Methuselah's amount of night

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Pretty simple and straightforward. His night count plays a part on determining his scale of existence which is then corroborated into his durability and the scale/potency of his mindfuckery.

Currently the number's only noted to be beginning of Mercurius' reign until Methuselah's demise multiplied by the time loop which numbers in at least the decillions. A VFB of a later game supposedly gave us a pretty hard number both for how long Mercurius' reign last and how many timeloops he did. His reign last for around 30k to 40k years per iteration while the loops itself is a nayuta, a unit of bigass number which is generally defined as this by the Nihonjin

Úéúþö▒õ╗û´╝êÒü¬ÒéåÒüƒ）Òü»µ╝óÕ¡ùµûçÕîûÕ£ÅÒü½ÒüèÒüæÒéïµò░Òü«Õìÿõ¢ìÒü«õ©ÇÒüñÒÇéÚéúþö▒õ╗ûÒüîÒüäÒüÅÒüñÒéÆþñ║ÒüÖÒüïÒü»µÖéõ╗úÒéäÕ£░ÕƒƒÒü½ÒéêÒéèþò░Òü¬ÒéèÒÇüÒü¥ÒüƒÒÇüþÅ¥Õ£¿ÒüºÒééõ║║Òü½ÒéêÒéèÞºúÚçêÒüîÕêåÒüïÒéîÒéïÒÇéõ©ÇÞê¼þÜäÒü½Òü»10^60ÒéƵîçÒüÖÒüîÒÇü10^72Òü¿ÒüÖÒéïõ║║ÒééÒüäÒéïÒÇé
So generally mean a novemdecillion (10^60) if not a vigintillion multiplied by another billion (10^72)

Here's the scan in question


Particularly this sentence

µ░┤ÚèÇÒüîõ©ëõ©ç´¢×Õøøõ©çÒéÆõ©ÇÕø×Õ©░Òü¿ÒüùÒüªÒüØÒéîÒéÆÚéúþö▒õ╗ûÒü«Õø×µò░Òâ½Òâ╝ÒâùÒÇé

So basically what this would change is Methuselah's mindfuckery potency and durability as those are directly derived from how many night hes got in his being. And i guess it scales to Reinhard's AP too as he busted Methuselah's ass in Interview

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Already done: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3461637?useskin=oasis

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

And you can clearly see they've got the number slightly wrong. So basically that thread makes this far easier than it should've been. Same calc, just applies different value

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Don't feel like tweaking or addressing the calc itself. I'll just plaster in the number

1.535e32 joules multiplied by 30k * 365.25 * a novemdecillion = 1.6819762e+99 joules

1.535e32 joules multiplied by 40k * 365.25 * a novemdecillion = 2.242635e+99 joules

that'll be the new yield for both stated era's length including the loop

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I'll be honest, I had to get a dictionary because I could not for the life of me understand Úéúþö▒.

Apparently it means 10^60 which supports this CRT. The 30k-40k is true too in õ©ëõ©ç´¢×Õøøõ©ç.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@IMade: Same lol.

It's as the OP said. Úéúþö▒õ╗û can be said as either an "extremely big number" or something like 10^60. The dictionary I use also had it as "-(or 10^72)" which is odd to me.

That said given what's written in both Interview and the VFB, it might be better to use those instead. Last I saw of this brought up, it wouldn't really change the tier other than the result of the value in the calc so Methuselah, and Reinhard by extension, would still be 3-B or whatever.

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

I'll be honest, I had to get a dictionary because I could not for the life of me understand Úéúþö▒.
Apparently it means 10^60 which supports this CRT. The 30k-40k is true too in õ©ëõ©ç´¢×Õøøõ©ç.

You can check this for reference

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_numerals#Powers_of_10

It's a unit of large number in Japanese counting system. Much like how Westerners have ***** like million, billion, vigintillion and shittontillion i guess

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

if this thread is essentially the same as the previous one with only the number being different, i'd cast my agreement again as i once did. the ap chart had the tier 3-a having a minimum value of 2.825x1092 joules or 6.752x1082 in tonnes of tnt. both the lower end and higher end using the new number have 7 more zeroes in them. would this new yield bump them up into tier 3-a then?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Gun Slave Unit: I think it depends on which end of Nayuta we use?

