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[MCU] Possibly Controversial 7D Cosmology Upgrade

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I noticed that the MCU Cosmology page was very outdated, and no one tried updating it, so...

6e9627_076f3cbccc1444f9bf745b78f65b82f0~mv2.jpg



Premise

I don't consider myself an expert, and I certainly don't think this model is perfect. That said, it's the result of extensive research and logical reasoning, to which I've dedicated a lot of time. Feel free to correct me if there's anything wrong.

Key Definitions​

To make things easier for everyone, it would be best if we were all on the same page when it comes to terminology in this case, especially since Marvel itself isn’t consistent with its own terms.

A universe is the region of spacetime in which objects and beings are confined. For example, 616 and 838 each have their own disconnected area of three-dimensional space, and travel between them through that space is not possible.

A timeline is the series of causes and effects associated with a universe; essentially, a sequence of events.

In most contexts, the terms universe, timeline, and reality are used interchangeably.

The Timeline​

According to the Ancient One, our universe is one of an infinite number, and there are worlds without end. Further statements affirm that Dormammu is plotting to conquer all of the infinite realities and dimensions within the Multiverse and absorb them into the Dark Dimension. WoG statements have confirmed that the "infinite dimensions" the Ancient One was referring to are all nested within each individual reality.

In addition, we have multiple statements that refer to a timeline as a multiverse in its own right.

Substantially, we can conclude that a timeline is a 2-A structure.

The Sacred Timeline​

Now, we begin with the actual changes.

What I propose is that the Sacred Timeline should be classified as a Low 1-C (5D) structure.

This is because the Sacred Timeline is not a singular timeline, but rather a bundle, a collection of overlapping timelines held together. In an interview, Loki head writer Michael Waldron explained that the Sacred Timeline is not a straight line but instead looks like "intertwined strands of a rope" when viewed up close, with countless nearly-identical "instances of time" coexisting. He describes "infinite instances of time always occurring at once," where any given moment actually has many virtually identical counterparts. He even refers to these as "different universes... different timelines" that are practically the same, since they all follow the same baseline.

The TVA uses a barometer, essentially a scale, to determine what constitutes a meaningful deviation that could result in the birth of a Kang variant. Small fluctuations occur constantly, but they are allowed to exist as long as they don’t exceed the threshold of significant deviation.

This is further supported by Avengers: Endgame, where Bruce Banner explains that changing the past creates a new branch but does not directly affect the original timeline. Since Judge Ravonna Renslayer confirms that the Avengers were "supposed" to time travel, it means their actions caused only minor deviations, ones that did not result in the emergence of a Kang variant, and therefore were not pruned, with the exception of the timeline where Loki escaped.

The Time Heist, therefore, created multiple alternate timelines that coexist within the Sacred Timeline, as they do not deviate too far from the baseline.

Additional support comes from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 7, where the characters are shown to be living in a branched timeline. This branching occurred before the death of He Who Remains, which would not have been possible if only a single timeline were allowed to exist.

Finally, this is further confirmed by Mr. Paradox, who says that "the true universe exists on the Sacred Timeline", not that the Sacred Timeline is the true universe. This wording further supports the idea that the Sacred Timeline is composed of multiple universes or timelines.

In addition, the Watcher clearly states, 'Time, space, reality... it’s more than a linear path. It’s a prism of endless possibilities, where a single choice can branch out into infinite realities."

The fluctuations and branches are depicted as separate from the Sacred Timeline in the MCU Official Timeline Book, much like the TVA.

