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Mihawk downgrade

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CinCameron20

CinCameron20

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I originally advocated for "At least Low 6-B, possibly 6-B" for Mihawk in the last thread regarding this matter, but that currently seems to be contrary to what we should be scaling based off of. He currently gets his "6-B" rating based off of battling against Shanks many times in the past, and while this may have been applicable with the original statement that Shanks became a Yonko "12 years ago" (meaning this happened either just before or after meeting Luffy), it is no longer sensible to use this reasoning.

Shanks became a Yonko 6 years ago to current (6 years AFTER losing his arm and 4 years before showing he could clash with Whitebeard), and he got his arm chomped off by a sea-creature that East Blue Luffy could KO. Mihawk STOPPED dueling Shanks once he became a one-armed man, and this was 12 years ago. As such, Mihawk should not scale to someone who may or may not have been comparable to the level of power of clashing equally with Whitebeard.

Mihawk should lose any suggestion of being "6-B" due to this simply because we can't scale him to someone he hasn't dueled in >12 years, and the feats giving 6-B to the Yonko occurring quite literally 10 years after the fact with no support or statement implying characters back then were even close to that level of power.

Mihawk's Tier should now instead be listed as "Low 6-B" for the following reason: "He is the World's Strongest Swordsman, and has dueled the likes of Vista (One Piece), and pressured Jozu. It is stated that only the Shichibukai and Admirals have the power to stop the Yonko from colliding, implying Mihawk--a man with no crew of his own--should be somewhat comparable to the likes of the Admirals"
 
I agree with @Cin and would add he scales to Crocodile and Duffy (and Daz Bones and Luffy for what that's worth). You could also stipulate he should be comparable to other War-Lords (Jinbe, Law, Ace if he'd taken the position)
 
We shouldn't scale the Shichibukai to eachother, especially pre time-skip and Buggy due to inconsistencies. It was only recently stated (by an random citizen but later in the meeting w/ the Marines discussing Rocks and Yonko) that the Shichibukai were among one of the only individuals w/ the marines who could be used to fight against the Yonko. Logically, we can only use the ones who were Shichibukai at the time (Except Buggy) of this statement:

  • Hancock (mostly featless, but hyped by the Admirals),
  • Weevil (mostly featless but has a decent amount of statements and took out alliance captains under WB),
  • Mihawk (Has already proved to fight a Yonko Commander, but mostly featless),
  • Kuma (Mostly featless, but has an anti-feat from Pre TS Zoro denting him, though he has hax and could get between Rayleigh and Kizaru... and he's clearly a shell now since he's used as a slave).
Buggy is exempt from participating cuz he's basically Jar-jar Binks. Doflamingo was imprisoned before this statement, and Fujitora took away Law's title after having confirmed to have joined up with Luffy. Those are the only ones, and two of them have hax, so it might not come down to physical power.
 
Your whole argument is based on Mihawk not becoming stronger at all during the last 6 years which is idiotic.

The data book already confirms Mihawk > Shanks.

As the WSS (and Oda has confirmed he is the WSS, it's not just a title) he should scale above both Shanks and Big Mom, in physicals if nothing else.

Shanks told WB that he hadn't received his scars from Mihawk indicating that he was the strongest person he had ever fought.

As the 3 World's Strongest ______ WB, Mihawk and Kaido should scale to each other.

Mihawk was used by Oda to test the gap between the defenders of Marineford and Whitebeard indicating he was the 2nd strongest person there.

Since the 7 warlords, Yonko and WG need to be balanced they need a real monster among them.

He ROFLstomped Jinbei who gave Big Mom a decent fight indicating he is > Big Mom (pretty obvious from BM being a swordsman. This should also put him above Akainu (pretty apparent from him saving Akainu from Burundi world).

Him roflstomping Jinbei was very similar to Kaido roflstomping Luffy if not even more effortless.

The only character in the entire verse to yet to be scratched.

Literally everybody always pisses their pants when he is in the vicinity.

Very obviously the strongest Warlord and vastly above Doflamingo.

Was able to teach Zoro Goken which Yonko fms don't even know exists.

If he is comparable to the admirals with their hax then he has to be way above them in AP.
 
@Whis

1) You aren't providing evidence and simply arguing "Mihawk got stronger" when he has 0 scaling from when he and Shanks were battling 12+ years ago. Yes, he got stronger, but from what? He and Shanks were UNKNOWN back then. How am I idiotic?

