MCU super soldier/spidey tier upgrade

[darkphantom9805]

I think the super soldier/spidey tier characters are heavily underrated reasons for this

The mark 1 is tony absolute weakest suit and was stated to be more powerful than this

Super soldier tiers can repeatedly stagger and even damage stronger suits

Bucky was crushing his gauntlet at one point and would’ve even ripped out his arc reactor had tony not used a uni beam

Cap damaged war machine and a weapon designed for his use

Cap even survives a uni beam

Last feat cap in an official mcu canon tie in comic with the canon stamp cap punches tony helmet off and breaks it

In the end I think all super soldiers/spidey tier characters should scale above where ever the missile feat is

Don’t know if this is a good calc but I found this https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Aguywhodoesthings/Iron_Man:_Jericho_explosion

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

How strong are Stark’s missiles?

 

[darkphantom9805]

How strong are Stark’s missiles?

Don’t know if there is an official calc but the Jericho missile should 100% be above the tier they are now

 

[Dinobot1996]

How strong are Stark’s missiles?

The Jericho missiles have this calculation.

 

[Ednaxel2]

The Jericho missiles have this calculation.

You beat me to it lol

Also if this gets accepted then Tom's Spider-Man would out-stat nearly every other version in terms of speed and AP except EMH lmao. Anyways the OP makes sense so agree

 

[darkphantom9805]

Got this to the Jericho missile is actually early repulsor tech meaning it makes even more sense that his future tech would scale above to support the other statement

 

[ByArrow]

Super soldier tiers can repeatedly stagger and even damage stronger suits

Cap and Bucky couldn't hurt Tony without using shield. And Tony held back for most of the fight because he didn't want to kill Cap.

Bucky was crushing his gauntlet at one point and would’ve even ripped out his arc reactor had tony not used a uni beam

That's LS, not AP. Bucky grabbed the arc reactor and pulled with all his might. And that was with the Bionic Arm. Bionic Arm and normal statistics are handled separately.

Cap damaged war machine and a weapon designed for his use

Cap's attack didn't damaged War Machine, and If you watch the scene in slow motion, War Machine's gun broke on impact with the ground when War Machine fell to the ground, not when Cap hit him.

Cap even survives a uni beam

Uni beam has variable AP. It can be high and low depending on how much energy Tony gives. And in this scene Tony had no intention of seriously hurting Cap, so he didn't fire a full power uni beam. There was no reason for him to fire it.

In the end I think all super soldiers/spidey tier characters should scale above where ever the missile feat is

If these are the only things you have, no it should not scale

 

[darkphantom9805]

Cap and Bucky couldn't hurt Tony without using the arm and shield. And Tony held back for most of the fight because he didn't want to kill Cap.

The arm which cap and spidey overpowered it’s called down scaling lol if you don’t think they scale above even the mark 1 that’s delusional also holding back doesn’t change the stats for suit itself nor increases its durability also the shield doesn’t upgrade his striking force all the force from the shield comes from him

That's LS, not AP. Bucky grabbed the arc reactor and pulled with all his might. And that was with the Bionic Arm. Bionic Arm and normal statistics are handled separately

it’s actually a durability and it is a striking feat because puncturing into it to for Bucky arm anyway it’s still strength because he’s breaking something that scales above it all his might is still irrelevant nobody is saying they are equal but they downscale from a suit which scales above also the arm that again has been overpowered

Cap's attack didn't damaged War Machine, and If you watch the scene in slow motion, War Machine's gun broke on impact with the ground when War Machine fell to the ground, not when Cap hit him.

your trolling right ? like I knew peoples would cope but this is ridiculous it means cap hit him so hard he broke the weapon lol

Uni beam has variable AP. It can be high and low depending on how much energy Tony gives. And in this scene Tony had no intention of seriously hurting Cap, so he didn't fire a full power uni beam. There was no reason for him to fire it.

