Meliodas vs Lille Barro

[TheMightyRegulator]

I believe x-axis ignores durability Raven.

 

[Alakabamm]

Since his own power is the X-Axis, it can also penetrate his intangible form as well. However, Mel has never shown to be able to reflect things that simply penetrate, giving off no energy and no projectile.

Wouldn't it just be reishi though? It's an instant attack but I don't think it doesn't use reishi.

 

[Tivanenk]

Because the X-Axis shots have huge AOE in his Vollstandig. Mel's body will be completely enveloped by it. Even his other attacks other than the Trompete are a couple city blocks wide at least.

 

[Alakabamm]

Because the X-Axis shots have huge AOE in his Vollstandig. Mel's body will be completely enveloped by it. Even his other attacks other than the Trompete are a couple city blocks wide at least.

Didn't Kyoraku survive them? I don't see why Mel can't.

 

[Tivanenk]

Since his own power is the X-Axis, it can also penetrate his intangible form as well. However, Mel has never shown to be able to reflect things that simply penetrate, giving off no energy and no projectile.

Wouldn't it just be reishi though? It's an instant attack but I don't think it doesn't use reishi.

I highly doubt it. He was firing reishi before he obtained his X-Axis, and the attack was described as simply piercing (Reishi can be blocked, but the Zero Squad couldn't block X-Axis).

I personally think it's just a space erasing attack.

 

[Tivanenk]

Because the X-Axis shots have huge AOE in his Vollstandig. Mel's body will be completely enveloped by it. Even his other attacks other than the Trompete are a couple city blocks wide at least.

Didn't Kyoraku survive them? I don't see why Mel can't.

He only survived one small blast through the chest when Barro went Jilliel for the first time and dodged the rest. And he was heavily injured, vomiting blood along the way.

 

[RavenSupreme]

with what rate of fire what lille shown to shoot it?

because meliodas full counters either before or directly after impact

oh it can be dodged? why can mel not dodge it then?

 

[Tivanenk]

with what rate of fire what lille shown to shoot it?

Frequently for anything other than his Trompete. He was trying to get Kyouraku to come out of the shadows. For the Trompete... well, that didn't end so well when Nanao reflected his power.

 

[RavenSupreme]

do we have some scans for the "frequently" maybe? and why cant mel dodge it when it was dodged before?

 

[Tivanenk]

do we have some scans for the "frequently" maybe? and why cant mel dodge it when it was dodged before?

Kyouraku was spamming Kageoni to hide from him in the shadows, which is the reason why he was dodging them.

Here's one: http://********.me/manga/bleach/vTBD/c650/8.html

Here's another: http://********.me/manga/bleach/vTBD/c650/16.html

And he used them back to back.

 

[RavenSupreme]

oh i thought with spamming you meant something like this

http://b.*************/store/manga/...nanatsu_no_taizai025_016_rhn.jpg?v=1366681682

 

[Gabriel_00]

How exactly Meliodas can't reflect Lile shots?

Lile still wins tho.

 

[Tivanenk]

How exactly Meliodas can't reflect Lile shots?

Lile still wins tho.

And what did you prove with that? It literally shows on the next panel Oetsu being screwed. The shot simply pierced through their Zanpakuto.

 

[Coleworld12]

He should be able to reflect the Trompete as far as I'm concerned and does have speed advantage by quite a bit iirc

 

[Gabriel_00]

Lile shots are projectiles, otherwise they couldn't "block" the x-axis.

 

[Tivanenk]

Lile shots are projectiles, otherwise they couldn't "block" the x-axis.

They didn't block the X-Axis. All it did was pierce the space between him and the target. It's even explained by Barro himself.

http://********.me/manga/bleach/v67/c604/16.html

 

[Tivanenk]

He should be able to reflect the trumpet as far as I'm concerned and does have speed advantage by quite a bit iirc

Mel... doesn't have a speed advantage, their speeds are rather equal.