2) And the Databook implied BM and Kaido had around 2 Billion Beris on each, and Shanks joined the Yonko 12 years ago when both statements were thrown to the ground. And no, the databook does NOT say Mihawk > Shanks.

3) He beats them with the blade, not overall capabilities. Big Mom isn't just a swordswoman, neither are Kaido or WB. Shanks is an unknown factor.

4) "Shanks told WB that he hadn't received his scars from Mihawk indicating that he was the strongest person he had ever fought." Lol no. Please re-read what you just said. Shanks never said that, and Mihawk is also unscathed despite having fought Shanks numerous times. If anything, they were both equals over 12 years ago.

5) Again, making shit up. WB and Kaido are never stated to be among the top swordsman--ever.

6) Mihawk never fought Whitebeard. He stepped up wanting to test his abilities against Whitebeard, which caught the rest of the Shichibukai off-guard. You are straight up WANKING now with head-canon.

7) The Shichibukai work alongside the Marines collectively to make up the WG. Implying Mihawk picks up the slack to equal the 3 Admirals is unsupported. The Shichibukai and Marines make up the force of the WG to fight the Yonko... Not that each force is individually comparable to the other.

8) "ROFLstomped Jinbe" Anime-only. Non-canon. And Jinbe used his strongest attack to simply push Big Mom off the ship and didn't even manage to hurt her. How did Jinbe give BM a "decent fight" when they both traded a single blow, and Big Mom was in the middle of starvation.

9) Actually, Boa Hancock has also come out unscathed? = to Mihawk via your logic.

10) "Vastly above Doflamingo" Again, unsupported. I agree he has to be stronger than Doflamingo, but that's my opinion, and it holds no weight here.

11) Erm, Zoro does not use Goken in the sense that someone like Luffy currently uses it. And Doflamingo also uses the same type of Armament as Zoro. You trying to say Doflamingo > Kaido?

12) I'm comparing Mihawk to an Admiral as in overall combative capabilities.

Seriously, stop making up a bunch of fan-canon bull shit and also trying to use the Anime, which was agreed to be far too inconsistent from the manga to be used for feats and statements.

Also, refrain from not-so-subtly insulting me again. Thanks :)
 
CinCameron20 said:
@Whis ~Snip~
Click to expand...
You're complaining about me insulting you.

1. Why not put Mihawk at Unknown then.

2. The Shanks becoming a Yonko 12 years ago was a mistranslation and you know that.

Yes that is exactly what the data book said.

3. So you agree that Mihawk is 6B ?

4. WB is the world's strongest man and Kaido is the world's strongest creature, collectively they're the 'world's strongest' trio.

12. So you agree Mihawk is 6B ?

Most of your other counter arguments are just saying that I'm fanwanking so I can't really respond to them. Sometimes I forgot you're the man who campaigned for Low 6B Sanji (now that was a not so subtle insult, you've turned me into an ad hominem strawman abuser just like you)
 
Stop quoting huge walls of text.

1) Mihawk scales at least from Vista, who should scale from Jozu and also fighting Akainu. Low 6-B.

2) Now explain the other issues in the databook that were very obviously misleading. Again, the databook does not claim Mihawk > Shanks.

3) No, Skill with the blade =/= power

4) "World's Strongest trio" - Never stated in-verse. Just by you. WSS is not comparable in any way to WSM/WSC. You can't scale any of them to eachother.

12) Low 6-B. Admirals are Low 6-B, not 6-B. Now stop being a tool.

Low 6-B Sanji back when people were making odd scaling demands, so i compared Doflamingo complimenting Sanji's strength and mockingly suggested he should be Low 6-B if Doflamingo referred to him as "Strong". Now stop derailing, and if you refuse to provide evidence for Mihawk, I assume we're done here.
 
1. That's like saying Superman should be 9c if his best feat is punching a normal dude.

2. Tell me these issues. Yes, it says exactly this.

3. If Mihawk can beat BM and Shanks in a swordfight then he scales to their physicals and both BM and Shanks have 6B physicals. Ergo, Mihawk has 6B physicals. Your scaling not mine.

4. Yup 2 of 3 characters who are called world's strongest are much stronger than the 3rd very legit.

12. Low 6Bs with Obscene amounts of hax.

Also only 2 beings have been shown with supreme grade blades- WB and Mihawk, no Yonko fm, no admiral.
 