It does but the uni beam is tony strongest weapon in his entire suit to think a uni beam scales below the mark 1 when we know his reactor received several upgrades especially when he built the suit with a box of scraps also tony did have an intention because they we’re trying fight and to say ohh they weren’t about to take it serious they definitely were banner was even about to and threatened to go hulk mode cap was charging at him an attempt to stop him from making vision and was about to lay tony out

these are the only things you have, no it should not scale

Yes they should because anyone with common sense knows that they scale above the mark 1 and There is more but I don’t need more mark 1 absolute weakest suit super soldiers downscale from superior suits

 

[Ednaxel2]

The arm which cap overpowered it’s called down scaling lol if you don’t think they scale above even the mark 1 that’s delusional also holding back doesn’t change the stats for suit itself nor increases its durability

Peter was also able to overpower Bucky's arm casually, who Cap is superior to, who Bucky should also be comparable to

 

[darkphantom9805]

Peter was also able to overpower Bucky's arm casually, who Cap is superior to, who Bucky should also be comparable to

I told you what was going to happen we’d get people like this who literally tried to tell me that the ground broke war machine and not the fact that cap kicked him into the ground that logic just blows my mind

Both cap and Peter has overpowered Bucky arm to

 

[Ednaxel2]

I told you what was going to happen we’d get people like this who literally tried to tell me that the ground broke war machine and not the fact that cap kicked him into the ground that logic just blows my mind

Infinity Ultron level ground obviously

 

[darkphantom9805]

Infinity Ultron level ground obviously

You think we can use this for evidence to?

 

[Ednaxel2]

You think we can use this for evidence to?

This should be saved for a future crt, lets just try to get this one accepted first

 

[darkphantom9805]

This should be saved for a future crt, lets just try to get this one accepted first

I mean it can be used for both because anyone with remotely any shred of common sense tell us it scales above the mark 1

 

[Ednaxel2]

I mean it can be used for both because anyone with remotely any shred of common sense tell us it scales above the mark 1

Nah Mark 1 >>>>>> Hulk Buster 2.0, now that's common sense

 

[ByArrow]

The arm which cap overpowered it’s called down scaling lol if you don’t think they scale above even the mark 1 that’s delusional also holding back doesn’t change the stats for suit itself nor increases its durability also the shield doesn’t upgrade his striking force all the force comes from the shield comes from him

I rewatched the scene to make sure and Bucky can't damage Tony even with the arm. Tony's hold back drastically changes his attack power. Because Tony's uni beams can be very weak or very powerful depending on the energy he gives. Yes it does. Go look at Cap's profile

it’s actually a durability feat to for Bucky arm and it’s still strength because he’s breaking something that scales above it all his might is still irrelevant nobody is saying they are equal but they downscale from a suit which scales above also the arm that again has been overpowered

If you think it is that strong, do the calculation or ask someone to do it and if it is acceptable, then we will talk.

It does but the uni beam is tony strongest weapon in his entire suit to think a uni beam scales below the mark 1 when we know his reactor received several upgrades especially when he built the suit with a box of scraps also tony did have an intention because they we’re trying fight and to say ohh we’re they weren’t about to take it serious they definitely were banner was even about to and threatened to go hulk mode cap was charging at him an attempt to stop him from making vision and was about to lay tony out

Uni beam may be one of tony's most powerful weapons, but that doesn't change the fact that it has variable AP. The less energy Tony gives out, the weaker he is. It can even be weaker than mark 1 because uni beam has no lower limit. Tony's upgrades to the arc reactor increase the maximum power he can attack, not the minimum power he can attack. They had no intention to kill, maim or hospitalize each other. They just wanted to stop each other. You don't use lethal force to stop someone. And banner was much more angry and aggressive than the others because he was hulk, that's why he threatened to become hulk, but it doesn't mean that the others were that aggressive.


And the level you're trying to raise is way above the level where these characters are constantly depicted and constantly perform feats.

 

[ByArrow]

You beat me to it lol

Also if this gets accepted then Tom's Spider-Man would out-stat nearly every other version in terms of speed and AP except EMH lmao. Anyways the OP makes sense so agree

If this is accepted, they will to this level due to the scaling chain, so tom's spiderman will not be superior (I mean Andrew and Tobey, not the others.)

 

[darkphantom9805]

I rewatched the scene to make sure and Bucky can't damage Tony even with the arm. Tony's hold back drastically changes his attack power. Because Tony's uni beams can be very weak or very powerful depending on the energy he gives. Yes it does. Go look at Cap's profile

This is flat out wrong you went and watch the scene just to ignore the scenes I guess Bucky did damage him he literally broke his gauntlet and was about to yank out his arc reactor cap broke his butt and was damaging his suit with every hit as shown by his HUD screen and if again tony did not fire a uni beam yes I agree Tony holds back but it’s not as much as your thinking tony was furious because Bucky killed his mom and stuff he even fired a uni beam well aware that Bucky could have been killed so again to think this angry tony is going to fire his strongest weapon in his suit has and hold back so much that it’s weaker then mark 1 is ridiculous

Also I just posted a scan down below for everyone to see in a official canon mcu stamp approved tie in comic cap punched and broke his helmet so he scales

If you think it is that strong, do the calculation or ask someone to do it and if it is acceptable, then we will talk.

we don’t need to talk if you don’t want to talk you could just not reply here?