E1-F87-ABC-0-C05-4-A4-A-AD60-D62-B97503-F48.jpg


Imagine the Sacred Timeline as a copper cable, made of many intertwined strands:
bunch-strand.jpg


This is also supported visually many times:
WNZRAc5g.jpg

f6793d933f0da1eb679826321b4463e02e88807b.jpg

c54a19d92c87815b1fc91bc8c37b56f52d8cfa7c.jpg

21de33acc2a008afec3711847b004c46e41a7cd8.jpg


Given that:
  1. There are infinite instances of time occurring simultaneously,
  2. Small fluctuations at every moment can be treated as distinct universes/timelines,
  3. These fluctuations are allowed to exist as long as they remain within the TVA's threshold,
  4. The Sacred Timeline is described as "intertwined strands of a rope,"
  5. And these parallel timelines can themselves branch further,

We can conclude that the Sacred Timeline contains an uncountably infinite number of closely related timelines branching continuously. For simplicity, we can refer to a structure like the Sacred Timeline as a macro-timeline.

Therefore, the Sacred Timeline should be considered a Low 1-C (5D) structure.

The Multiverse

Next, we know that after the death of He Who Remains, the Sacred Timeline was freed and began branching out indefinitely at every point in time. Multiple statements affirm that there are endless possibilities, where a single choice can branch into infinite realities, that every passing moment is a chance for a new branching, and that one singular moment leads to a multiverse of infinite possibilities. It has also been stated that when Sylvie killed He Who Remains, it "allowed universes to diverge from the Sacred Timeline."

WoG statements compare the Sacred Timeline to a tree. What He Who Remains did was take this tree and isolate it from the others, as if it were an island hidden from everyone else. When the Sacred Timeline began branching freely, its branches began connecting to other, larger timeline branches, i.e., other trees. It is also stated that a branch that grows long enough may intersect with another major timeline/tree. These larger timelines are described as being like our own, so we can reasonably assume they are similar in structure to the Sacred Timeline and likewise consist of an uncountably infinite number of timelines.

When a branching occurs, it's because a timeline has deviated meaningfully from the baseline that defines its parent macro-timeline. If the deviation is significant enough, it becomes a branch and forms its own macro-timeline, composed of an uncountably infinite number of timelines that continue to branch. If one of these timelines then deviates meaningfully from the baseline of this new macro-timeline, it too forms its own macro-timeline, and so the process continues ad infinitum, with timelines connecting to, intersecting with, and diverging from other macro-timelines.

This means that the Multiverse is composed of an uncountably infinite number of macro-timelines, each containing an uncountably infinite number of timelines.

We can thus conclude that the Multiverse as a whole is a 1-C (6D) structure.

Gap Junction and Quantum Realm​

The Gap Junction is the space between universes where the Book of Vishanti was hidden. It is stated that the Book of Vishanti “is not for any sorcerer to wield or keep as their own [...] it's for everyone and all sorcerers.” According to further WoG statements, "these books [the Darkhold and the Book of Vishanti] were introduced and then they got destroyed. What does that mean for the multiverse?" and that "there is only one well of good in all of the Multiverse [...] and Wanda cut off the links to both of them." The Gap Junction is also stated to be "outside of the multiverse, in the space between worlds."

These statements lead us to the conclusion that there is only one Gap Junction in the entire Multiverse.


The Quantum Realm is a dimension outside the Multiverse, accessible through shrinking beyond a subatomic size or through magic.

Word of God statements refer to the Quantum Realm as “the basement of the Multiverse [...] a connected limbo outside of space and time,” describing it as “a place hidden beneath the Multiverse.”

The Quantum Realm can be used to travel between timelines, as demonstrated in both Avengers: Endgame and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

For the Quantum Realm to enable travel between timelines, it must be accessible from all of them, which implies that it exists outside the Multiverse itself. This is consistent with earlier statements referring to it as “the basement of the Multiverse.”

These statements lead us to the conclusion that there is only one Quantum Realm in the entire Multiverse.

The Nexus of all Realities​

Now, here's the only issue with my model:

Logically speaking, the Watcher must be a 6D being, given that he exists outside the planes of space and time, observes the entire Multiverse across all timelines and realities. However, there is a statement in which he refers to himself as 5D.

The most reasonable explanation is that this is a shorthand, simplification, or simply inconsistent writing. I highly doubt the I Am Groot writer "studied" or kept in mind the cosmological structure established in Loki while writing I am groot, and it's likely that "5D" was just used generically to mean "higher-dimensional," even though it's technically inaccurate.