Úéúþö▒õ╗û and Úéúþö▒ÕñÜ are the characters used that can mean 10^60 or 10^72. The text EMS provided here shows one of them but from the dictionary I use to check on it, it shows me as "10^60 (or 10^72)" so maybe if we choose the latter it could make them 3-A?

Idk. Another compromise is probably using both for low and high end and change their tier from 3-B to 3-A?

Hard to say for me but I'll let EMS answer when he gets back on this and see what he thinks.

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

novemdecillion is what he used here already and the resulting yield for both lower end and higher end are above the minimum for 3-a.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Oh.

Well in that case, that pretty much just bumps them to a solid 3A stamp even if it's just over baseline lol.

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Alright so that's a quick fix done

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

So the changes will be upgrading Methuselah's durability and Reinhard's AP and Durability in both his Interview and DI keys to 3-A.

His Interview key is also scaled from being superior to his Legion including Wilhelm so idk if this will also just make him just solely 3-A or keep the 5-A and have the 3-B replaced with 3-A.

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

I don't even know why hes ******* tier 5 considering hes already far superior than literally everyone except maybe Karl Kraft by that point. He blew all of Methuselah mysteries in a single blow. That'll simply makes him tier 3 outright

Deadass tier 3 anything is by default higher than tier 5. He has a feat that'd place him pretty solidly in tier 3. Slapping a tier 5 unto him is just being asinine and misleading

 

[Antvasima]

What are the summarised conclusions here?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Ant

Changing the potency of Methuselah's mindhax and durability based on information from the K3 VFB. The durability in particular being 3-A for Methuselah, and making Reinhard by extension 3-A not just in Dura but also in AP.

That's my understanding of what the OP proposed if I read it right.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Didnt Reinhard use LLT when he blew away Meths nights?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

He used the light of LLT. As in, he pointed LLT at Methu and shot an energy beam at him. Didn't throw it though.

 

[PsychoWarper]

3-A with LLT Light Beam

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Didnt Reinhard use LLT when he blew away Meths nights?

And that changes what exactly? The lance might be a tier 1 construct/have tier 1 hax or however the site wants to treat it, but we know full well what would happen if Methuselah were to be killed through hax that erases him, darkness as a concept would've been eliminated in its entirety. We don't fully know what'll happen if the concept suddenly went poof entirely but what we do know is what'll happen when it behaves in a way it shouldn't be in a relatively small scale (moving darkness to a place where it shouldn't be), the planet will simply cease to exist

With that in mind, Reinhard could only achieve what he did through sheer strength as otherwise the concept itself would disappear (which mean very very bad shit will happen). This is rather compliant to an in-universe statement made by Karl Kraft in regard to the methods of beating Methuselah, which is also confirmed by Bey because he restated what Karl said in his inner monologue

This simply mean Reinhard has a complete control over his power that he can make the side effect that should've happened after his attack doesn't come to pass. This wouldn't even be the first time he did this kind of thing, he did this several times in both regular Dies irae and Interview

 

[PsychoWarper]

Doesnt the erasure and tier 1 shit only happen when he throws it? When he attacks with it other ways it seems to be treated differently.

But eh whatever.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ant

Changing the potency of Methuselah's mindhax and durability based on information from the K3 VFB. The durability in particular being 3-A for Methuselah, and making Reinhard by extension 3-A not just in Dura but also in AP.

That's my understanding of what the OP proposed if I read it right.

So do you and the others here agree with this?

 

[PsychoWarper]

Yeah this seems fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. If you all agree, that can probably be applied.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

It's fine from the looks of it, I guess.

I do think the 5-A could still stay as a kind of low-end tier for Reinhard. Then again, technically speaking his only visual feat he did was one-shotting Methuselah and all of his nights which would be 3-A going by this.