 

[Coleworld12]

Lille barro is scaled from bambietta who is only low MHS+. While Galan who base Mel blitzed within seconds is Mach 2000 last I checked.

 

[Alakabamm]

That's the high end. The sternritter are scaled from the female sternritter (one of them, not bambietta) who are all mach 1000. They are < the elite sternritter/schutzstaffel. Meliodas is scaled from Galan, who is also mach 1000 and also < meliodas (because blitz).

 

[Coleworld12]

Must've been wrong then we'll it's pretty close either way.This should simply come down to whether or not Mel can reflect his trumpet because that would be fatal to him since Mel can probably use demon regen.

 

[Tivanenk]

You have to remember that Female Sternritter < Bambi << Barro pre-upgrade <<<< Barro post-upgrade < Barro in Vollstandig

So really, it's not unimanigable that Barro has Mel's speed level. And I doubt Mel can Full Counter the X-Axis because it simply pierces the space between him and the target. The only time it was ever avoided was when Kyouraku used Kageokuri and Kageoni and both of these techniques are specifically made so that you won't be hit yourself.

 

[JiroUchiha9]

I'm not following this thread very well, but if Meliodas hasn't been show to bypass intagibility (Not sure if he hs, unfamiliar with NNT), than what chance does he honestly stand? In his initial Volstandig form, Lille can fire 3 shots per wing at the same time, so he can fire a maximum of... 24 shots at a time. Based on the explination of X-Axis that I remember, his Schrift allows him to bypass durability and simply pierce his foe. Not sure of the extent of Meliodas' durability, but if Lille fires one of these shots and hit's Meliodas' vital organs, can he survive long enough to counter and defeat Lille?


Lille also has, iirc, a form of teleportation that allowed him to instantly appear near Kyoraku, who i believe is MHS-MHS+. He was also able to regenerate a severed head, all without entering that weird Centaur owl long neck form. The specifics of Trompete were never elaborated on, so whether it bypasses durability or is an energy projectile is unknown. As far as I gathered from Nanao's Zanpakuto, it reflects the god's' power back at it, so if Trompete bypasses intangibility, a reflected Trompete would as well. But because Trompete was never shown to be an energy projectile or some type of spatial 'space removal', i won't factor that i


Edit: Just did a little more research on Lille and Meliodas. Trompete is infact an Island level Reishi attack, so it should be reflectable, not that I think it'll matter personally.

Also, pretty sure it's not a factor, but when Lille is injured, he doesn't bleed apparently, his body releases light sparks that can cause serious damage to people around his level or slightly lower. Not sure if these could blind Meliodas or damage him much, but if they manage to distract him for even a split second, Lille could use Trompete/X-Axis to attack. It all depends on who attacks first, because Trompete is Island level while Meliodas at his best has mountain level dura.

Also, pretty sure it doesn't mean anything, but when Lille had Trompete reflected back at him, his body was split into smaller, weaker clones that still have X-Axis. That may mean something, not sure.


TL;DR I think Lille wins via hax due to teleportation and X-Axis and I'm not sure if auto-piercing can be reflected since it wasn't an actual attack imo

 

[Tivanenk]

Honestly, while we hung around on the subject of Trumpete too much, it's not as if though Trumpete is the only attack Barro uses. Hell, even base Barro can snipe Mel depending on the starting distances. In Vollstandig, Barro can easily spam multiple shots into weak points. The only time anyone ever avoided his X-Axis was:

Kyouraku by combining Kageokuri and Daruma-san (Barro shot his fake shadow)

Kyouraku using Kageoni (he hid in the shadows)

Nanao reflecting back his god's power back onto him

There's honestly no projectile to Full Counter.

 

[JiroUchiha9]

^^ Makes sense to me tbh. Lille's X-Axis has been shown to have a range of at least a few miles, which I'm sure is beyond Meliodas' range enough that even if he could counter Lille, Lille could simply be out of the range of the counter it seems. At least that's what I gather from this.