This statement, in my view, is likely a shorthand and not written with "cosmological precision" in mind, most likely a writer oversight, not an actual contradiction, especially considering the overwhelming amount of evidence that supports and reinforces my model.

Since the Watcher can interact with the totality of the Multiverse, both he and the Observational Plane are 1-C (6D).

The TVA and Void at the End of Time​

There is not much I updated here in my sandbox. I just integrated the accepted changes from this CRT.

Because of the second time axis, we can thus conclude that the TVA, and the Void are 1-C (7D) structures.

My sandbox for the new Cosmology.​

I’ve already started writing a sandbox for the cosmology page, complete with updated and working links, incorporating the changes proposed in this CRT. Even if this CRT isn’t accepted, the updated links and sources will still be valuable for improving the page. However, I’m quite confident that these changes make sense and will be accepted.

As I mentioned in the premise, I’m not an expert, so if you spot any mistakes in the CRT or sandbox, please let me know!





Agree: Naeem0304, darkphantom9805, Qawsedf234, ByArrow, ActuallySpaceMan42, FinePoint
Neutral:
Disagree:
 
Last edited:
Good arguments; I'd like to offer some supporting statements.
E1-F87-ABC-0-C05-4-A4-A-AD60-D62-B97503-F48.jpg

These small fluctuations are shown in the MCU Official Timeline Book as separate from the Sacred Timeline. These distinct lines are similar to the TVAs, which are also removed from the Sacred Timeline, so these are different universes/timelines (supporting your statement).
For your first and fifth one, the What If Intro offers some insight: "Time, space, reality... It's more than a linear path, it's a prism of endless possibility where a single choice can branch out into infinite realities."
5. And these parallel timelines can themselves branch further,
Anyway, I agree
 
Good arguments; I'd like to offer some supporting statements.
E1-F87-ABC-0-C05-4-A4-A-AD60-D62-B97503-F48.jpg

These small fluctuations are shown in the MCU Official Timeline Book as separate from the Sacred Timeline. These distinct lines are similar to the TVAs, which are also removed from the Sacred Timeline, so these are different universes/timelines (supporting your statement).

For your first and fifth one, the What If Intro offers some insight: "Time, space, reality... It's more than a linear path, it's a prism of endless possibility where a single choice can branch out into infinite realities."


Anyway, I agree
Thanks a lot for the supporting evidence, I’ll incorporate it ASAP. 🙏🏼🙏🏼
 
For your information, Between Universes is also means Encompasses the Multiverse/Universes, as Between=Encompasses
I'm not entirely sure, so I didn’t include it, but based on my model, should the Quantum Realm and Gap Junction also scale to Low 1-C?
 
The Quantum Realm has more than enough evidence to scale to Low 1-C, but as for the Gap Junction, I don't know.
@Ptumri9

Anywho, that Gap Junction statement is quite interesting.
 
Im not sure about the Watcher +1D
In What If Season 3E5/6, the Guardians of the Multiverse had previously raided the TVA (they mention having reset charges in case things with south against Infinity Ultron.) Still, they specifically needed a power source to get to the Fifth Dimension because it was a "higher plane of existence". Also, in the finale of Season 2, The Watcher used his powers to send him and Captain Carter to the Void at the End of Time, so he has some level of control over it.

I'd still say the Observational Plane/Fifth Dimension is comparable in dimensionality to the TVA off that alone. Would you still disagree that The Watcher should be -1D?
 
In What If Season 3E5/6, the Guardians of the Multiverse had previously raided the TVA (they mention having reset charges in case things with south against Infinity Ultron.) Still, they specifically needed a power source to get to the Fifth Dimension because it was a "higher plane of existence". Also, in the finale of Season 2, The Watcher used his powers to send him and Captain Carter to the Void at the End of Time, so he has some level of control over it.