If this is the case to happen, that means his 5-A tier will be removed and he'll be just a 3-A for his Interview key. His DI key also will have to be adjusted since the 3-B there is based on him being superior than anything before him or that moment which includes Methuselah, so he'll also be a 3-A for that key in turn.

 

[Tyri456]

I think the 5A should stay though.

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Okay. If you all agree, that can probably be applied.

I asked Sleepy for his input a few days ago. I'd like to hear from him first

I think the 5A should stay though.

It really shouldn't. That's just purposefully making thing misleading for whatever reason. Him being 5-A through scaling to Wilhelm would be fine and dandy if he has no other feat or his feat is vague and hard to quantify. That is not the case here. He clearly did a feat which can be quantified without too much problem. Him blowing away all of Methuselah's mysteries is not a "probably tier 3 feat", it's an outright feat of that level

 

[Antvasima]

You can politely remind Sleepy if you wish.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Yeah i was busy sorry

I am good with the OP reasoning. I do support it

 

[Antvasima]

What Sleepy has accepted can probably be applied.

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

snip

If you're not so braindead that you'll jump at the usage of the word "concept" you'd noticed that what the localization calls Omega Ewigkeit ancient gods' "personified nature" is nothing more than their mysteries. Guess what it is in Methuselah's case. Add to the fact that God's literal sockpuppet mentioned a way to beat him through sheer strength (which is exactly what Reinhard did) and we were conveniently given a pretty quantifiable value to boot

Methuselah never got weakened after he got beaten by Wilhelm. He simply lost on a logical warfare, which was one of the two possible achievable victories mentioned by Karl. Wilhelm beat Methuselah's ass as a vampire while Reinhard did so to Methuselah as a god of darkness. Only time he got weakened was when Reinhard already **** him up but by that point he was no longer a god of darkness, merely an empty husk hijacking the identity of Ludvig van Rosenkrantz. You're very much welcome to try and quantify just how much Wilhelm weakened him and/or how much night he shaved off of Methuselah

Only time Methuselah got weakened before he got the lance was when Wilhelm abusing the fact that they share a blood karmic bond but that's less Methuselah being weakened and more of a very special and specific circumstance making both of their powerlevel behave and interact in a weird way. Wilhelm can be a tier 10 in that scene for all i care while Methuselah can be a god with a durability of 2-A and it equally won't matter because specifically in that context only, Wilhelm can ignore his 2-A durability precisely because hes not harming Methuselah as a god of darkness (in which his amount of mysteries matter because it directly corroborate into durability) but hes harming him as a fellow vampiric blood kin. It's for the most part plot convenience

It got lost in the localization but it should be pretty obvious given that karl already gave a hard number (higher than 30k) but when the narration mentioned just how many mysteries he had accrued throughout his lifetime, it was an outright countless rather than 30k

Here's a nifty scan that i got from someone a few hours ago


Guess what's also a Novemdecillion

Anyhow imma be applying this alongside another CRT that i forgot i've made before this one

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I see the Úéúþö▒ characters, and since that can go as Úéúþö▒õ╗û or Úéúþö▒ÕñÜ, it fits.

@EMS: I believe Methu's page is locked so a mod or admin will have to unlock it for ya.

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

What Sleepy has accepted can probably be applied.

Done and applied. This can be closed

 

[Infera28]

if we are saying it was light that seemed to purge old world and give birth to a new world is 3-A feat not High 1-A then said statements in Reinhard and Valerian profiles gets affected too:

Reinhard (attack potency and existence erasure):

The Longinuslanze Testament is described as washing away the world of Foreknowledge

Existence Erasure (Can erase anything as long as it has a history while using Machina's Briah or with the Longinuslanze, which can even erase the Law of Mercurius)

Valria Trifa (existence erasure):

Existence Erasure (Can erase anything as long as it has a history with the Longinuslanze, which can even erase the Law of Mercurius)

 

[Antvasima]

@EMS

Okay. I will close this, but please avoid insulting other members in the future. Calling them "braindead" is going too far.