Uni beam may be one of tony's most powerful weapons, but that doesn't change the fact that it has variable AP. The less energy Tony gives out, the weaker he is. It can even be weaker than mark 1 because uni beam has no lower limit. Tony's upgrades to the arc reactor increase the maximum power he can attack, not the minimum power he can attack. They had no intention to kill, maim or hospitalize each other. They just wanted to stop each other. You don't use lethal force to stop someone. And banner was much more angry and aggressive than the others because he was hulk, that's why he threatened to become hulk, but it doesn't mean that the others were that aggressive.


And the level you're trying to raise is way above the level where these characters are constantly depicted and constantly perform feats.

we know it has variable ap but he’s again not going to use his most powerful weapon in that situation unless he needed power he already had a standard Repulsor also he was literally incredibly close to getting layed out by cap since he didn’t fully have his suit on and cap charged at him no intention to kill doesn’t mean they are suddenly making himself many many many many many many many times weaker this is exactly like Bucky cap fought tony was clearly trying and received multiple injuries he literally thought cap himself was about kill him in the end

It’s not where they constantly perform feats they are constantly way above that especially the spidey characters but I haven’t brought them out out cause it was mainly about super soldiers like I can show you some insane super soldier feats if you want but you definitely aren’t going to like them

 

[darkphantom9805]

Nah Mark 1 >>>>>> Hulk Buster 2.0, now that's common sense

It’s over for anyone who disagrees now in this official canon tie in comic cap punches his helmet and breaks it

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Based CRT. I agree with this CRT with the reasons that @darkphantom9805 provided above.

Also, offtopic, but uh... Low 7-B super soldiers and spideys makes more sense to me than 7-A GoTG, tbh.

 

[ByArrow]

This is flat out wrong you went and watch the scene just to ignore the scenes I guess Bucky did damage him he literally broke his gauntlet and was about to yank out his arc reactor cap broke his butt and was damaging his suit with every hit as shown by his HUD screen and if again tony did not fire a uni beam yes I agree Tony holds back but it’s not as much as your thinking tony was furious because Bucky killed his mom and stuff he even fired a uni beam well aware that Bucky could have been killed so again to think this angry tony is going to fire his strongest weapon in his suit has and hold back so much that it’s weaker then mark 1 is ridiculous

As I said before, I think it is LS feats and as I said before, calculate it or have someone calculate it. The HUD screen was previously giving red alerts due to damage from the shield. Not because of the damage from their punches at that moment. Even when the armor was not taking any damage, it gave a damage warning. And Bucky didn't do as much damage to Tony's glove as you think. Tony was able to use his glove for the rest of the fight. I'm not saying that Tony's attack that ripped Bucky's arm off was weaker than mark 1. I mean, without the shield they couldn't do any significant damage to him and Tony held himself for most of the fight because of Cap.

we know it has variable ap but he’s again not going to use his most powerful weapon in that situation unless he needed power he already had a standard Repulsor also he was literally incredibly close to getting layed out by cap since he didn’t fully have his suit on and cap charged at him no intention to kill doesn’t mean they are suddenly making himself many many many many many many many times weaker this is exactly like Bucky cap fought tony was clearly trying and received multiple injuries he literally thought cap himself was about kill him in the end

Tony started putting on his armor to protect himself for a possible fight. He hit Cap with the normal Repulsor and stopped Cap for a few seconds. And again, he didn't attack at full power here. Later in the scene when Cap was attacking him, when Tony turned towards Cap, there wasn't enough distance and time for him to raise the repulsor in his hand and fire it, so he fired the one in his chest to protect himself. Also, if Tony had used the uni beam at full power, Cap wouldn't have been able to get up immediately like he was hit with the normal Repulsor because one is standard and the other is his most powerful weapon. Unless you say they are on the same level

İ’s not where they constantly perform feats they are constantly way above that especially the spidey characters but I haven’t brought them out out cause it was mainly about super soldiers like I can show you some insane super soldier feats if you want but you definitely aren’t going to like them

If there are other feats, why don't you add them to the CRT. If you had, I wouldn't have argued so much. If you have arguments other than these, share them

 

[darkphantom9805]

If you had shared this earlier, we wouldn't have to argue so much.

I agree now

i didn’t have it earlier I was scanning the comics for my high tier spidey scaling and discovered this by accident

 

[Dinobot1996]

I'm not entirely sure about using the tie-in comic version of the helmet breaking scene, considering in the actual movie, it seemed like Cap needed to use his shield to actually break it.