 

[Tivanenk]

^^ Makes sense to me tbh. Lille's X-Axis has been shown to have a range of at least a few miles, which I'm sure is beyond Meliodas' range enough that even if he could counter Lille, Lille could simply be out of the range of the counter it seems. At least that's what I gather from this.

Even before in pre-upgrade, Barro was sniping Royal Palace platforms with reishi bullets from a huge distance. And it's hard to believe that his range would get lower, since he sniped both Hisagi and Kyouraku's fake shadow from a distance. Oh, and let's not forget that he can fly and Mel can't, so he can technically just fly up high, even above the clouds if need be, track Mel with his Reikaku, and X-Axis him while Mel doesn't know any better.

 

[Tivanenk]

Let's look at it this way: if you have one guy who has multiple ways to finish someone off, and another guy who has only one way that is very heavily reliant on his opponent screwing up, who do you think will win more often than not?

 

[RavenSupreme]

I just see Meliodas is limited to his base form. That means he can't utilize demon powers such as Regenerationn

Regarding the odds of winning: Meliodas has the speed advantage and the reflection advantage, to which Lille is weak

Also Lille will have to face up to 5 Meliodas at a time, of which everyone can counter his attacks

The only thing which I followed speaks for Lille is the intangibility and this gets countered from his own attacks

 

[GreatestSin]

lille wins, except for full counter which maybe can reflect lilles attack who also maybe are able to harm lille himself i dont see meliodas having anything that gives him the win,

the fight will take a long time because of meliodas's Regenerationn but in the end lille wins ^_^

 

[JiroUchiha9]

But the whole thing to me is, what is the range of Meliodas' counter? Is it an automatic thing that deals damage regardless or does it have a specifc range, because Lille has a range of miles, and I still don't understand how Meliodas can reflect/counter X-Axis, which isn't an actual projectile but just a technique that pierces everything in a line from wherever Lille fires, be it his gun or wings depending on form.


Could you explain if/how Meliodas can counter something like that so I can form a better grasp of the situation?

 

[GreatestSin]

^meliodas countered a intangible force in canon, so maybe he can do it here too, but even if, we dont know if the coutnered force will actually damage lille, and even if it does, lille had Regenerationn where he can causually recreate his head or half of his body,

meliodas will lose in the long run, and this only if we say that full counter actually works only version of lille which is see losing is his base form ^_^

 

[RavenSupreme]

Meliodas was about to full counter an attack and reflect it back to the attacker who was "hundred of miles" away so range should not be a problem

And Meliodas does not have to Full counter himself but can use his clones to reflect the attacks. On top there have never been stamina issues regarding the ability

 

[GreatestSin]

^can you give me the event in which this happened? i only remember the issue at the beginning of the manga with gilthunder and the spear but this was without full counter...

i mean in a sense of "at some point he will be exhausted", afterall even with clones lille can spam hi attacks, he only requires 6 or more attacks at the same time and meliodas even with clones wont hbe able to reflect them all (even if she can), and if they hit lille he can heal himself with seemingly no issue whil we dont know if meliodas would survive a severed head (they always reattached limbs and never grew them again, and healing takes immense stamina, look at demon-hendrickson) ^_^

 

[RavenSupreme]

http://b.*************/store/manga/11925/128.0/compressed/s011.jpg?v=1434365523

http://b.*************/store/manga/11925/128.0/compressed/s012.jpg?v=1434365523

http://b.*************/store/manga/11925/128.0/compressed/s013.jpg?v=1434365523

http://b.*************/store/manga/11925/128.0/compressed/s014.jpg?v=1434365523

http://b.*************/store/manga/11925/128.0/compressed/s016.jpg?v=1434365523

http://b.*************/store/manga/11925/128.0/compressed/s017.jpg?v=1434365523

---

instead of full countering mama hawk stepped in to not give away their position

---

has lille been shown to fire multiple attacks at once?

---

also: i have heard that lille is weak to his own attacks. now you say he can take them without problems or heal. what is correct?

