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Nothing quite that impressive on screen. It looks like feats and statements from the movie are being compiled in this respect thread.
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MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Valiant_Abyss
- Start date
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My brain went crazy after finishing Agatha because there is a clear plot hole. Agatha gathered the coven so they could all blast her and she could steal their powers..but Sharon doesn’t have powers, Teen didn’t have powers, Jennifer had no access to her powers and Alice didn’t as well. The only one left to possibly do something is Lilia, and I doubt she’d be stupid enough to do that. And even if she was, what? Agatha would just absorb her powers, kill her and throw a party with everyone else?
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Valiant_Abyss
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I'm surprised they didn't cover how Agatha got the darkhold, or her magic absorbing abilities, or whatever the hell happened in her intro we got from WandaVision where she kills her own coven.
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death should scaling to eternity or not (low2-c)
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Meh I think she should scale to Agatha as for now
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6-A for scale to Agatha and she claimed she is the nature oder of all things so it mean she should scale to eternity as well
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I mean yes there are plenty of statements but as for feats..she’s kinda lacking
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Yeah, but based on concept art Guardians of the Galaxy, it is stated that she is one of 4 balances of the universe and that she can control reality and space-time So I think we should use this scale her to eternity
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Sure, I guess it could be used.
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If the tier is too controversial, we can just put her to "At least something (maybe Agatha's full potential after absorbing all of Wanda's Magic), likely/up to far higher/Low 2-C" with the balance and being equal to Eternity point
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That’s what I had in mind, I guess someone has to make a profile now
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If we were to change Agatha to low 2-c, that wouldn't make much sense. I think we should rate her likely far higher since she can only fight death for a short distance
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However, we should give wanda low2-c with reality warping since she warp a creature that not even Death can affect unless he surrenders his soul to Death, so it should be low2-c I think it should be like this if death is low2-c
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Given it was a scam, she didnt care if Sharon didnt have powers and just needed a filler as the Green Witch, so she didnt have to recruit Rio whose name was alluded in the original list.
Teen did have powers, but he wasn't made apart of the coven. To her, he wasnt a threat and came across as someone willing to follow her, like a familiar, even after the fact. Or just deal with him afterwards if he got pushy about it
Jennifer was only bound, meaning she still had a limited version of her magic, which is how she could perform spells and incantations while on the road, and why shes still living to this day. Agatha was desperate and back at square one so she was gonna take what she could get, even if its a little amount.
Alice had access to her powers.
Teen did have powers, but he wasn't made apart of the coven. To her, he wasnt a threat and came across as someone willing to follow her, like a familiar, even after the fact. Or just deal with him afterwards if he got pushy about it
Jennifer was only bound, meaning she still had a limited version of her magic, which is how she could perform spells and incantations while on the road, and why shes still living to this day. Agatha was desperate and back at square one so she was gonna take what she could get, even if its a little amount.
Alice had access to her powers.
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Right but that still keeps the question of what she would have done with Sharon.
Well yes he did have powers limited to the use of incantations, but did she think she could kill everyone in the coven and he’d be fine with it?
Jennifer didn’t have access to her pure magic that lets her blast people though. And that’s a requirement for Agatha’s absorption.
I honestly forgot Alice had her powers
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Well good thing I already have a blog for herThat’s what I had in mind, I guess someone has to make a profile now
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Didnt need to do anything with Sharon lol. She isnt a threat. She was just there to fill the Green Witch for the scam, its not that srs to be called a plot hole
Dont think she cared either way. He came across as a super fan of hers so he would likely have known her infamy. If not, she could have just lied to him too and gather another coven.
They already said that when the coven is gathered, their magic gets amplified and Agatha was hoping for that spark they create to give her the power they need. This likely wouldnt exclude Jennifer who still qualifies as a witch within the coven.
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Regardless tho i dont think we should be scaling Agatha or Wiccan to Death directly.
They did seemingly affect her tangible body, but it wasnt anything serious and its likely just an avatar form since shes a conceptual existence. They even admit that they cant beat Death.
As a conceptual being too, its likely shes bound by rules and thats why she cant directly affect Wiccan and his reincarnation bs. Death doesnt have complete free will clearly, which is what stirred the conflict between her and Agatha abt Nicholas. I wouldnt say shes 'unable' to directly affect Wiccan, but instead cannot do so as per the natural order.
Death has 'enough' to compare her to Eternity ig, but as Rio Vidal, she doesnt seem to display a comparable power anyway.
Agatha by her ability has the capacity to absorb the Chaos magic of the Scarlet Witch and Wiccan, which could briefly contend with Death, but Death was literally being flirtatiously playful and taking her time with Agatha instead of trying to outright kill her. So its unfair to assume Agatha can keep with that.
They did seemingly affect her tangible body, but it wasnt anything serious and its likely just an avatar form since shes a conceptual existence. They even admit that they cant beat Death.
As a conceptual being too, its likely shes bound by rules and thats why she cant directly affect Wiccan and his reincarnation bs. Death doesnt have complete free will clearly, which is what stirred the conflict between her and Agatha abt Nicholas. I wouldnt say shes 'unable' to directly affect Wiccan, but instead cannot do so as per the natural order.
Death has 'enough' to compare her to Eternity ig, but as Rio Vidal, she doesnt seem to display a comparable power anyway.