I'd still say the Observational Plane/Fifth Dimension is comparable in dimensionality to the TVA off that alone. Would you still disagree that The Watcher should be -1D?
I think something like this deserves a unique CRT because it's pretty controversial and long as well 😭 😭
 
A VFX article of Deadpool & Wolverine also states this:
During this third act, Cassandra attempts to destroy the Time Ripper, a huge machine with complex mechanics and glass, fed by two sources of matter, capable of shredding timelines. Destroying it will ultimately annihilate all timelines in the universe.
 
A VFX article of Deadpool & Wolverine also states this:
Honestly, I’m a bit confused about how to apply this or what exactly they meant. The only interpretation that makes logical sense is that they were referring to a "macro-timeline" (like the Sacred Timeline) structure when they said "universe", otherwise, the statement doesn't really make sense.
 
Honestly, I’m a bit confused about how to apply this or what exactly they meant. The only interpretation that makes logical sense is that they were referring to a "macro-timeline" (like the Sacred Timeline) structure when they said "universe", otherwise, the statement doesn't really make sense.
It's possibly referring to the Multiverse.

Paradox in the film says Cassandra can destroy every timeline but the Void with its power. Under that assumption (and given that Paradox helped create the machine), it could make some sense.
 
It's possibly referring to the Multiverse.

Paradox in the film says Cassandra can destroy every timeline but the Void with its power. Under that assumption (and given that Paradox helped create the machine), it could make some sense.
Maybe, but if that were true then it isn't really a supporting statement, it could just upscale Cassandra.
 
I think the OP is pretty good, but it runs directly into multiple instances where the cosmology seemingly has a larger 5th Dimensional axis that seems beyond the timeline.

Additionally, something to note is that the OPs logic doesn't work to my knowledge with our tiering system. To my understanding they're arguing there's an Aleph-2 number of universes, which requires a High 1-B+ rating.

To explain what I mean, the OP is arguing there's already an Aleph-1 number of universes. An Uncountable Infinite set that contains all logical possibilities of universal combinations. That set can be contained within a higher dimension, but an Aleph-2 number of objects is an Uncountable Infinite set that contain an infinite set of all combinations of Aleph-1 combinations. To hold an Aleph-2 number of universes, you need an Aleph-2 number of dimensional axis.

I'm not entirely sure if an upgrade is currently possible under that logic. DT has rejected similar upgrades before for that reason, as Aleph-2 to Aleph-1 is a massive size increase within the tiering system.

Below is the FAQ section with the relevant portion highlighted
Let's take the smallest infinite cardinal (aleph-0, or ℵ0, the cardinality of countably infinite sets) as an example in this case: A set comprised of a countably infinite number of 0-dimensional points is itself a 0-dimensional space under the usual notions of dimensionality, being thus still infinitely small. Meanwhile, a countably infinite number of planets is High 3-A, a countably infinite number of universes 2-A, and countably infinitely many dimensions High 1-B.

We then move on to the power set of ℵ0, P(ℵ0), which is an uncountably infinite quantity and represents the set of all the ways in which you can arrange the elements of a set whose cardinality is the former, and is also equal to the size of the set of all real numbers. In terms of points, one can say that everything from 1-dimensional space to (countably) infinite-dimensional space falls under it, as all of these spaces have the same number of elements (coordinates, in this case), in spite of each being infinitely larger than the preceding one by the intuitive notions of size that we regularly utilize (Area, Volume, etc.).

On the other hand, an P(ℵ0) number of universes is Low 1-C, and a similar number of spatial dimensions is High 1-B+.

However, the same does not apply to sets of higher cardinalities than this (Such as P(P(ℵ0)), the power set of the power set of aleph-0), as they would be strictly bigger than all of the spaces mentioned above, by all rigorous notions of size, regardless of what their elements are (Points, universes, dimensions, etc). From this point and onwards, all such sets are High 1-B+. Finally, the Universe of Sets corresponds to the Low 1-A tier.
 
I think the OP is pretty good, but it runs directly into multiple instances where the cosmology seemingly has a larger 5th Dimensional axis that seems beyond the timeline.