This is Mihawk's current rating, LordWhis: At least Low 6-B, likely 6-B

Cin is proposing it be downgraded further.
 
1) But Superman would have scaling if he's fought other characters with x feats. Mihawk only has a tier 7 feat to his name, but he scales from fighting Vista.

2) Prove it. I wont do this "No, yes, no, yes" game with you.

3) Omg. He can outperform them with the blade, but that doesn't mean he can kill them. Not like it matters since none of the Yonko claim to be swordsmen at heart, unless Shanks does later down the line. He's the only one currently shown using a sword exclusively.

  • Mihawk could fend off BM using Napoleon to fight (The gap between them isn't big, so it's very likely anyways), either through parrying/blocking or outright disarming her, but then she'd use her DF and just overpower him, for example.
4) You completely misunderstand. WSM =/= WSS =/= WSC. They are titles and none of them even have any connection to the other. Creature =/= Man =/= Swordsman.

12) Except their powers are nulled by Haki, which we know Mihawk to be an expert in, so he could take down an Admiral in combat if they came to blows, theoretically.

Mihawk is getting downgraded again because the rest of us advocating he keeps some scaling to Shanks realized we were wrong and that he should not scale to a feat that doesn't apply to him since 1) Shanks and Mihawk could have been a lot weaker 12+ years ago, and 2) We don't have any reason to believe Mihawk or Shanks kept pace with eachother in becoming more powerful over the years after they stopped.
 
Thread last week- Ant: I agree Mihawk should be on par with the Yonko.

Ant goes on vacation

This thread pops up

Coincidence? I think not
 
I don't keep tabs on the lives of people in this wiki. And you act like he can't just come back a month later to suggest changes.

However, I will state that I disagree with Ant on this matter for one simple reason -> It is never stated, nor implied that Dracule Mihawk is, in any way, equal or comparable to the Yonko outside of the fact that he dueled Shanks well before he became a Yonko, and simply stopped dueling him all together.

Now, I'm sure there will be various plot twists and reveals through the series which will shock the audience, and possibly shed light on Mihawk's power level and abilities, but until we get hard evidence in the actual story that Mihawk is Yonko-level, he has only one solid fight he scales from--skirmishing Vista.
 
If Mihawk ever gets new evidence putting him on par with the Yonkou, he can always be upgraded later.
 
^ Exactly. As of now, Mihawk has hype, but no direct statement in-canon linking him to the Yonko. All he has is a solid ice-splitting feat, training Zoro, and being able to fight with Vista quite casually. Shanks as of 12 y/o =/= Shanks as of Marineford. And they likely had a friendly competition more than a dead-serious rivalry, given how both act around eachother.
 
If next time we see Mihawk and he is shown stomping an Admiral (Kizaru, not Fuji/Ryo), he gets an "At least Low 6-B".

If we get a statement about him combating one of the Yonko (recently, as in around the time-line for the story--last 2 years) and having done well against them, he gets "Likely 6-B" (only because context is missing).

We straight up see him fight a Yonko competitively, he gets "6-B" no questions asked.
 
Only criteria I would not put in is the bit about war-lords=Admirals via statements. There are many feats chaining some war-lords to admirals but going off the whole "3 great powers" hype is nonesense at this point.

I think this can be added at this point. @Damage is staff and agrees as does most everyone else and Whis was debunked.
 
I'm just going to wait for Oda to show feats from Mihawk putting him way above what you guys think. But it should be common sense why Mihawk should still scale to the Yonko.

1) He states that Shanks wouldn't provide a challenge for him with only one arm. The data book confirms that he is indeed the "World's Strongest Swordsman", so basically no one is beating him in a sword fight. What have we seen Shanks use to fight? A sword. I'm not saying that Shanks would lose an all out fight, but they are definitely comparable.

2) In One Piece there are only three people labeled as the "strongest". We have got the World's Strongest Man, the World's Strongest Creature, and the World's Strongest Swordsman. Titles clearly mean a lot and there has been a lot of debating on the interpretation of these titles, but one thing can be agreed. They are among the most powerful characters we have seen in One Piece so far.

