Mind hax and Soul Manipulation/Possession Usage vs Resistance.

[Eseseso]

For characters who possess both Manipulation and Resistance to either Mind Manipulation and/or Soul Manipulation/Possession, would their level of Manipulation be automatically equal to their level of Resistance and vice versa unless proven otherwise in-story?

 

[DiscipleOfTheAbyss]

No each must be determined separately based on evidence and feats.

 

[Eseseso]

For example, if X has both mind manipulation and mind manipulation resistance, but his resistance to stated to be at a certain unique level (like 4-dimensional or whatever levels of mindhax this wiki uses), would or would not his mind hax scale to that level if nothing in story contradicts it?

 

[DiscipleOfTheAbyss]

I guess its reasonable if there is no contradicting evidence to the statement.

 

[Excellence616]

For example, if X has both mind manipulation and mind manipulation resistance, but his resistance to stated to be at a certain unique level (like 4-dimensional or whatever levels of mindhax this wiki uses), would or would not his mind hax scale to that level if nothing in story contradicts it?

His level of hax should normally equal to his level of resistance only if the story says otherwise that is if he possess 4-D mind hax ability but a person with a lower mind hax abilities was able to control him then he would scale to his hax power level.

For example, Galactus can control Eternity but Galactus can be controlled by Purple Man. Purple Man is a has low level mind control but he can control Galactus, meaning Galactus has a weak mind control resistance despite having a mind hax ability to control a 1-A level being like Eternity.

 

[Eseseso]

His level of hax should normally equal to his level of resistance only if the story says otherwise that is if he possess 4-D mind hax ability but a person with a lower mind hax abilities was able to control him then he would scale to his hax power level.

You mean that his hax would equal his resistance unless proven otherwise?

Like if a character had tier 1 mindhax resistance, if they also had mindhax they'd scale to their resistance level unless proven otherwise?

For example, Galactus can control Eternity but Galactus can be controlled by Purple Man. Purple Man is a has low level mind control but he can control Galactus, meaning Galactus has a weak mind control resistance despite having a mind hax ability to control a 1-A level being like Eternity.

1. When did Purple Man mind-hax Galactus? And when did Galactus Mind-hax Eternity?

2. Tbf, Purple Man also messed with the mind of Genis-Veil, who resisted the mindhax of Moondragon, who matched Doctor Strange in mind-hax.

Also, Galactus resisted the mindhax of Odin, who matched Galactus in a telepathy battle.

 

[Excellence616]

You mean that his hax would equal his resistance unless proven otherwise?

Like if a character had tier 1 mindhax resistance, if they also had mindhax they'd scale to their resistance level unless proven otherwise?

Yes.

When did Purple Man mind-hax Galactus? And when did Galactus Mind-hax Eternity?

2. Tbf, Purple Man also messed with the mind of Genis-Veil, who resisted the mindhax of Moondragon, who matched Doctor Strange in mind-hax.

Also, Galactus resisted the mindhax of Odin, who matched Galactus in a telepathy battle

Just an example. It never happened.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think we typically try to index them seperately.

 

[Eseseso]

I think we typically try to index them seperately.

Even if nothing contradicts them being on the same level? And/or the character is known for both mind resistance and being a telepath?

I just assumed it was like how AP and durability almost always equal each other unless proven otherwise.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah unless stated otherwise I think the default assumption is to treat the potency of the ability and the resistance differently. If you resist 3 bajillon dimensional mind hax or whatever that doesn't automatically mean your own mind hax is that same level and vice versa.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Even if nothing contradicts them being on the same level? And/or the character is known for both mind resistance and being a telepath?

I just assumed it was like how AP and durability almost always equal each other unless proven otherwise.

Well, there can be case by case in mind as some UES often effect hax abilities such as stronger Spirit Energy/Essense buffs potency and resistance of various hax. Or some face value statements about characters becoming resist to mind hax due to being a stronger telepath. But for no explanation examples, we default to them being seperate.

 

[ImmortalDread]

This is bad argument, you can simply add any new detail and say "If nothing contradicts it, we can use it".

 

[Eseseso]

Well, there can be case by case in mind as some UES often effect hax abilities such as stronger Spirit Energy/Essense buffs potency and resistance of various hax. Or some face value statements about characters becoming resist to mind hax due to being a stronger telepath. But for no explanation examples, we default to them being seperate.

Well what about, say, Dr. Doom?

His willpower, which asides from giving him a stupidly high number of resistances, is the source of his incredible mind manipulation resistance, which has resisted mind hax from Onslaught and Emma Frost (the latter of whom he resisted easily) who both scale in mind hax to Xavier.

His will also seems to be what lets him use mind control, as shown when Doom says it's "the power of his mind" that allows him to use mind-control, and when he uses his willpower to mind control someone else by dominating their will with his own.

Thus, his willpower seems to be the source for both his mindhax and resistance, so would their levels of power be equal or separate?

Edit: It is stated that Doom's magic let's him control minds that are weaker than his (Invincible Iron Man #596), so his willpower (which powers his resistance to mindhax) does indeed determine his level of mindhax. Also, in Guardians of the Galaxy (2020) #14, the telepath Moondragon confirms that Doom's Ovoid Mind Transfer, aka his main but not his only form of mind hax (though it is also soul hax as his profile states if he wants to swap souls) is done through his sheer force of ego.

 

[ijl007]

It does make more sense to me to treat hax and resistance as separate until the story gives proof that they scale. Rather than treat them like they scale until the story gives proof of the negative.

AP and Dura are more consistently comparable in fiction. While Hax and Resist are very often inconsistent with each other.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well what about, say, Dr. Doom?

His willpower, which asides from giving him a stupidly high number of resistances, is the source of his incredible mind manipulation resistance, which has resisted mind hax from Onslaught and Emma Frost (the latter of whom he resisted easily) who both scale in mind hax to Xavier.

His will also seems to be what lets him use mind control, as shown when Doom says it's "the power of his mind" that allows him to use mind-control, and when he uses his willpower to mind control someone else by dominating their will with his own.

Thus, his willpower seems to be the source for both his mindhax and resistance, so would their levels of power be equal or separate?

In his case; I suppose it's fine.