Medea Pidith: Type 9 Large Size

[YungManzi]

I propose that Medea Pideth Machina should have a second key for her true form; which is flat out 2-C, has Large Size (Type 9), Immortality (Type 9, for her first key), and Higher-Dimensional Existence. The quotes and references I'm using are primarily from Chapter 362 of the Web Novel. I will go step by step through Ark's dialogue with Naofumi which explains this.

“But… she’s already descended to the world, right?”

“Yeah, and she’s dragged eight different worlds together.” (Naofumi)

“It’s probable that in the world that you’re trying to go to, the conditions needed for her to descend was the linking of eight worlds.”

“I don’t know the exact logic behind it, but that seemed to be the case.” (Naofumi)

~ Or else, all she would have to do is come down and kill everyone in order to level.

1) Eight worlds (Currently accepted as universal space-time continuums in their own right) needed to be linked together in order for Medea to descend.

Now, why was this the case? We were given an analogy by Ark.

That’s right. Let’s compare this all to a paper. You can place a light stone on it, right? But what about if the stone were heavier? You’ll need a paper thick enough to support it. The paper is the world, and the stone, god. No, it’s probably completely different, but I guess if she just came down as she pleased, there would be terrible aftereffects.”

2) In this analogy given by Ark, just Medea descending upon the world would cause terrible aftereffects and would be as if placing a heavy stone on a sheet of paper.

Naofumi expands on this in his head.

The world has its own width, and a set amount of weight it can carry.

She gets it just big enough to sustain her before coming down.

3) Here Naofumi says the world (Being space/time) has a set amount of weight it can carry and would need to become big enough to sustain the weight of Medea. Specifically mentioning the world's width with regards to how much it can sustain her.

“The one who latched onto your world seems to be playing. Like a game, she makes the countries and people of the world fight just to see who will win. And regardless of whatever country comes out on top, if she senses a threat coming closer, she’ll immediately suck up all the power in the world, pack up, and run away."

~"To put it simply, it’s devolved down to a situation where the world will be destroyed at the push of a button. It’s not within the scope where it can be saved. Too late. Even with her grand talks of the past, present, or future, once the world itself is gone, there’s no reversing time. There’s only something like migrating to another world.”

4) Medea could absorb the power and destroy the world in question whenever she wanted to, and was mostly just playing around (Supporting full-on 2-C). Ark described her destroying the past, present, and future of the world like pushing a button.
Also, keep in mind that the "world" being referred to in the quote is the 8 linked together worlds that medea is attempting to descend upon. Refer back to the first quote, in the same chapter, where Naofumi said she dragged eight different worlds together.

5) In her final battle against Naofumi and Raphtalia (And co.) she refers to her true incarnation being in "the outside worlds".

“Even if you defeat me, the true incarnation of me is still in the outside worlds, so–” (Medea)~ Chapter 374

What exactly does outside worlds even mean here? It likely refers to this.

Here? Would you understand if I called it the dimensional rift?”

“What?” (Naofumi)

“It’s the space between one world and another. Each and every light you see floating in the sky is but another world.” ~Chapter 361

“This is the rift you can reach from any world. You seem to have come from a world without magic, so I guess if I put it simply, this would be space? Well, something similar to that. A rule-less world of disorder. A normal human would be guaranteed to get lost here.”~Same Chapter

The "outside worlds" likely refers to the space between worlds mentioned in this chapter seeing as, referring to the second and third quotes, Medea's true existence hadn't yet descended upon the world as it had too much weight, but it was close enough to it that going away from it would be like running away (So she's not already far away from the world).
All this is my convoluted way to say that this "outside worlds" quote is not referring to her being in other universes, but rather outside of universes entirely.

TLDR;​

1) Large Size (Type 9)/2-C AP for her second key: Medea needed to link together 8 worlds in order for them to sustain the weight of her existence, and could instantly destroy those worlds at any time she wanted.

2) Type 9 Immortality for her Empowered fragment key, as her true incarnation is in the space between worlds.

 

[Vietthai96]

I don't agree with HDE, to be fair here, i don't any evidences that Medea's being possesses more than normal 3 dimensinal axes, did she merge herself with space-time continuum???, the quote about her power is meaningless even with the contexts present here

I'm currently neutral with the rest

 

[YungManzi]

I don't agree with HDE, to be fair here, i don't any evidences that Medea's being possesses more than normal 3 dimensinal axes, did she merge herself with space-time continuum???, the quote about her power is meaningless even with the contexts present here

Power has nothing to do with HDE. The HDE is because her weight is bigger than what a universal space-time continuum could support and she needed to link 8 universal space-time continuums together just to exist within them without destroying them. That's the argument.
She needed to turn a Low 2-C structure into a 2-C structure to withstand the weight of her existence.

