Mega Man vs Samus Aran

[X_Squared]

The black holes that Mega Man creates are of course not the full-fledged massive ones in the universe but that doesn't mean they're not possible. IRL micro black holes hypothetically can be created since the energy needed is as low as in the TeV range so particle accelerators like the Large Hadron Collider can possibly create them. Since they're small however, they won't act like the normal huge black holes and grow, but they will evaporate just like Mega Man's black holes eventually. Maybe this whole concept was also in the Mega Man universe, but scientists succeeded there or something?

Also, yes I have read the guidelines for proving if black holes characters use are real or not but I find it kind of weird still if real life physics are being applied to fiction. I mean obviously the creators of those characters aren't physicists or know the concept of these topics well when they give their characters abilities as absurd as black holes so they are going to say that they're in fact real. I understand though that saying these black holes are real can clash with power-scaling for characters (for example I saw once that since Mega Man can move singularities that it makes him large star level which I don't agree with at all considering his actual feats) but I'm saying in this case with Mega Man's small black holes, they have to be real in some degree. If you're referring to gameplay and regular enemies when you said that characters below High 3-A are surviving his black holes then don't, it's really just game mechanics.

Again, I'm not an expert and I feel like I'm stupidly wrong but is there not any chance that Mega Man's black holes could possibly be real???? I'm truly confused now

 

[Newendigo]

What about his Centaur Flash, a dimensional distorting weapon that bypasses defenses (I think it ignores durability even) and hits everything?

I would like to know where this came from.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, Centair Flash just sounds like another time stop technique.

 

[X_Squared]

Just search up Mega Man's Centaur Flash and it says "dimensial distortion in a flash of light." More specifically, the Mega Man Knowledge Base "MMKB"

 

[Ottermonk]

Black Hole - Gravity Suit has that covered, not much else to say on that. Also Samus once had access to her Gravity Suit and and didn't use it to defeat Bomad when he threw a gravity bomb which had a larger affected area then Mega Man's weapon.
Centaur Flash - I don't know where you are getting "Durability Negation" from as it only hurts weaker robots and Wind Man who has an actual weakness to the ability. It does act simular to Time Stop and would let him move around, but much like his other methods it is limited and her Precog and Phase Drift would help alleviate that. Even ignoring that, Mega Man's actions in the time stop are limited.
Concrete Shot - Don't think the "Transmutation" would affect Samus all too much. Would cover here in liquid rock, but she runs through magma consistently with no inpairment to movement thanks to the Gravity Suit. Also Occam's Razor; no reason to think it actually turns things into rock when coating enemies in concrete explains most of the abilities this weapon does.
Astro Crush - Would hurt, but Samus has taken harder hits then that.
Metal Blade - Made out of Ceratanium, which is much tougher but still comparable to Titanium. Samus can destroy Cordite and "Cordite is so strong, in fact, that in laboratory tests it consistently withstood direct hits from war-grade missiles." No real world metal is remotely as durable as that as most bunkers still get partially leveled when struck with a direct attack. She would be able to destroy them midflight with little issue with a super missile. She has also destroyed Bendezium which is much tougher, though with the use of a power bomb. Point is Ceratanium by itself wouldn't be able to withstand her stronger arsenal and the Metal Blades themselves have no known durability feats so it shouldn't be assumed that their durability is augmented in any way.

 

[Newendigo]

Precog countering a Time Stop sounds far to fetched though.

 

[Ottermonk]

Normally no, but Mega Man can't really attack out of it or any other version of his time stops. He can just reposition himself in most cases and shoot his uncharged gun in one. Precog would let Samus know that he moved and can dodge his subsequent attack and his basic fire wouldn't do too much. It really wouldn't help him score a definitive blow, but it could help him dodge and move about.

 

[The_Smashor]

Composite Mega Man (Witch is being used) Can actually use attacks during time stop

 

[Theglassman12]

@smashor that's up in the air if he's willing to use the timestop since we never see him use any of the secondary weapons in character right off the bat. It also doesn't help that his arsenal is so big that the chances of him using timestop is even slimmer.

 

[The_Smashor]

In most interpritations he's pretty quick to use Time Stop against Quick Man. Him not normally using Time Stop is just plot-induced stupidity and the fact he lacks it in most fights. And in SAR he can shoot while using Time Stopper. Not to mention if Mega Man is in a pinch, as shown in the Rockman World manga, he will quickly use the time stopper when given the chance.

 

[Theglassman12]

He uses it against someone who's weak to that, but has he shown to use it on anyone else other than him?

 

[X_Squared]

Black Holes: Okay, I get it. Samus's Gravity Suit would make it so that she wouldn't be pulled in or damaged by Mega Man's black holes. But, they could still be useful in sucking up her projectiles (With Black Hole swallowing them and then blasting them back out again in the form of a wave of energy) and serving as distractions for Mega Man as he thinks of another plan of attack.

Centaur Flash: I was wrong about the durability negation thing so that's out. Time Stopper and Centaur Flash are similar, but not at all the same. Yes, they both stop time but CF does so in only a split second to release a flash of light that destroys anything in the area by creating a, and I quote, "dimensional distortion." So no, it's not a full-fledged time stop weapon like Time Stopper. Also, CF only damaging Wind Man is just game mechanics I mean think about it realistically, a space-time weapon only effecting one boss in the entire game? That makes no sense. It's similar to how Mega Man's Atomic Fire in Mega Man 2 (which is hotter than the Earth's core) harmlessly bounces off of Bubble Man meanwhile the rest of the Robot Masters including much stronger ones, like Quick Man and Crash Man, can be harmed by it. The whole thing is just nonsense and screams mechanics.

