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Michael Demiurgos vs Molecule Man

Eganergo said:
"millions of times more powerful then all of the marvel multiverse combined" doesn't translate to millions of time more powerful than baseline 1A.
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i know Not Icarus asked what if beyonder scaled form the 1A living tribunal aka what if the tribunal back in the day was 1A

which would mean he is millions of times stronger then him and everything else in marvel

im not saying that he is millions of times above baseline since marvel had no 1A in the mutliverse at the time
 
Not Icarus said:
Protoge, The Living Tribunal, Oblivion, and etc are a small to a nice chunk at best above baseline.
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1. didn't exist

2. wasn't 1A

3. isn't a part of the mutliverse as he is outside of it alltogether
 
Alright as it seems Pre Retcon Beyonder doesn't scale to 1-A TLT. He's likely baseline according to the statements. Michael stomps
 
Michael has infinite amount energy. Enough that his death alone can create a infinite dimensional multiverse. PRB is above cosmic entities that were vastly weaker than they are now. Living Tribunal was not the cosmic judge but a magic custodian, there was no multi eternity, marvel cosmology was a baseline multiverse. I don't see PRB winning
 
Immortalgodd said:
Michael has infinite amount energy. Enough that his death alone can create a infinite dimensional multiverse. PRB is above cosmic entities that were vastly weaker than they are now. Living Tribunal was not the cosmic judge but a magic custodian, there was no multi eternity, marvel cosmology was a baseline multiverse. I don't see PRB winning
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Lmao. Michael never create any structures. He had restoring creation. Also creation hadnt infinite dimensional regions. Maybe 10D or 11D, not higher. PRB all the same wins by presence.
 
Not Icarus said:
So does Marvel btw.
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nah marvel has infinet dimensions aka high 1B

dc has inumarable aka just 1B

but both lu and mike transend dimensions all together so it matters not
 
She is not talking about DC multiverse but the nexus point of creation where dimensions where being created and destroyed.
 
She is not talking about DC multiverse but the nexus point of creation where dimensions where being created and destroyed.
And? She doesn't talking about sd.

Not really she is talking about spatial dimensions. Just read it.
 
Thats not even Rama Kushna, that was Sena, that scan doesnt have anything to do with Rama Kushna's statement. What Rama was talking about was Spatial dimensions as confirmed by DeMatteis himself.
 
Sandman31 said:
Thats not even Rama Kushna, that was Sena, that scan doesnt have anything to do with Rama Kushna's statement. What Rama was talking about was Spatial dimensions as confirmed by DeMatteis himself.
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She basically says "two steps below your dimensions" but this guy needs to be spoonfed. I posted a Lucifer scan where in his talk with Presence we see Endless layered creation in its axis which he says is just a layer. When I show him that it basically means dimensions he says infinite dimensions is not spatial dimensions because he doesn't say space. I showed him a scan of Elaine and Lucifer traversing all of physical spaces along abstract dimensions of Lucifer but he says it is 6D. Really, its like until Lucifer himself comes and says it to his face that he meant spatial he wouldn't budge. By scaling through the Endless alone Lucifer and Michael are beyond infinite dimensions.
 
Why are spatial dimensions relevant to two 1-A beings?

Also just for refernce being millions of times above baseline 1-A isn't the same as transcending baseline 1-A millions of times.

I'm not sure how powerful Lucifer is in relation to 1-A maybe Sandman does?
 
And apparently TLT wasn't even 1-A around the time Beyonder was stated to be millions of times stronger than the marvel multiverse combined. He later became 1-A.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
And apparently TLT wasn't even 1-A around the time Beyonder was stated to be millions of times stronger than the marvel multiverse combined. He later became 1-A.
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When Beyonder arrived TLT was more about magic than cosmic judge. Marvel itself was around 5D back then. Beyonder was millions of times stronger than the Marvel multiverse that had no infinite dimensions back then. Beyonder wouldn't rank so high in current hierarchy. Ge is around Multi-Eternity at most
 
Yeah. Beings like PRB or pre retcon Molecule man are scaled to the later Marvel or Living tribunal who during the time were not what they would later go on to become. PRB never transcended dimensions to begin with. His display of feats also doesn't put him around that level. We have his statements to go by but his arrogant nature plays a great part in where he is ranked.
 
The dimensional tiering has many flaws with some outa place ranks
 
@Immortal I want evidence from Vertigo comics that suggest the cosmology in Lucifer comics is innumerable dimensional or whatever, not from later DC. Just like how you can't scale Beyonder to Living Tribunal's later feats, I can't scale Vertigo characters between continuities
 
Luc
Also you can scale Lucifer to DC because Dream and Destiny are shown to be transcending the DC multiverse and Lucifer is way above that. Presence backed Spectre is currently in Lucifer and a wingless and powerless Lucifer seems to be more than a match against him.
 
Has been addressed already

Can you show me Dream and Destiny's feats, along with evidence that DC was established as innumerable dimensional cosmology at that time?

"Presence backed Spectre is currently in Lucifer and a wingless and powerless Lucifer seems to be more than a match against him"

Sorry, I didn't get what you're trying to say there
 
Really that's what happens when someone doesn't read the issue and just looks at one single panel and judges it. In the next page Lucifer is looking at all of creations. It is not because of the nature of the void but the nature of creayion itself. Dream created the dark multiverse and he is still inferior to Lucifer. PRB cannot scale to current LT because LT would go on to become a cosmic judge with more increment in his might but Dream hasn't gotten any amps. In current run of Lucifer Spectre is backed by the Presence but wingless Lucifer is still somewhat equal to him
 
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