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MHA: Nejire Chan & Suneater

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TheRustyOne

TheRustyOne

VS Battles
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Smaller thread for some characters here.

Option 1: Suneater is first as he's the simplest, because I forgot to include him in a pervious CRT to be upgraded. This is for his Shie Hassaikai Arc key.

Just read his profile and you'll understand, he should be scaling to High 7-C. Fat Gum believes Suneater is more capable of stopping those villains than anyone else here, which includes himself. Obviously Fat Gum would be better to defeat them if he can one shot them with less than 1% of his power.

And he could harm villains that could hurt Fat Gum as well. So it should be clear that Suneater should be High 7-C with Manifest, his base durability will remain the same at 8-A.

Agree: LordGriffin1000, (1)

Disagree: Damage3245, (1)

Neutral: (0)

Edit: Option 2 for Suneater removes his scaling with Fat Gum and just places him at the lower 8-A level.

Agree: Damage3245, (1)

Disagree: (0)

Neutral: (0)

Edit: Option 3 puts Suneater at 8-A with Manifest, High 7-C with Vast Hybrid. His scaling with Fat Gum applying for his strongest techniques only.

Agree: DemonGodMitchAubin, Damage3245, LordGriffin1000, (3)

Disagree: (0)

Neutral: (0)

Nejire is more complicated but I believe this should be clear, and obviously this is for her Shie Hassaikai Arc key. The giant villains she defeated are currently scaling to an unknown amount above 237.32 Tons of TNT, but I believe they should be 711.97 Tons of TNT instead. Reasoning being comes from Trigger and the Quirks these two villains have.

In MHA Chapter 133, Kirishima fights a villain who he initially defeats with ease. However, the man injects himself with the Trigger drug and became strong enough to hurt Kirishima through his Hardening. Later he even takes a direct hit from Unbreakable Kirishima, both of which scale to 711.97 Tons of TNT.

I bring this up because in Chapter 135, Ryukyu reveals that one of the two giant villains was being boosted by the same drug. Meaning the same drug that boosted that small time villain to Kirishima's level was used to boost a villain with a Gigantification Quirk. The giant villains should scale above 711.97 Tons of TNT, which means Nejire's 30% scales to the same value as well.

A villain with a Gigantification should be more durable than some random thug that doesn't have a Quirk to boost his durability. And both use the same drug to enhance themselves.

This puts 100% Nejire at 2.37 Kilotons of TNT (Small Town level), along with anyone who scales to her. Which is Ryukyu and Rikiya with Energy Suck.

Also, I don't why I just left this like this. But Nejire's Lifting Strength should be 10806 Metric Tons, since she pushed villains that weighed 3242 Metric Tons with 30% of her power.

Sandbox of the changes can be seen here.

Verse Page changes as well, for the notes section. This is for Nejire's Lifting Strength change.

Agree: LordGriffin1000, DemonGodMitchAubin, (2)

Disagree: (0)

Neutral: (0)
 
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I'm neutral but leaning to disagree for the Suneater point. Being "most capable" doesn't necessarily mean having the highest AP. It doesn't seem like a pure strength statement to me. Being the most "capable" or in other words the most "competent" is not inherently the same thing as being the most powerful or the fastest.

As for the Nejire point, currently against it right now.

TheRustyOne said:
A villain with a Gigantification should be more durable than some random thug that doesn't have a Quirk to boost his durability. And both use the same drug to enhance themselves.
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It is implied that the villain's Quirk does amplify his durability, at least with the blades, since Kirishima wonders if the villain is harder than he is now due to being able to cut him.

If there's no direct evidence connecting the giant villain's durability with the villain that Kirishima fought, then it seems too speculative of a scaling leap to me.
 
Damage3245 said:
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Kirishima said that as a response to being cut. Kirishima's talking about his blades not his body, he didn't even hit him to see if he was more durable.

He can't sense it either.

Suneater hurts people that harmed Fat Gum and survived his Spear. Suneater's current rating makes no sense giving Fat Gum is now High 7-C, he's always been scaling to him. You're also completely ignoring the context of the scene, he's talking about why they're leaving him to fight alone.

The entire point was because fighting those three would take too much time and they can't waste anytime. Once again, it'd take seconds for Fat Gum to knock them out in one punch if they were 8-A only. Fat Gum stated he was the most capable in context to defeating these villains, meaning he's better than himself at doing that.

Fat Gum knows their Quirks and how strong they are, their information is public after all.
 