Concrete Shot: Actually, it is a transmutation weapon. It's generally accepted here too that it is. If that's not enough, then this weapon actually turned magma into concrete and even Galaxy Man's black holes in Mega Man 9.

Astro Crush: All right, I see that happening.

Metal Blade and other ceratanium blades: Metal Blades (ceratanium) don't have no known durability feats? You do realize that Mega Man's armor is also composed of ceratanium? The same armor that tanked planet-busting attacks, absolute zero ice, fires hotter than the Earth's core, environments on other planets, etc. Also just in case, please don't point to Archie Comics either where Mega Man's armor does shatter as that's not even canon to Mega Man Classic. The real question is though, can his ceratanium blades cut through Samus's armor or deal any damage at all? That's what I'm really curious about.

 

[Ottermonk]

Black Holes: Fair point about being able to suck up attack such as Missles, but she has alot more of those then he has uses of this weapon.

Centaur Flash: I am still not convinced it would affect Samus all too much, and even if it did the damage caused by it is minimal. The "Time Stop" portion of the ability is the important aspect of this for its utility. Composite Mega Man can apperently attack in frozen time which would help out alot.

Concrete Shot: I was wrong about the transmutation thing which I think is REALLY DUMB, but you are right. It doesn't effect things tougher enemies instantly and requires several shots to do so though it does above average damage. Samus is shown to be incredibly durable compared to even the robot masters and she can remake her suit if it were somehow transformed. Affecting the "black hole" is either game mechanics or proving the weapon isn't a real black hole. You can't turn gravity aka one of the fundamental forces into concrete without being 2-A or something. Lastly magma turning into rock is just magma cooling down which can be explained by pouring cool concrete onto it.

Ceratanium (Metal Blades): Wasn't going to mention the Comics at all. I was going to point out that that is a logical fallocy. Saying that Mega Man and his Metal Blades has the same kind of durability because they are made out of the same kind of metal is like saying an Airplane is as durable as a Soda Can cause there are both made out of Aluminum. Also Mega Man is made up of an Ceratanium alloy and not pure Ceratanium so saying they have the same hardness or properties also doesn't make sense. You have to judge the material on its own merits. Lastly a blade's cutting ability is determined by it's sharpness and the force behind it, not its hardness. The hardness is only for maintaining the sharpness when it makes contact with something.

To your actual point; Samus has taken hit from blades, claws and other slashing/piercing attacks before. Most of the time her armor can endure it with no visible damage most notably when she fought Knight when he used his Guillotine Blast. However once in the Manga (Samus and Joey or its continuation Metroid EX, don't remember and can't find the scans anymore) the tip of her arm cannon was cut off and repair itself rapidly. The only other time we have seen it get cut is when part had to be surgically removed in Fusion. To finally answer you question in my opinion; would the metal blade cut her? Yes it would hurt and could nick her suit but it wouldn't take off a limb or bisect her. Her suit would then repair itself and allow her to continue fighting.

 

[X_Squared]

@Ottermonk Ah okay thanks for answering that, I just thought it was a good idea to bring up the whole ceratanium thing. Also, you're right about the Metal Blades and armor I completely forgot at the time that Mega Man's armor is entirely different while the blades are in fact just pure ceratanium. As for Concrete Shot, yeah bringing up the whole black hole business wasn't the best idea and magma maaaybe not, but it's still considered transmutation. Anyway glad everything's cleared up.

@The Smashor Yeah it's true, in Super Adventuer Rockman he did stop time and was still able to attack. But could he switch to his other weapons? I completely forgot honestly.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Bumping before the necro

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

going with Samus FRA

 

[The_Calaca]

Megaman FRA.

 

[LordGinSama]

Megaman for the reasons above.

 

[Theglassman12]

You mean the reasons based on "more advantages" which I debunked?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, a draw was the conclusion. Still a fairly awesome match. Keep in mind that Samus would blitz if speed was unequalized.

 

[X_Squared]

Though if Composite Mega Man can attack during time stop, I don't see why he can't just activate it and bombard Samus with his absolute zero ice, Metal Blades and other weapons. Not saying it's exactly something that guarantess victory as I'm sure she'll survive but it's an advantage still. I don't see Samus blitzing Mega Man if speed was unequalized either though let's not get into that. Regardless, I'm also willing to have this as a draw / inconclusive at this point. Hopefully future games like Mega Man 11 or another Metroid game can add something to their respective character to make an outcome to this debate clearer.

 

[Theglassman12]

Absolute zero ice isn't going to help against Samus.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Mega Man being able to attack during Time Stop was debunked iirc; it literally resumes, the second Mega Man starts to attack. Additionally, Mega Man doesn't lead with Time Stop. Samus will definitely know when Mega Man's going to stop Time since Mega Man doesn't lead with it; she'll definitely Activate Electro Armor to give her temporary invulnerability right before time stop. Additionally, Samus still has 40,000x faster Reaction time; meaning her thought process is that much faster. Mega Man would be able to stop time in 0.000000000013344 seconds where as Samus would be able to react in 0.0000000000000003336 seconds.

Anyway speed is equalized and that's assuming Mega Man leads with Time Stop, which he clearly doesn't. Meaning Samus will have plenty of time to react and prepare time stop before Mega Man uses it. Additionally, as mentioned above, Samus does have resistance to most of Mega Man's hax. And yeah, considering it's 6-7, and the thread is long over due, I suppose I could close the thread and we consider this inconclusive?