Additionally, something to note is that the OPs logic doesn't work to my knowledge with our tiering system. To my understanding they're arguing there's an Aleph-2 number of universes, which requires a High 1-B+ rating.

To explain what I mean, the OP is arguing there's already an Aleph-1 number of universes. An Uncountable Infinite set that contains all logical possibilities of universal combinations. That set can be contained within a higher dimension, but an Aleph-2 number of objects is an Uncountable Infinite set that contain an infinite set of all combinations of Aleph-1 combinations. To hold an Aleph-2 number of universes, you need an Aleph-2 number of dimensional axis.

I'm not entirely sure if an upgrade is currently possible under that logic. DT has rejected similar upgrades before for that reason, as Aleph-2 to Aleph-1 is a massive size increase within the tiering system.

Below is the FAQ section with the relevant portion highlighted
Unfortunately, as I've already said, I'm not an expert, especially when it comes to complex mathematics like this. It was already difficult just to work through the math required to get this far.

That said, I don't think I fully understood your first sentence. A set of Aleph-1 4D spaces would make up a 5D structure, right? I assume you were referring to something else, then.

In any case, yes, what I'm trying to say is that there is an uncountably infinite number of macro-timelines, each of which contains an uncountably infinite number of timelines.

My lack of knowledge in this area really limits my ability to respond properly. If you say that such an upgrade is unlikely, I’ll trust your judgment. Still, I’m curious to see what other people and staff members think, if you’re okay with that.


PS: Should I put you as neutral or disagree?
 
Unfortunately, as I've already said, I'm not an expert, especially when it comes to complex mathematics like this. It was already difficult just to work through the math required to get this far.
The best way I can describe it is like this
  • Aleph-0 is an uncountable infinite amount of something in a singular way. It's an uncountable infinite number of hamburgers, of numbers, or physical space. A universe is Low 2-C because it contains an uncountable infinite number of three-dimensional snapshots
  • To contain such a large amount of items, this tends to require a container that has a volume uncountably larger than what is contained. As an example, you can't put an elephant in a Toyota Tundra, but you could put an Elephant in a large cargo container. In the same way, to hold an uncountable infinite number of three dimensional spaces, you'll need a fourth dimensional container
  • The reason the multiverse got upgraded to 5-D, is that each timeline is considered to be 2-A, and there's an infinite number of them. Each timeline is composed of an infinite collection of universes, each universe is a 3-A space multiplied infinitely, and that collection of spaces is then given another infinite exponent. Or in other words, it's an Aleph-1 Set of universal spaces. Aleph-1 is a Cardinal Set. To copy Wikipedia, all of these are Aleph-0 sets
    • The set of natural number
    • The set of all integers
    • The set of all rational number
    • The set of all constructible numbers
    • The set of all algebraic numbers
    • The set of all computable numbers
    • The set of all computable functions
    • The set of all binary strings of finite length
    • The set of all finite subsets of any given countably infinite set
  • Aleph-1 would be a set that contains an infinite combination of all of the above infinite sets.
  • Aleph-2, therefore, is an infinite set of all infinite combinations of an Aleph-1 set. But, importantly, that number is so incredibly large that no dimensional container can hold this amount of universes. A 7-D space cannot hold an Aleph-2 amount of anything. The only thing that can hold an Aleph-2 number of objects is another object of Aleph-2 size, which is High 1-B+
  • For your CRT, you're claiming the following:
    • Universes are Aleph-0 (Low 2-C)
    • A Timeline contains infinite universes (2-A)
    • The Sacred Timeline contains infinite repeating snapshots of an infinite series of infinite universes. An Aleph-1 amount of 3-A spaces or Low 1-C
    • The Multiverse contains even more universes and it should be Aleph-2 -> This is where the logic breaks
There's no upgrade within our tiering system, as an Aleph-2 amount of universes would be a High 1-B+ upgrade for the multiverse. What you have is a Aleph-1 set of universes that can never get to Aleph-2, which is still just Low 1-C.