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I probably shouldn't be saying this, but since that Yakuza Arc Calc comes up... I recalculated the "Yakuza Arc Calc" at the time (basically changed the average human to the average Japanese human, which I think is more correct) the thing is that because of that, LS's feat becomes a "few" kg heavier: 3301378.723904 kg
 
If Tamaki was always supposed to be high 7-C then I see no reason why he shouldn't.
Nejire's is a bit more complicated but I agree with it
 
For Suneater, it seems the statement really depends on the method on which he fights. I never read the manga and barely remember the anime but if Suneater is a physical fighter in his methods then Fat Gums saying he's more capable would indicate a physical comparability especially if he can fight people on FG's level. The statement would lean less in the physical aspect if he's got a verity of was to combat the villains that don't involve a bout of physicals.

So if it's the former (As TheRustyOne is going for), I agree with scaling him to High 7-C, but if it's the later, I'm inclined to disagree.

As for Nejire, I'm unsure. I'll remain neutral on that.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
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He's 99% physical, only shown to use things like poison as a last resort.

However, he hurts people who are strong enough to physically harm Fat Gum and could survive his strongest attack.

The statement isn't the only reason he's scaling, we're aware of this correct?

This is all on his profile currently, it's the reason why he is 8-A+ in the first place. I just forgot to include him in the High 7-C upgrades when I made the previous CRT.

For Nejire, both villains are being boosted by the same exact drug. The villain Kirishima fights just has a Quirk to make small blades, Trigger made his blades stronger/longer. It enhanced his Quirk to something extremely powerful. The villain Nejire fights has the ability to become a giant monster.

He used the same drug to enhance himself even more. There's no reason why the boost he receives from the same drug would be lesser. Especially when the blade villain does not get more durable, Trigger is repeatedly stated to only enhance Quirks. If your Quirk enhances your physically ability you'd get physically stronger.

But the blade guy's Quirk is just blades and that is it. So only his blades gained a boost. There's no way he's more durable than a giant who's being enhanced with the same drug.
 
TheRustyOne said:
He's 99% physical, only shown to use things like poison as a last resort.

However, he hurts people who are strong enough to physically harm Fat Gum and could survive his strongest attack.

The statement isn't the only reason he's scaling, we're aware of this correct?

This is all on his profile currently, it's the reason why he is 8-A+ in the first place. I just forgot to include him in the High 7-C upgrades when I made the previous CRT.
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I acknowledged this and agreed... Why are you asking if I'm aware of his other reasons for scaling. The if portion of my comment is if someone can prove he's got other options that make him more valuable outside of physicals, if so I would have disagreed with the use of the statement and depending on the evidence brought forth, disagree entirely. As mentioned, I didn't read the manga.
TheRustyOne said:
For Nejire, both villains are being boosted by the same exact drug. The villain Kirishima fights just has a Quirk to make small blades, Trigger made his blades stronger/longer. It enhanced his Quirk to something extremely powerful. The villain Nejire fights has the ability to become a giant monster.
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That's doesn't seem like solid reasoning in my opinion. If I remember correctly (Correct me if imwhen this series has individuals who are strong despite that not being an aspect of their quirk, no?
TheRustyOne said:
He used the same drug to enhance himself even more. There's no reason why the boost he receives from the same drug would be lesser. Especially when the blade villain does not get more durable, Trigger is repeatedly stated to only enhance Quirks. If your Quirk enhances your physically ability you'd get physically stronger.
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Never argued the buff wasn't the same. I just said I was neutral.
TheRustyOne said:
But the blade guy's Quirk is just blades and that is it. So only his blades gained a boost. There's no way he's more durable than a giant who's being enhanced with the same drug.
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This is the same as the above comment I mentioned. This verse has people without strength quirks being strong physically be it in strength or durability (mainly durability going off some pages). So saying his quirk is just blades doesn't mean he can't be strong, at least in the general sense of a quirk. However, if I'm incorrect then sure, the scaling should be fine.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
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It's meant to support his rating, since he has actual scaling in the series, by hurting people who scale to Fat Gum. This is my main point and it felt like it was being cast to the side, that's what I'm saying. His 8-A rating comes from scaling to Fat Gum. Fat Gum was 8-A but got upgraded to High 7-C, I forgot to include Suneater in the CRT.

Apologies if I responded disrespectfully to you. I have a bad habit of assuming people see the same way I do, so it takes me time to understand what someone means.

To be clear. Suneater hurts villains who scale to Fat Gum, which is High 7-C, so he should be High 7-C. This is fine?

Fat Gum says he's more capable of dealing with those villains than anyone else in the team, which includes himself. Is there any issue with having this as a supporting reasoning?

The Nejire stuff I completely get, this is what I was expecting to debate about.

Now people can be stronger without a Quirk, but we'd need to provide proof this applies to him. We don't assume people are naturally superior without reason, this is why we scale almost everyone above Mineta/Grape Juice. The man here is some no named thug that Harden Kirishima took down with a single punch while holding back.

Yet Trigger enhanced his Quirk to the point that he was overpowering Harden Kirishima with ease, when he previously couldn't even scratch him.