---

also: how will he hit when meliodas is much faster in the first place? his attacks got dodged before, right?

 

[JiroUchiha9]

are the clones legitimate clones or are they similar to shadow clones in the sense that they are all weaker than the original? Because if they are all of the same power level, than Lille would have to spam all 24 shots at once, which might work. If they are shadow-clone like, than taking them out should be relatively easy imo, even if it gives away his location.

Also, what advantage does the speed difference give Meliodas when he has to reflect Lille's anti-intangibility attacks, if he even could? The speed doesn't matter imo.


Honestly, this is getting confusing enough for me to almost call a mismatch tbh. I think Lille wins because of durability bypassing matter piercing hax+ almost limitless regen, but if Meliodas can somehow counter that and vaporize Lille whole, than it's technically a stomp. really confusing to me lol

 

[JiroUchiha9]

Yes he has. He has the ability to fire 24 attacks at once, but due to his severe personality change, his overconfidence made him think 3 was all he needed. After that, I believe he fired 24 at once, but he wasn't aiming because of the personality change not making him as thorough.

Not really. Even when Kyoraku was using multiple forms of evasive technique, Lille still managed to hit him, albeit in the foot. I assume his attacks can be dodged, but if Lille has literally no chance to hit his opponent, then this is a mismatch because of said fact.

Lille had his powers reflected back at him. However, due to the nature of Nanao's Zanpakuto, they reflected them back at him and divided him into eight pieces. It is unknown if he could have regenerated if her Zanpakuto wasn't able to divide him.

 

[RavenSupreme]

so from what i got is, when he gets his attack reflected back at him, he is done for? then i dont see a problem as for why meliodas would not be able to defeat him, since he can reflect multiple attacks one-after another and has multiple clones to do the same

 

[JiroUchiha9]

no, what i said was that his attack was reflected by a Zanpakuto specifically meant to stop, reflect, and divide the powers of a 'God/Lille' Lille didn't lose because his attack was reflected, Lille lost because his attack was reflected by a weapon that was meant to specifically counter him by dividing him into multiple, weaker pieces. we have no idea if X-Axis can be reflected, since the attack reflected was Trompete, an energy based attack that Meliodas could obviously reflect

 

[RavenSupreme]

and this attacks was supposed to be "light" which is energy as well (going from the arguments)

 

[JiroUchiha9]

by the looks of it tbh. Trompete is light + reishi. X-Axis has been explained to not be light related, so the only other light thing he has are the light sparks that ooze from his body when and where he should bleed before he regens

 

[GreatestSin]

and this attacks was supposed to be "light" which is energy as well (going from the arguments)

the thing is that nanaos zanpakuto isnt a power to "reflect attacks" but to do something with the power of gods, i dont know it myself, this is what her wiki article says:

Purportedly, Shinken Hakkyōke has the power to take the power of a god into itself and disperse it off into the eight directions.[63] The blade itself reflects the power of the godly opponent that its wielder is facing; when confronted by the sword while in the true form of his Quincy: Vollständig, Lille Barro was unable to even see it due to how bright it appeared to be,[64] and actually lost his left hand to a blow from the sword, despite having been able to phase through most of Shunsui Kyōraku's attacks prior to this. A blow from the sword results in energy being dispersed in multiple directions at once.[65] Nanao can also reflect attacks back at their users by holding the blade in front of her; when used against Lille's Trompete, a large blast of energy that destroyed most of the area in its path, Shinken Hakkyōke protected a thin strip of land while erasing a vertical section of Lille's body, causing him to disintegrate into energy shards.


from how the battle happened and how her powrs are described it seems like her ability is aperfect counter against "gods", and only works against them, this is why she was easily defeating him :/

but even if the reflection works, lille can create more clones, different forms of himself, has better regeration, can spam his attacks with more numbers than 5 meliodas's could reflect or let vanish, and other than full counter not a single one of meliodas's other attacks should be useful,

i vote for lille, 80/100 times ^_^