If you don't get it, that's fine. But basically, the foundation of your argument just doesn't work with our tiering system to my understanding, and it wouldn't give an upgrade.

The reason why Loki gets to 6D as an example, is that it gives the multiverse a second time axis. So instead of 4D+1 like the normal multiverse, it's 4D+2.
PS: Should I put you as neutral or disagree?
Disagree
 
The best way I can describe it is like this
  • Aleph-0 is an uncountable infinite amount of something in a singular way. It's an uncountable infinite number of hamburgers, of numbers, or physical space. A universe is Low 2-C because it contains an uncountable infinite number of three-dimensional snapshots
  • To contain such a large amount of items, this tends to require a container that has a volume uncountably larger than what is contained. As an example, you can't put an elephant in a Toyota Tundra, but you could put an Elephant in a large cargo container. In the same way, to hold an uncountable infinite number of three dimensional spaces, you'll need a fourth dimensional container
  • The reason the multiverse got upgraded to 5-D, is that each timeline is considered to be 2-A, and there's an infinite number of them. Each timeline is composed of an infinite collection of universes, each universe is a 3-A space multiplied infinitely, and that collection of spaces is then given another infinite exponent. Or in other words, it's an Aleph-1 Set of universal spaces. Aleph-1 is a Cardinal Set. To copy Wikipedia, all of these are Aleph-0 sets
    • The set of natural number
    • The set of all integers
    • The set of all rational number
    • The set of all constructible numbers
    • The set of all algebraic numbers
    • The set of all computable numbers
    • The set of all computable functions
    • The set of all binary strings of finite length
    • The set of all finite subsets of any given countably infinite set
  • Aleph-1 would be a set that contains an infinite combination of all of the above infinite sets.
  • Aleph-2, therefore, is an infinite set of all infinite combinations of an Aleph-1 set. But, importantly, that number is so incredibly large that no dimensional container can hold this amount of universes. A 7-D space cannot hold an Aleph-2 amount of anything. The only thing that can hold an Aleph-2 number of objects is another object of Aleph-2 size, which is High 1-B+
  • For your CRT, you're claiming the following:
    • Universes are Aleph-0 (Low 2-C)
    • A Timeline contains infinite universes (2-A)
    • The Sacred Timeline contains infinite repeating snapshots of an infinite series of infinite universes. An Aleph-1 amount of 3-A spaces or Low 1-C
    • The Multiverse contains even more universes and it should be Aleph-2 -> This is where the logic breaks
There's no upgrade within our tiering system, as an Aleph-2 amount of universes would be a High 1-B+ upgrade for the multiverse. What you have is a Aleph-1 set of universes that can never get to Aleph-2, which is still just Low 1-C.

If you don't get it, that's fine. But basically, the foundation of your argument just doesn't work with our tiering system to my understanding, and it wouldn't give an upgrade.

The reason why Loki gets to 6D as an example, is that it gives the multiverse a second time axis. So instead of 4D+1 like the normal multiverse, it's 4D+2.

Disagree

I think I understood what you are saying. Thanks a lot for the clarifications.
 