Also, I was under the impression that being bigger/heavier than a Low 2-C structure could qualify for HDE, if it can't and you actually need to be fused with or embody some kind of space-time continuum, then I'll concede that point. (Although being type 9 large size without HDE is strange)
Edit:
Good thing I forgot to put HDE in the TLDR.

 

[Vietthai96]

Power has nothing to do with HDE. The HDE is because her weight is bigger than what a universal space-time continuum could support and she needed to link 8 universal space-time continuums together just to exist within them without destroying them. That's the argument.
She needed to turn a Low 2-C structure into a 2-C structure to withstand the weight of her existence.

Also, I was under the impression that being bigger/heavier than a Low 2-C structure could qualify for HDE, if it can't and you actually need to be fused with or embody some kind of space-time continuum, then I'll concede that point. (Although being type 9 large size without HDE is strange)
Edit:
Good thing I forgot to put HDE in the TLDR.

No, bigger without contexts hardly qualify for anything, heavier than Low 2-C grant you Immeasurable Lifting Strength however. Unless contexts mean different thing and it is just flavorfully talking about her power.

You can be HDE without Large Size, so being Large Size without HDE is not out of ordinary

 

[YungManzi]

Unless contexts mean different thing and it is just flavorfully talking about her power.

This is certainly what DT would argue, so might as well make this argument now. I can assure you, there's no additional context to be had here.
I essentially quoted half of the chapter. Not a single one makes reference to her power when talking about her descending/manifesting.
Actually, when you look up "power" for this chapter here are all the statements that include it. There are 10 of them.

Spoiler: Quotes

“But, I mean… rules are relative to each world. What’s right and wrong is dependent on the person, right? It’s not like I don’t see that. And to fulfill a sense of justice, there’s plenty a world that would lend its power and cause the fall of another.”

“In your world’s words, would you fight an armed criminal empty-handed? In order to replenish the power expended saving the world, they’ll probably use some of it as fodder.”

“The one who latched onto your world seems to be playing. Like a game, she makes the countries and people of the world fight just to see who will win. And regardless of whatever country comes out on top, if she senses a threat coming closer, she’ll immediately suck up all the power in the world, pack up, and run away.”

“I’ve lent a little bit of my power to that one. I sometimes lend power to children like you too.”

“Will it be money? Reviving the dead? Power? Having the one you like look your way? Or could it be… immortality?”

“I gave that world over the power to kill those immortal."

I see. And, in the worlds I’ve stopped by, so that they can manage on their own, so with opponents of that level, they’ll be able to manage to some extent, I lend them my power. The reason you were able to survive after getting hit by a conceptual attack is probably due to that…”

It’s probable that the power he lent that world was that bottle Fitoria kept in the ruins.

Atlas did say that was the last bit of his power.

You will notice that with every reference to power in this chapter where these statements come from, there's not even a reference to Medea's power, besides her blowing up the worlds and absorbing their power. Nowhere does it say the world cannot sustain her power, or energy, or magic, or might. It Literally just says it cannot sustain her weight lol.

 

[Vietthai96]

Hmm, i think you can add Immeasurable Lifting Strength for her True form then

 

[YungManzi]

bump

 

[DontTalkDT]

Disagree.

First, by our recently clarified standards for fused timelines destroying a world fused from 8 timelines is very clearly only low 2-C.

Second, it's not an issue of size. In the analogy the issue is always "weight", not size. In fact, the thing regarding which this is stated isn't some "true form" but the very form that she ends up manifesting. Otherwise she could have manifested that to begin with.
This is simply a deal of power too great for the universe to contain.

Third, the "true form" needs no separate key. It's part of the same entity and aside from being somewhere in the multiverse nothing is ever said about it. None of the attributes you describe were stated specifically for that fragment of Medea. Quite the opposite, by all indications they were all about the fragment Naofumi fights.

I still believe Hive Mind Type 2 is the most accurate representation for an entity that has split its soul into multiple pieces in multiple bodies which are all "her".

 

[DontTalkDT]

Let me add that the whole weight thing is definitely an analogy. It starts out with the whole "Imagine the universe is a sheet of paper and Medea a stone"-thing. This is not literally about Medea's weight either. It just is a metaphor for the regular universe being incapable of enduring her existence without first being "strengthened".

 

[YungManzi]

Let me add that the whole weight thing is definitely an analogy. It starts out with the whole "Imagine the universe is a sheet of paper and Medea a stone"-thing. This is not literally about Medea's weight either. It just is a metaphor for the regular universe being incapable of enduring her existence without first being "strengthened".

