Mode and Hardcore Mode?

• Adventure Mode is literally just Survival Mode minus breaking and placing blocks. Even if we did include it, it would barely change the profile. The only difference is we'd segment some of the abilities. For the sake of indexing, this is negligible. Hardcore Mode is technically a difficulty, and not a game mode. I would argue heavily this is game mechanics. If you don't know, Spectator Mode isn't its own mode, but is part of Hardcore Mode.
• We don't need to cover everything at once. This CRT is about Creative Mode, and trying to argue for these extra modes at the same time will only distract us. They can be discussed if the future if we must. I would recommend simply not talking about them in this current thread.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Denied on the basis of being based.

Anyway, neutral. People smarter than me gonna get here quick, and I want to see what the arguments are then.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

This is something I support, the creative mode of minecraft is so emblematic that is something needed. and because of the mention of the things that aren't included then I support it even more, now a question is, what tier would be? I can't remember if it do the same damage as Steve/Alex.

 

[UltraChair]

Not counting things like Command Blocks, it can probably be argued to be 5-C, since it can destroy bedrock, which can tank explosions up to Moon level iirc. But then again, Steve's attack damage remains the same, so it's a little confusing.

 

[MrKerf]

I think it previously was denied due to not being canon, but now the only in-game lore thing is not allowed to being used, so I guess I agree.

 

[FinePoint]

Not counting things like Command Blocks, it can probably be argued to be 5-C, since it can destroy bedrock, which can tank explosions up to Moon level iirc. But then again, Steve's attack damage remains the same, so it's a little confusing.

The blocks Creative Mode Steve destroys also have no drops regardless, which leads me to believe some sort of Hax is going on.

 

[MrKerf]

The blocks Creative Mode Steve destroys also have no drops regardless, which leads me to believe some sort of Hax is going on.

Or he destroys the entirety of it, with no ways of actually getting it.

 

[FinePoint]

Or he destroys the entirety of it, with no ways of actually getting it.

That would imply he's hitting blocks with 5-C force, but mobs with a lot less force. I suppose that is an assumption we could make.

 

[FinePoint]

Not counting things like Command Blocks, it can probably be argued to be 5-C, since it can destroy bedrock, which can tank explosions up to Moon level iirc. But then again, Steve's attack damage remains the same, so it's a little confusing.

5-C works. Wouldn't apply to durability/invulnerability though because the same testing used for Bedrock would show that Creative Mode players survive explosions with infinite radius. It seems to apply to physical and magic damage, but a lot of other hax would still work, notably Void Manipulation.

 

[MrKerf]

That would imply he's hitting blocks with 5-C force, but mobs with a lot less force. I suppose that is an assumption we could make.

He just likes animals.
Hax can work as well though. But to word it would be a challenge.

 

[FinePoint]

Agreed. Before we get too ahead of ourselves in crafting the key, we should get staff input on whether this is accepted to begin with.

 

[KieranH10]

With the Credits no longer used, I believe there's no longer any reason to assume Creative Mode isn't just as canon to the game as Survival Mode is. So I agree with this being added. The abilities also make sense.

The 5-C thing is a strange case, however iirc even with such explosions, I think that it's confirmed Bedrock would not break if such an explosion were to happen, since it literally has an indestructible tag on it in the code. So sure, it has a specified explosion resistance, but even surpassing this wouldn't bypass said tag, so I'm unsure whether that's valid.

There's also the fact that such an explosion can never be achieved in-game except with console commands, so likely isn't usable in the first place since we cant prove it without cheats.

Perhaps an Environmental Destruction tier could work?

 

[FinePoint]

The 5-C thing is a strange case

Conservatively, we could just scale their AP above End-Game Survival Mode, and assume the blocks are hax related. (EA?)

 

[MrKerf]

We can say that the fact that Bedrock is indestructible is a Game Mechanic.

 

[FinePoint]

We can say that the fact that Bedrock is indestructible is a Game Mechanic.

I find it more realistic that its durability is simply higher than End-Game pickaxes, which is why I say we scale Creative Mode just above that.

 

[MrKerf]

But we can't ignore Blast Resistance either.
And upscaling Creative from what 8-B? feels a bit wrong.

 

[KieranH10]

Conservatively, we could just scale their AP above End-Game Survival Mode, and assume the blocks are hax related. (EA?)

I believe Environmental Destruction would fit better personally.

We can say that the fact that Bedrock is indestructible is a Game Mechanic.

The feat itself is not valid though, it cannot be achieved in game afaik.