The best way I can describe it is like this
  • Aleph-0 is an uncountable infinite amount of something in a singular way. It's an uncountable infinite number of hamburgers, of numbers, or physical space. A universe is Low 2-C because it contains an uncountable infinite number of three-dimensional snapshots
  • To contain such a large amount of items, this tends to require a container that has a volume uncountably larger than what is contained. As an example, you can't put an elephant in a Toyota Tundra, but you could put an Elephant in a large cargo container. In the same way, to hold an uncountable infinite number of three dimensional spaces, you'll need a fourth dimensional container
  • The reason the multiverse got upgraded to 5-D, is that each timeline is considered to be 2-A, and there's an infinite number of them. Each timeline is composed of an infinite collection of universes, each universe is a 3-A space multiplied infinitely, and that collection of spaces is then given another infinite exponent. Or in other words, it's an Aleph-1 Set of universal spaces. Aleph-1 is a Cardinal Set. To copy Wikipedia, all of these are Aleph-0 sets
    • The set of natural number
    • The set of all integers
    • The set of all rational number
    • The set of all constructible numbers
    • The set of all algebraic numbers
    • The set of all computable numbers
    • The set of all computable functions
    • The set of all binary strings of finite length
    • The set of all finite subsets of any given countably infinite set
  • Aleph-1 would be a set that contains an infinite combination of all of the above infinite sets.
  • Aleph-2, therefore, is an infinite set of all infinite combinations of an Aleph-1 set. But, importantly, that number is so incredibly large that no dimensional container can hold this amount of universes. A 7-D space cannot hold an Aleph-2 amount of anything. The only thing that can hold an Aleph-2 number of objects is another object of Aleph-2 size, which is High 1-B+
  • For your CRT, you're claiming the following:
    • Universes are Aleph-0 (Low 2-C)
    • A Timeline contains infinite universes (2-A)
    • The Sacred Timeline contains infinite repeating snapshots of an infinite series of infinite universes. An Aleph-1 amount of 3-A spaces or Low 1-C
    • The Multiverse contains even more universes and it should be Aleph-2 -> This is where the logic breaks
There's no upgrade within our tiering system, as an Aleph-2 amount of universes would be a High 1-B+ upgrade for the multiverse. What you have is a Aleph-1 set of universes that can never get to Aleph-2, which is still just Low 1-C.

If you don't get it, that's fine. But basically, the foundation of your argument just doesn't work with our tiering system to my understanding, and it wouldn't give an upgrade.

The reason why Loki gets to 6D as an example, is that it gives the multiverse a second time axis. So instead of 4D+1 like the normal multiverse, it's 4D+2.

Disagree
I mean under the logic of the OP it would be H1-B+ (so OP’s evidence would be sufficient for a higher tier), by “it wouldn’t give an upgrade” are you just saying this is contradicted?
 
I mean under the logic of the OP it would be H1-B+
If it is Aleph-2, then it would be High 1-B+ for the reasons listed. But I don't believe it is Aleph-2, as there's no evidence for an infinite set of Aleph-1 sets in my view which is why I mentioned the logic break part.
by “it wouldn’t give an upgrade” are you just saying this is contradicted?
I'm saying that it's not enough Aleph-2 in the first place, just a different form of Aleph-1 as shown in this gif. You can go higher into Alpha-1 without needing a higher-dimensional space by virtue of the set being able to be contained in a larger but non-infinite Alpha-1 set. It's like how having four 2-A spaces is still just 2-A, because there's not enough universes for you to get into an Aleph-1 set of universes. In the same vein there's not enough evidence to say the MCU has an Aleph-2 number of universes in my mind.
 
If it is Aleph-2, then it would be High 1-B+ for the reasons listed. But I don't believe it is Aleph-2, as there's no evidence for an infinite set of Aleph-1 sets in my view which is why I mentioned the logic break part.

I'm saying that it's not enough Aleph-2 in the first place, just a different form of Aleph-1 as shown in this gif. You can go higher into Alpha-1 without needing a higher-dimensional space by virtue of the set being able to be contained in a larger but non-infinite Alpha-1 set. It's like how having four 2-A spaces is still just 2-A, because there's not enough universes for you to get into an Aleph-1 set of universes. In the same vein there's not enough evidence to say the MCU has an Aleph-2 number of universes in my mind.
So just to confirm, does this mean the core idea is still valid? That the Sacred Timeline isn't actually a single timeline? From what I understood the issue is with how I suggested the Multiverse works.
 
If it is Aleph-2, then it would be High 1-B+ for the reasons listed. But I don't believe it is Aleph-2, as there's no evidence for an infinite set of Aleph-1 sets in my view which is why I mentioned the logic break part.