 

[darkphantom9805]

I'm not entirely sure about using the tie-in comic version of the helmet breaking scene, considering in the actual movie, it seemed like Cap needed to use his shield to actually break it.

That’s because it’s the film they can’t actually have cap throwing blows that breaks his entire suit like that with every strike or the entire fight would’ve been over to quickly and obviously they comics won’t be exactly the same as films as one is a film and the other is a very short comic they have to cram events in

You can also argue exhaustion like the other person said in the tie in comic cap didn’t take nearly as many hits and injuries and the fight was much shorter

The official canon comic is 1 piece of evidence of top of many to support this

 

[Dinobot1996]

For what it's worth, I did find this statement from the Avengers junior novel, which might support the Mark 6 having Jericho-level weaponry:

Also, the Avengers script gives the Mark 7's missile systems an even more direct comparison to the Jericho:

 

[Excellence616]

What tier is proposed anyway?

 

[darkphantom9805]

What tier is proposed anyway?

The tier that the Jericho missile is from the calc above they should upscale from it but downscale from tony suit which also upscales from the missile

 

[Emerald]

Idk if it makes sense to scale Civil War's armor to the other ones since its stated that its not a combat armor and with limited repulsor capabilities, and it has no other feats other than fighting Cap and Bucky.
And ngl I feel like if you want to bump the Super Soldiers from 8-C to like High 7-C, you need more feats to back it up other than this one. Its a massive jump in power

 

[Baken384]

Heavily Disagree, the jump in power is pretty big and the feats of the Cap/Spidey tiers are consistently in Tier 8.

Its incredibly insane one would automatically think his Mark 1 suit is automatically stronger than the goddamn missile because of one statement, a statement that is literally CONTRADICTED in the movies
Tony Stark: That's because it's a miniaturized arc reactor. I got a big one powering my factory at home. It should keep the shrapnel out of my heart.
Yinsen: But what could it generate?
Tony Stark: If my math is right, and it always is, three gigajoules per second.
Yinsen: That could run your heart for 50 lifetimes.
Tony Stark: Yeah. Or something big for 15 minutes.
And the scene is then shifted to Tony's blueprints of Mark 1, ergo his arc reactor worth 3 gigajoules is powering up this armor. Unless in universe 3 Gigajoules is like EQUIVALENT to KILOTONS OF TNT.
We literally then see later on Mark 1 not busting down an Iron door within one hit, requiring multiple hits, High 7-C metal door? Then later on we saw Mark 1 getting overwhelmed by BULLETS and being forced on its knees but maybe its High 7-C Piercing damage.
It doesn't help that we have a statement in the profile that has Mark IV being 8 gigajoules per second, a consistent thing from the movie when we get a box of scraps version 3 gigajoules, to 8 gigajoules built in a good place.

 

[Shadow-Ragna]

I mean...it shows in the movie how weak and fragile MK 1 Armour is since it took bullets to get him on the floor. Also it seems slow clunky, unable to fly properly and also took some time to knock a door down where other armours took faster time.

Plus as Baken said unless in MCU that 3 Gigajoules is like equivalent to kilotons of TNT then that feat you are suggesting seems kinda weird.

Bucky, Cap and Spidey did go against Iron Man's latest armours but Iron Man was holding back on them in some cases and didn't there be one scene where Iron Man used the Uni Beam and blew off Bucky's robot arm? Showing that Bucky could've died against him? I may be wrong in all of this so just correct me if so.

 

[Emerald]

Bucky, Cap and Spidey did go against Iron Man's latest armours but Iron Man was holding back on them in some cases and didn't there be one scene where Iron Man used the Uni Beam and blew off Bucky's robot arm? Showing that Bucky could've died against him? I may be wrong in all of this so just correct me if so.

Iron Man was holding back and using armor not made for combat with suppressed blasts. His uni beam is 10x stronger than his normal blasts so not really an anti feat

 

[Shadyboi0]

High 7-C MK I? I don't know...