1) If weight is just being used as an analogy here, with the universe being the sheet of paper, then what exactly is the weight of the rock in the analogy as it relates to Medea?

2) Is there even any indication that weight isn't what's directly being compared here? if so, where is that indication?

 

[YungManzi]

Disagree.

First, by our recently clarified standards for fused timelines destroying a world fused from 8 timelines is very clearly only low 2-C.

Not sure where it says that. It's talking about timelines fused at only specific point in time or that can be reached physically from what I see, neither of which these worlds qualify as; as Ark literally says she would destroy the past, present, and future like pushing a button.

Per default universes are assumed to have separate three-dimensional spaces, but should a piece of fiction demonstrate the opposite destruction of several timelines connected in such a way would only be Low 2-C (Universe level+).

^Unless you're talking about this, which is a fallacious argument, since the timelines didn't start out connected and was something that was actively done by the character in question. Unless you want to argue a standard universe in Shield Hero isn't Low 2-C, my point still stands since them being connected is via the power of a character and not part of the verse cosmology. Three-dimensional spaces being connected is not the standard of the verse, and even when they're connected, as you know, they still can't physically travel between them.

Second, it's not an issue of size. In the analogy the issue is always "weight", not size.

Weight and Size are Synonyms.

In fact, the thing regarding which this is stated isn't some "true form" but the very form that she ends up manifesting.

Can you prove this?

 

[Dragonite007]

so, to put it simply, she's so fat the universe can't stand her

 

[DontTalkDT]

Not sure where it says that. It's talking about timelines fused at only specific point in time or that can be reached physically from what I see, neither of which these worlds qualify as; as Ark literally says she would destroy the past, present, and future like pushing a button.


^Unless you're talking about this, which is a fallacious argument, since the timelines didn't start out connected and was something that was actively done by the character in question. Unless you want to argue a standard universe in Shield Hero isn't Low 2-C, my point still stands since them being connected is via the power of a character and not part of the verse cosmology. Three-dimensional spaces being connected is not the standard of the verse, and even when they're connected, as you know, they still can't physically travel between them.

No I'm talking about this:

Other way around, if two timelines get merged into one, then they are the same universe only after they were fused.
In those cases, the destruction of any one timeline is only counted if it was not connected to any other timeline for an infinite amount of time. Otherwise, if there are several timelines none of which are separate for an infinite amount of time, they would all be counted as just one timeline for the purpose of Tiering their destruction or creation.

The state the timeline is in when Medea destroys it is that 8 timelines existed separately for a finite time (from big bang up until she fuses them) and then continue on as one timeline for all the future. (Of course, Raphtalia actually splits them again, but that's not the state they are in when the Medea destruction statements happens. The statements are made on the assumption of her erasing the fused world)

So yeah, the standards I recently wrote make it quote clear that this scenario is Low 2-C.

Weight and Size are Synonyms.

Ah, yes, I'm 1.8m heavy and 65kg tall.

Can you prove this?

The "true form" is mentioned first a few lines before Medea's death. All the other statements you bring are from chapters before that.
Anything Naofumi says in those chapters can't be about the "true form", because he has no knowledge of its existence up until Medea mentions it in Chapter 374.
Ark, meanwhile, also gives no indication of knowledge. When he talks about Medea, he clearly means the version in the Shield Hero Universe

“Want me to go beat her? You won’t have any part in it, but it serves to benefit both of us.”

“If you get close, isn’t the world done for?” (Naofumi)

“That’s because she can sense protecting worlds. I… can’t be sensed by the Spirits, so I can go undetected to some extent. I think it’ll be fine.”


He did say he can’t be sensed by Spirits.

It’s safe to assume there’s something special about him.


“But protecting the world will be difficult. If I’m right before her eyes, then of course she’ll notice me, and if I try defeating her from afar, I’ll end up erasing all foreign matter in that world along with her. I’m not that skillful. In the worst case, she’ll disappear along with the world.”

“Foreign matter? Can’t you just erase all of that from the world?” (Naofumi)

“Wait, what I mean by foreign matter is all those who came from another world. Those whose bodies are disjointed from the world’s truth, and a few other things. I’ll end up eliminating them regardless if they be friend or foe. That will probably end with the deaths of their Heroes too…”

Like when he debates getting close to her in the same sense as getting close to the world, despite the true form not being there.
Additionally, Ark is takling with Naofumi of who we know he means the Medea in the SH Universe. It would make little sense for Ark and Naofumi to coverse with each other, but Naofumi asks about one fragment of Medea and Ark answers with information about another fragment of Medea. They should be talking about the same version.

 

[YungManzi]

Just realized Medea already has type 9 immortality. Has she always had that? Lol.