Agatha by her ability has the capacity to absorb the Chaos magic of the Scarlet Witch and Wiccan, which could briefly contend with Death, but Death was literally being flirtatiously playful and taking her time with Agatha instead of trying to outright kill her. So its unfair to assume Agatha can keep with that.
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Agreed. It's pretty clearly a Puss in Boots 2 situation. Agatha herself says it's impossible for them to win against Death
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Well for Death, I can think of something like "At least 6-A, likely far higher/up to Low 2-C"
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Something interesting is the watcher had a statue in L&T along with all the other abstracts I wonder if that implies they are all the similar tiers
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I just think they put random Cosmic Entities lmao
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Because they should all be similar tiers or no
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I dont think that's a necessity by all means
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Why ?
ThePrimalHunter
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That's not really proof of anything. You'll need more evidence then just statues to prove that. A statement by a character or in an artbook might support it, but assumming they're all equal power because they all have statues really isn't the best evidence ever. You'll need more than that to prove that they're all simular in power
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To give you an idea, it's like the champions statues on Sakaar on the Grandmaster's fortress. All of them were champions at one point but that doesn't mean they're on the same level of power
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Not exactly how it works as those people aren’t abstracts and they didn’t get statues by becoming raining champions of a battle tournament they got statues because they are abstract level cosmic beings
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Does anything state that they are ginormous tier differences apart does watcher have a statement that puts him above the living tribunal etc?
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The point is not what the beings are in-universe. The point is those beings held similar titles but are not necessarily on the same level. If you want another comparison, think of how the Olympian Gods all have their own statues but Zeus is always at the top of the power ladder including in real life. The idea is just to build statues to honor higher beings, not a statement about them being as powerful as each other
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While theyre all likely of high cosmic power, theyre mainly just references and it isnt enough to definitively say theyre comparable, just that theyre all of high status
TOAA is one of them, who should be center stage if thats the case.
Given Death is still Eternity's coutnerpart and they have alluded to it before in the MCU though, its better to be a likely/possibly
TOAA is one of them, who should be center stage if thats the case.
Given Death is still Eternity's coutnerpart and they have alluded to it before in the MCU though, its better to be a likely/possibly
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That TOAA is not Marvel's supreme big-G God though but the Celestial of the same name I believe
Wait, are you saying Death should get a "possibly Watcher" tier?
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Given context clues in GotG and Thor Love and Thunder, then yeah death is still a prominent cosmic being on the same standing as those other statues, and Agatha All Along doesnt debunk that necessarily when Rio Vidal is just an avatar pretty much
However, given Death is going an extremely different direction compared to the comics thus far, with even the creator confirming theres no planned Thanos or Deadpool connections to Aubrey Plaza death, then its also safe to lowball her to the standard High 6-A.
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It's even dumber because Agatha is the one who bound Jennifer's magic, albeit, she didn't remember it.
Also, how did Billy make The Road? Other than Mind Reading, he didn't demonstrate much actual magic use as William. It was his subconscious doing the work. But the point of The Road is to unlock power at the end. So how did his brain have access to the power to make The Road if it wasn't supposed to have access to that power until it finished The Road it is to make?
Also, I recall a statement about Agatha saying she can make Illusions, Control Objects, Minds, etc. Something like that.
Since it was her 1750s self, neat to know she had those powers even back then.
To me, the more interesting profile is William's, since he's got all the hax that The Road has like flipping the gravity, & later the tower, the ground swallowing them, all of the hazards they faced....
Hey, was there a sunset in the backdrop for the first trial?
I think he gave Power Bestowal, multiple forms of Earth Manipulation. Also, didn't an oven catch fire in the 1st trial or something?
There was also the invisible monster in Alice's trial.
Anyone doing a Sandbox for him?
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Here's an interesting tidbit; according to the book Marvel Studios 100 Objects: Iconic Artifacts from the MCU, Odin's fight against Laufey was one of Odin's fiercest battles:
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Might be because Hela and her army, probably the Valkyries as well, were no longer with Odin by that time therefore severely diminishing the Asgardian Army.
This might also put more stock into Laufey downscaling from Odin, at least with Ice Manipulation, since in Thor 1 there's a scene where we see Laufey launching an Ice Attack at Odin on Earth. Then later on in Jotunheim, Odin is shown to have lost an eye, and his helmet is damaged in the spot Laufey struck.
This might also put more stock into Laufey downscaling from Odin, at least with Ice Manipulation, since in Thor 1 there's a scene where we see Laufey launching an Ice Attack at Odin on Earth. Then later on in Jotunheim, Odin is shown to have lost an eye, and his helmet is damaged in the spot Laufey struck.
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I mean... didnt Odin lost his eye because of LaufeyHere's an interesting tidbit; according to the book Marvel Studios 100 Objects: Iconic Artifacts from the MCU, Odin's fight against Laufey was one of Odin's fiercest battles:
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It's hinted at, though we're not outright shown the moment and he might have lost if in other circumstances during the battle. Seems more likely Laufey was the one to wound him.
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The whole "the Road leads to power" thing is just a scam. There was no power. Agatha made up the thing after rumors spred about it without even wanting it and went along with it so she could steal other witches's powers. Billy making the Road is like Wanda creating the Hex, it's an uncounscious effect of his Chaos Magic
Yeah, someone made up a blog for him already
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