3) Even before Shanks was a Yonko (which is just a title, Morgans called Luffy the Fifth, but he got one shotted), he and Mihawk were said to have shaken the Grand Line with their duel. That feat, if shown, would put Shanks and Mihawk's feats at higher levels than anything in One Piece so far. For all of those who want to misinterpret this, I'm not saying that they are above the Yonko—the Yonko would clearly scale. But that means Mihawk contributed to something THAT grand (no pun intended).

4) Throughout the series, Mihawk has been compared to Shanks. They are seen as rivals and there have never been details about one besting the other. When Mihawk approached Shanks in East Blue, his crew looked afraid, and Shanks asked him if he wanted to go a round (which implies them at an equal level as he knows Mihawk's power firsthand and wanted to have a duel like old times).

5) Mihawk has not been seen being bested at all and there are no details of him losing to anybody. The latest chapter of him implies that he used to be chased by the World Government. There is no doubt in my mind Pirates chased him as well. The Yonko would have tried to recruit or kill someone as strong as him by now, unless they did try and couldn't.

6) He was one of the few to leave Marineford without injuries.

7) Even though it isn't canon, I'm pretty sure Stampede gives us a glimpse at top tier strength and Mihawk pulled off an impressive casual feat.

8) Lol at placing Mihawk at the level that Luffy is. He wouldn't stand a chance against Mihawk yet.

If these points don't make sense to you, then all you can do is wait for Oda to make it clear. But common sense puts Mihawk on the level of the Yonko. He has been consistently referred to and portrayed as one of the top dogs of One Piece. Currently, he is Zoro's end goal, meaning he has to be pretty powerful and Zoro isn't even close to his strength levels yet. (Oda storyboarded Stampede and it shows us that there is still a large gap between the two). I disagree that Mihawk should be low 6B, it does not make any sense in terms of the story.

@ Dr.Fix That last post is pretty much why I don't debate here anymore. People just use staff to decide things instead of logic and actual arguments. If you are popular or asked to be staff, whether you accept or not, anything you say is law. And if anyone shuts this down then you prove my point.

Edit: A lot of typos I am noticing. I am not about to go back and fix my grammar. The points are still there. Also, I just thought of even more points, but I doubt the argument will go anywhere until Mihawk shows off in the manga. Plus lol, you said that Prime ages were like in the 50s-60s in One Piece on the other thread, but here denies the possibility of Mihawk getting stronger in the years since he's fought Shanks.
 
> he and Mihawk were said to have shaken the Grand Line with their duel.

Don't take it literally.

If news of Luffy's exploits were said to shake the world, we wouldn't rate Luffy as 5-B.
 
Dr.Fix said:
I think this can be added at this point. @Damage is staff and agrees as does most everyone else and Whis was debunked.
Click to expand...
Calling someone a fanboy =/= debunking someone
 
I still don't see what's wrong with his current at least low 6B, likely 6B rating. It already addresses all of Cin's concerns

At least low 6B, possiby 6B/higher or Unknown would both be better tiers for him.

The villain from Demon slayer is the closest parallel to Mihawk I can think of- an extremely strong character lacking feats. We rate him at least 9a, likely far higher. We can give Mihawk at least low 6B, likely far higher the same way.
 
Also Mihawk's physicals should scale to BM and Shanks since he could beat both of them in a swordfight.

Therefore he should have 6B physicals
 
> Also Mihawk's physicals should scale to BM and Shanks since he could beat both of them in a swordfight.

Nah. He has absolutely no feats of that.

Also, there's no need to post three times in a row.
 
Big Mom doesn't claim to be the best swordsmen... She just has a sword.
 
That puts her below Mihawk in swordsmanship which means Mihawk should be superior to her in physicals- or at least comparable.
 
Your mistake now is confusing swordsmanship with physical stats.
 
If Mihawk wasn't comparable to BM and Shanks in physical stats then he would always lose if he were ever to try and swordfight them.

Mihawk should be capable of better than the sword strike BM used to clash with Kaido and the sword slash Shanks used to clash with WB.

His sword slashes should be superior to Ikiku Sovereignty.

Honestly I think that Mihawk should be above BM. Zoro considers an acrobat, a guy with a blade devil fruit, a guy with a morphing cloud sword, a bird human hybrid with sharp talons and a giant rock monster who happens to swing a sword around to all be swordsmen. BM is a swordsman, in-verse people aren't picky about what is a swordsman.
 
Looks like the consensus among the staff is pretty unanimous. Cin, you can make the changes whenever you want.
 
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