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On this wiki, Megami Tensei is rated as 1-A for its strongest characters despite not having a hierarchy of infinite dimensions to transcend due to fulfilling an exception to the general rules, a rating they gained in https://vsbattles.com/threads/megami-tensei-the-collective-expansive-crt.124544/. The justification used for this massive tier jump was the following:
[...]
Yeah, so, as we can gather, this realm, being the world of the unconscious where individuals who attained Nirvana and escaped the cycle of reincarnation reside in a state of no-ego, is very obviously just the Atziluth / Kadath. And the first statement above is very clear-cut 1-A. The fact that it specifically refers to superiority over the concept of dimensions & refers to such a state as fundamentally above simply being a higher-dimensional entity beyond the boundaries of the 3-D world also means that it bypasses this clause of the Tiering System FAQ, which only accounts for cases where it is unclear if the superiority in question is over "dimensions" as a whole or merely the dimensional structures physically present in the verse, and so it certainly fulfills the "All possible extensions" criterion.
Since this thread was accepted, two Staff Discussion threads have significantly tightened the requirements for a 1-A rating.
As we can see, the statement used to prove Megami Tensei's 1-A rating no longer qualifies for 1-A under the new site standards. Stating that one transcends the concept of dimensions would require an explicit supporting statement that infinite dimensions are included in this concept for a character to jump to 1-A without an infinite hierarchy, without which such a statement would only allow the character to have a rating of one more dimension than the verse in question is known to have.
Proposal
As the statement used to prove 1-A lacks the context to support such a rating, it will instead be used to scale the characters it affects to one more dimension than the verse has otherwise demonstrated, and the characters with additional transcendent layers above baseline 1-A will have the corresponding number of dimensions added to their tier. I'm not knowledgeable regarding this verse at all and am just doing my duty as a staff member to implement the ripple effects of policy changes, so the specifics will be left for others to work out.
"You know that it is a nano-sized semi-organic quantum computer assembly, but ⟨Ardha's⟩ ability is to break the power that makes the computers assemble with each other. It has the ability to break down the essentially indestructible body of an ⟨ASURA⟩ into its smallest fragments, sub-molecular sized particles, and cause it to cease to exist."
"I don't understand", Cielo stirred restlessly, sitting next to Serph. "Are you saying that his body disappearing like a mist is what we saw? So, is that what happened to you, big brother? Or rather your consciousness, at that time? Was it decomposed or something?"
"The ⟨ASURA⟩ body defines its existence by the self-awareness of the installed AI", Serph replied. "Ardha's ability to disassemble the body also included the ability to disassemble the ⟨ASURA-AI⟩, the subjective consciousness that controls the body's variability, self-repair, and form. Rather than decomposition, I should say it was dispersed. The human consciousness cannot recognize a body that has been broken down to the size of a particle as 'self'. On the contrary, the components of an ⟨ASURA⟩ body that has been broken down to the size of particles regain their original quantum nature and diffuse everywhere, in all dimensions, and across all possibilities. As a result, the self-consciousness also diffuses, and the unity of personality cannot be maintained. In very simple terms, the personality and the body will disappear, at least from this material world."
"After I disappeared, I could see everything that everyone was doing", Serph continued. In Sera’s case, she was blocked by the shell, and the blast was contained within the EGG. But as for me, I continued to expand further and farther than her, expanding beyond the boundaries of this dimension. For a quantum-based being, just the normal 3 dimensions were far too small, and nothing more than the lowest, most basic tier dimensions. Or possibly, what I had done was expand beyond even the concept of “dimension” and into an unknown space. I didn’t fully understand it myself—or rather, it’s just that I lacked the words to explain it.
It was just like how Sera could only describe her communication with god using rough, imprecise language. I, having had existence itself converge within my three dimensional, physical body, could only use words and concepts from the 3-dimensional world. Anymore than that would be go beyond the abilities of my hardware—this physical world, bound by the laws of physics.
[...]
Yeah, so, as we can gather, this realm, being the world of the unconscious where individuals who attained Nirvana and escaped the cycle of reincarnation reside in a state of no-ego, is very obviously just the Atziluth / Kadath. And the first statement above is very clear-cut 1-A. The fact that it specifically refers to superiority over the concept of dimensions & refers to such a state as fundamentally above simply being a higher-dimensional entity beyond the boundaries of the 3-D world also means that it bypasses this clause of the Tiering System FAQ, which only accounts for cases where it is unclear if the superiority in question is over "dimensions" as a whole or merely the dimensional structures physically present in the verse, and so it certainly fulfills the "All possible extensions" criterion.
Since this thread was accepted, two Staff Discussion threads have significantly tightened the requirements for a 1-A rating.
- https://vsbattles.com/threads/amending-the-1-a-without-infinite-hierarchy-guideline.151981/ tightened the rules for a clause of the Tiering System FAQ that allowed a character to jump to 1-A without an infinite hierarchy if they existed independently of the number of dimensional layers present within the setting by requiring any such character to have an explicit statement that the addition or removal of an infinite number of dimensions would make no difference to them, meaning being independent of any finite number of dimensions no longer qualifies you for this exception.
- https://vsbattles.com/threads/low-1-a-wiki-wide-tiering-revision-beyond-dimensions.151894/ added four new entries to the Tiering System FAQ, one of which clarified that transcending the "dimensionality" of a verse strictly only qualifies you for being rated as one dimension above the verse's known number of dimensions with no further context. Though the text of the rule applied to the FAQ doesn't explicitly use this wording, it was agreed upon that this restriction would also apply to transcending the concept of dimensions, which would be restricted to the number of dimensions the verse is known to have, plus one, as "concept of dimensions" can't be assumed to apply to more dimensions than the verse talks about.
As we can see, the statement used to prove Megami Tensei's 1-A rating no longer qualifies for 1-A under the new site standards. Stating that one transcends the concept of dimensions would require an explicit supporting statement that infinite dimensions are included in this concept for a character to jump to 1-A without an infinite hierarchy, without which such a statement would only allow the character to have a rating of one more dimension than the verse in question is known to have.
Proposal
As the statement used to prove 1-A lacks the context to support such a rating, it will instead be used to scale the characters it affects to one more dimension than the verse has otherwise demonstrated, and the characters with additional transcendent layers above baseline 1-A will have the corresponding number of dimensions added to their tier. I'm not knowledgeable regarding this verse at all and am just doing my duty as a staff member to implement the ripple effects of policy changes, so the specifics will be left for others to work out.