Let's ignore his durability, there's no reason this villain should get a greater boost than giants who are clearly stronger than him normally.

The giant Trigger enhanced thug should have at least the same level of boost from taking the same exact drug, which was made by the same exact people.

Is there an issue with reasoning?
 
TheRustyOne said:
To be clear. Suneater hurts villains who scale to Fat Gum, which is High 7-C, so he should be High 7-C. This is fine?

Fat Gum says he's more capable of dealing with those villains than anyone else in the team, which includes himself. Is there any issue with having this as a supporting reasoning?
Click to expand...
Personally this isn't compelling reasoning for me.

Those villains don't harm Fat Gum since he says "That won't work on me." after taking all of their hits. And as for them surviving his Spear, that'd most likely be because Fat Gum isn't going to want to use lethal force on them. That's like scaling all of those fodder villains from the USJ, who All Might knocked out, to All Might's strength because they survived his hits. Those villains also obviously wouldn't scale to the full AP of his Spear because he was able to knock them all out simultaneously with one hit meaning each one would only scale to a fraction of it at best.

Contextually the reason why Suneater could say that he could handle the villains on his own is because he has access to techniques like his Kraken form which one of the villains comments on. It's not just raw AP that detirmines that Suneater can fight multiple villains head on by himself.
 
Damage3245 said:
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You're incorrect, Fat Gum in his head says he just absorbed a lot of shock from their attacks.

And Fat Gum's Spear attack used up all of his fat reserves in one blow. He doesn't need to use his Spear if he was going to hold back on them, and the fact all of their attacks used up his fat reserves is further proof of how powerful they were as well.

We see what happens in this case if he doesn't want to hurt anyone in Vigilantes, Fat Gum tells people to clear the way and he explodes away from people.

He cannot control his Spear when he unleashes it, it's not an attack he uses lightly.

All Might holding back is not comparable to this scene because he controls his output. It's like saying All Might/Izuku used 100% but held back still, which is nonsense.
 
Two options for Suneater.

Suneater keeps his profile's current reasoning and becomes High 7-C.

Downgrade him to the lowest 8-A rating (237.32 Tons of TNT), since we'd still scale him to Mineta and he has to defeat the Villain Bots to pass the exam.

His Speed would become Unknown as he isn't scaling to Fat Gum anymore.

His current rating cannot stay as it's nonsense right now, we can all agree with that part right?
 
TheRustyOne said:
His current rating cannot stay as it's nonsense right now, we can all agree with that part right?
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Sure, I agree with that.

Personally I'd make him 8-A, with a "higher" for his Vast Chimera attacks.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Bump.

@LordGriffin1000

Could you comment on the Option 2 change for Suneater.

You can ignore everything else in the CRT, as it's not important anymore due to future stuff.

This will only change Suneater's rating, as it's still incorrect.
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Sorry for not responding. IRL issues. I still think option 1 is fine honestly. He has enough going for him to warrant the rating in my opinion.
 
Bump.

Could I get some opinions on Nejire's Lifting Strength as well?

Since she's currently scaling to 3242 Metric Tons with 30% of her power. But this means her 100% should be 10806 Metric Tons.

I know her profile already says it, but the verse page treats it as her being 3242 Tons, so I want to make sure it's okay.
 
57Dev said:
Are we sure the increase is Linear ?
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We assume all percentages are linear unless we have reason to believe other wise. Assuming the source of the percentage is reliable.

You would need to provide proof it does not in this case.

That's why we don't accept the OFA percentages, they don't make sense and contradict basically everything.
 
TheRustyOne said:
We assume all percentages are linear unless we have reason to believe other wise. Assuming the source of the percentage is reliable.

You would need to provide proof it does not in this case.

That's why we don't accept the OFA percentages, they don't make sense and contradict basically everything.
Click to expand...
Then yeah go ahead with the 10806 Metric Tons. Makes sense.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Bump.

Could I get some opinions on Nejire's Lifting Strength as well?

Since she's currently scaling to 3242 Metric Tons with 30% of her power. But this means her 100% should be 10806 Metric Tons.

I know her profile already says it, but the verse page treats it as her being 3242 Tons, so I want to make sure it's okay.
Click to expand...
I think it's fine.
 
Considering what Suneater can do, I would not be against scaling him above Fat Gum with his best stuff, but considering his entire power is variable on what he eats, it's kinda hard to scale anything specifically above Fat Gum

Non-Crossed out Nejire stuff is fine
 
For Suneater, would you be more inclined for Option 2 for safety or something different?

Due to the difficulty of scaling anything specific with him above Fat Gum?
 
TheRustyOne said:
For Suneater, would you be more inclined for Option 2 for safety or something different?

Due to the difficulty of scaling anything specific with him above Fat Gum?
Click to expand...
He says he is not against Suneater scaling from Fat Gum so that means he is agreeing with Option 1.
 
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