 

[Ednaxel2]

I think it's better if you find a statement like this for any of his other suits later down the line, it'd be more consistent

 

[darkphantom9805]

Idk if it makes sense to scale Civil War's armor to the other ones since its stated that its not a combat armor and with limited repulsor capabilities, and it has no other feats other than fighting Cap and Bucky.
And ngl I feel like if you want to bump the Super Soldiers from 8-C to like High 7-C, you need more feats to back it up other than this one. Its a massive jump in power

non combat is unquantifiable nerf and you can’t prove it’s weaker then the mark 1 literally the weakest suit he’s ever made we don’t know what that applies to as the suit is clearly useable for combat with missiles repulsor uni beam an ai that adapts to fighting styles etc

 

[darkphantom9805]

I think it's better if you find a statement like this for any of his other suits later down the line, it'd be more consistent

Don’t know if there is anymore but we have stuff like ock destroying nano armor and obviously the web feats I can post

 

[Dalesean027]

Heavily Disagree, the jump in power is pretty big and the feats of the Cap/Spidey tiers are consistently in Tier 8.

Its incredibly insane one would automatically think his Mark 1 suit is automatically stronger than the goddamn missile because of one statement, a statement that is literally CONTRADICTED in the movies
Tony Stark: That's because it's a miniaturized arc reactor. I got a big one powering my factory at home. It should keep the shrapnel out of my heart.
Yinsen: But what could it generate?
Tony Stark: If my math is right, and it always is, three gigajoules per second.
Yinsen: That could run your heart for 50 lifetimes.
Tony Stark: Yeah. Or something big for 15 minutes.
And the scene is then shifted to Tony's blueprints of Mark 1, ergo his arc reactor worth 3 gigajoules is powering up this armor. Unless in universe 3 Gigajoules is like EQUIVALENT to KILOTONS OF TNT.
We literally then see later on Mark 1 not busting down an Iron door within one hit, requiring multiple hits, High 7-C metal door? Then later on we saw Mark 1 getting overwhelmed by BULLETS and being forced on its knees but maybe its High 7-C Piercing damage.
It doesn't help that we have a statement in the profile that has Mark IV being 8 gigajoules per second, a consistent thing from the movie when we get a box of scraps version 3 gigajoules, to 8 gigajoules built in a good place.

Thank you for being the voice of reason here OP also complete disingenuously ignores how the civil war Iron Man armor is noted to be a much weaker non combat armor so it shouldn't even be used as justification either


Its already been said here to but not all unibeams are the same tier and that one in the OP was just lobbed out barely instantly with no charge and less than half of the suit on so that's clearly not something I'd deem tier 7 lol.

You think we can use this for evidence to?

This isn't really valid evidence either since we don't scale them to the Hulkbuster and tackling it isn't really an AP feat, all that means is like 20 of those guys overpowering it with weight to get it to the ground and tackle it.

For what it's worth, I did find this statement from the Avengers junior novel, which might support the Mark 6 having Jericho-level weaponry:

Also, the Avengers script gives the Mark 7's missile systems an even more direct comparison to the Jericho:

I mean these missiles can also just be calculated as well and trying to scale off of said statements really opens up another can of worms if ya believe that since its clearly only drawing from the fact that in the scene where Iron Man actually fights the Chitauri ya know the scene where the novel statement is from its noted to be "like" the jericho missiles not because he's launching nukes but like the jericho missiles he's got dozens of miniaturized missiles firing off from him.


Something when ya clearly go look at isn't them going wow look iron man has dozens of nuke level missiles than he's going to fire literally right over his tower that will inevitably blow up everything he tried to protrct from shields nukes...nope instead its more of wow what advanced missile tech having super miniaturized misssiles that can split off and idk track Chitauri...

 

[Dalesean027]

@Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @KLOL506 @DarkDragonMedeus @Emirp sumitpo

 

[Baken384]

Thank you for being the voice of reason here OP also complete disingenuously ignores how the civil war Iron Man armor is noted to be a much weaker non combat armor so it shouldn't even be used as justification either

Crazy how the Government forced Tony to make a Noncombat armor with limited repulsor capability to comply with the law that is supposed to regulate heroes and keep citizens safe and that non combat armor still happens to be stronger than a missile that can level a town, how counter intuitive..

 

[Dalesean027]

Crazy how the Government forced Tony to make a Noncombat armor with limited repulsor capability to comply with the law that is supposed to regulate heroes and keep citizens safe and that non combat armor still happens to be stronger than a missile that can level a town, how counter intuitive..

Large Town at that and with just one mini missile apparently ...

 

[Emerald]

non combat is unquantifiable nerf and you can’t prove it’s weaker then the mark 1 literally the weakest suit he’s ever made we don’t know what that applies to as the suit is clearly useable for combat with missiles repulsor uni beam an ai that adapts to fighting styles etc

Since is non combat we have no idea where it scales without Super Soldier scaling, and besides Mark 1 is like wall level at best, shown at the movie and some statements