 

[FinePoint]

I believe Environmental Destruction would fit better personally.

The feat itself is not valid though, it cannot be achieved in game afaik.

That works for the blocks, but we still need to decide on an AP. I suppose via mob-testing it would actually be equal to End-Game player (But with increased range.)

Also, random thought: potion spam in Creative Mode is going to be OP in battles lol.

 

[KieranH10]

Yes, I believe that the Creative Mode key will likely be the same as the Survival Mode Key AP-wise. With a much higher Environmental Destruction value.

 

[FinePoint]

Also, random thought: potion spam in Creative Mode is going to be OP in battles lol.

Actually, should I add Danmaku for this? Don't have a scan rn, but anybody who knows what I'm talking about knows what I'm talking about.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I also just realized that Spawn Eggs would be super useful for setting up traps against certain opponents, like place a Creeper in a box you built around someone or something.

 

[TheGatememer]

I agree with the revisions. Not sure about what the AP would be though.

 

[Moritzva]

I disagree with Creative Mode. Adding keys based on sandbox/cheat mods is begging for a crisis, and any game with such a game mode would have some really weird keys as a result.

 

[KieranH10]

The difference is most games have lore or story to confirm that their Creative Mode would not be canon. Minecraft has nothing to suggest that Creative Mode is any less canon than Survival.

 

[FinePoint]

I disagree with Creative Mode. Adding keys based on sandbox/cheat mods is begging for a crisis, and any game with such a game mode would have some really weird keys as a result.

Minecraft is a sandbox game, with nothing to indicate that Creative Mode is any less valid than Survival Mode.
It DOES have a "Cheat Mode" which is explicitly stated as such which is purposefully absent from this proposal.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This seems fine

 

[FinePoint]

I also just realized that Spawn Eggs would be super useful for setting up traps against certain opponents, like place a Creeper in a box you built around someone or something.

Should I put you under agree or disagree?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Should I put you under agree or disagree?

I'm Neutral at the moment, but I'm leaning towards agreement.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

After thinking about it some more, put me down for agreement.

 

[RethPo]

Is getting an ap out of creative steve even really possible? He can break bedrock yet cant one shot mobs damaging them the same way he does in vanilla. Unless you say moon level against inanimate objects or something like that

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Is getting an ap out of creative steve even really possible? He can break bedrock yet cant one shot mobs damaging them the same way he does in vanilla. Unless you say moon level against inanimate objects or something like that

We have Environmental Destruction Ratings for a reason. Take a look at The Survivor (ARK: Survival Evolved)'s Profile and you'll see a good example of that.

 

[RethPo]

I see. Also i should bring up steve flies way faster if you hold ctrl in creative.

 

[FinePoint]

I see. Also i should bring up steve flies way faster if you hold ctrl in creative.

That is the speed I recorded in the post. What's your stance on the revision?

 

[Everything12]

Yeah, I'm also going no. Just because we say the poem is a metaphor doesn't make survival any less the "main story" and creative non-canon. It's still very much a cheat mode with the illogical of one-shotting bedrock yet can't do so to mobs. This isn't Environmental Destruction, Environmental Destruction is using chain reactions to destroy a greater area than the user's AP allows, it does not allow the user to negate durability like hax.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It's still very much a cheat mode with the illogical of one-shotting bedrock yet can't do so to mobs.

I wonder what that could be...

 

[FinePoint]

Yeah, I'm also going no. Just because we say the poem is a metaphor doesn't make survival any less the "main story" and creative non-canon. It's still very much a cheat mode with the illogical of one-shotting bedrock yet can't do so to mobs. This isn't Environmental Destruction, Environmental Destruction is using chain reactions to destroy a greater area than the user's AP allows, it does not allow the user to negate durability like hax.

By what basis do you say survival is the "main story" and creative is "non-canon", when there is no indication of this in-game which we accept?
Just because it's the first option? And if it's a cheat mode, then why is there a toggle literally called "cheat mode" under which Creative isn't placed?

 

[RethPo]

For me eh. Im neutral. Although if theres nothing to support commands like that or switching to creative mode to be cannon and not just a game mechanic then yeahhh probably shouldnt be added if thats the case

 

[FinePoint]

For me eh. Im neutral. Although if theres nothing to support commands like that or switching to creative mode to be cannon and not just a game mechanic then yeahhh probably shouldnt be added if thats the case

There's nothing about switching mid-game. Commands aren't part of this proposal. You decide if it's a creative world when you create it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Bump

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Agree with the op.