I'm saying that it's not enough Aleph-2 in the first place, just a different form of Aleph-1 as shown in this gif. You can go higher into Alpha-1 without needing a higher-dimensional space by virtue of the set being able to be contained in a larger but non-infinite Alpha-1 set. It's like how having four 2-A spaces is still just 2-A, because there's not enough universes for you to get into an Aleph-1 set of universes. In the same vein there's not enough evidence to say the MCU has an Aleph-2 number of universes in my mind.
I’m aware of this, but it wouldn’t seem like there would be a higher-tier of evidence required for the multiplication of aleph_1 to aleph_2 than aleph_0 to aleph_1, as it’s already accepted that the Sacred Timeline represents the latter case, and it seems like there is a symmetrical relationship of the Sacred Timeline mapped to the greater Multiverse as there are timelines mapped to the Sacred Timeline. If that evidence would be considered valid separate from the tiering implications, such that if the Sacred Timeline was just a genuine aleph_0 structure and the greater Multiverse represented its power set based on the current evidence, there doesn’t seem to be a contradiction.
 
So just to confirm, does this mean the core idea is still valid? That the Sacred Timeline isn't actually a single timeline? From what I understood the issue is with how I suggested the Multiverse works.
Oh yeah, I think that's very valid. In my mind a timeline is Low 1-C, you just aren't getting a 1-C upgrade from it. By the same notion, I think the Gap Junction and Quantum Realm stuff is fine.
but it wouldn’t seem like there would be a higher-tier of evidence required for the multiplication of aleph_1 to aleph_2 than aleph_0 to aleph_1
There is a higher level of evidence. Aleph-1 requires evidence that you have an uncountable infinite combination of Aleph-0 spaces. Aleph-2 requires an uncountable infinite number of uncountable infinite combinations. The OP doesn't have evidence for that in my mind.
 
Oh yeah, I think that's very valid. In my mind a timeline is Low 1-C, you just aren't getting a 1-C upgrade from it. By the same notion, I think the Gap Junction and Quantum Realm stuff is fine.

There is a higher level of evidence. Aleph-1 requires evidence that you have an uncountable infinite combination of Aleph-0 spaces. Aleph-2 requires an uncountable infinite number of uncountable infinite combinations. The OP doesn't have evidence for that in my mind.
So, if I restructure the CRT to say that the Multiverse and the above aren't 1-C but Low 1-C, it works?
 
There is a higher level of evidence. Aleph-1 requires evidence that you have an uncountable infinite combination of Aleph-0 spaces. Aleph-2 requires an uncountable infinite number of uncountable infinite combinations. The OP doesn't have evidence for that in my mind.
No, what I meant was that if the standard for evidence for the first powerset was met, then having the same relationship for that powerset with a bigger structure seems that it would be the same type of arithmetic gap as the first one was. If the relationship between the regular timeline and the macro-timeline is the same as the macro-timeline and the greater multiverse, then there wouldn’t be a contradiction.
 
No, what I meant was that if the standard for evidence for the first powerset was met, then having the same relationship for that powerset with a bigger structure seems that it would be the same type of arithmetic gap as the first one was.
The issue is that it's a similar conceptual gap, but not the same arithmetic gap. There are more numerical sets and ideas between Aleph-2 and Aleph-1 than there are between Aleph-1 and a finite number.
 
The issue is that it's a similar conceptual gap, but not the same arithmetic gap. There are more numerical sets and ideas between Aleph-2 and Aleph-1 than there are between Aleph-1 and a finite number.
I didn’t mean numerical gap, but just an extended arithmetic operation of the same type. So 2^2^aleph_0 instead of just 2^aleph_0 simply because the relationship between a regular timeline and the macro-timeline (2^aleph_0) is extended again between the latter and the greater multiverse.

If you don’t understand, I mean that if the standard of evidence for the sacred timeline and the greater multiverse would be accepted for Low 1-C if the sacred timeline was aleph_0, then if the sacred timeline is already accepted as aleph_1 universes it would be accepted as aleph_2. That’s what I meant in the same standard of evidence.
 
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