Mcu Odin tier 4 upgrade

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Well this comic seems to have a lot going for it in terms of canonicity, shoul I just add it to the OP?

Yes

 

[Yokoahh5743]

If Odin has been upgraded Will other characters be upgraded as well? Or will this upgrade only him alone?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Well this comic seems to have a lot going for it in terms of canonicity, shoul I just add it to the OP?

It is, at the absolute least, tertiary canon, yeah. So, according to our rules:

Entirely new feats of tertiary canon, like for example new abilities, should be disregarded. Details added to existing fight scenes, such as damage caused to the surroundings, can be accepted for text based media like books.

Odin's feat is similar if not straight up the same as what he did in Dark World, so we pass this threshold.

Any changes based on tertiary canon will only be accepted if they are not contradicted by any instances of another canon, with regards to either the character power-scale, or logical inconsistencies (and plot holes).

Nothing in this comic contradicts the films. Instead, it expands and enhances the characters (particularly Loki, interestingly enough, from what I've read) and their lore (the comic introduces some Asgardian contests and celebrations).

If I can find that these events are referenced in some form of MCU media, it would bump it straight to secondary canon.

 

[darkphantom9805]

If Odin has been upgraded Will other characters be upgraded as well? Or will this upgrade only him alone?

As far as we know nobody would scale to Odin

 

[ByArrow]

As far as we know nobody would scale to Odin

I think Zeus can scale

 

[darkphantom9805]

I think Zeus can scale

0 evidence of that

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I think Zeus can scale

This can be discussed later

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Also I added the stuff

 

[Qawsedf234]

Iirc the chalice source is a Burger King tie-in comic, which was one of the more major hangups for usability.

As for tiering there's no indication that Odin has a UES going on, so if it is accepted it would only be a creation feat. Scaling people to 4-B (which is quadrillions of times higher than literally every other rating), seems questionable as well of this is being pushed for a full on AP upgrade.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Iirc the chalice source is a Burger King tie-in comic, which was one of the more major hangups for usability.

As for tiering there's no indication that Odin has a UES going on, so if it is accepted it would only be a creation feat. Scaling people to 4-B (which is quadrillions of times higher than literally every other rating), seems questionable as well of this is being pushed for a full on AP upgrade.

All his power comes from the odinforce, I see no reason why this wouldn’t fall under AP

 

[Qawsedf234]

All his power comes from the odinforce, I see no reason why this wouldn’t fall under AP

You have to prove the Odinforce is UES. Just being powered by it means nothing.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Iirc the chalice source is a Burger King tie-in comic, which was one of the more major hangups for usability.

Lephyr already adressed this

I am currently researching this

The writer that got commissioned to write the comic was tasked to being accurate to the movie, at the very least

Source

So it might be reasonable to take this as a form of tertiary canon. Will continue researching in a bit to see if the events from the comic were referenced somewhere else or even acknowledged in some form of MCU media.

Looking up the comic,
Found this

Editor Bill Rosemann (worked on many of the canon MCU comics)
But most importantly, Chief Creative Joe Quesada

This is frankly looking very promising. As far as I know, the comic also doesn't contradict anything from the movies, rather expands the Asgardian lore.

The comic predates the MCU tie-in stamp straight up

It instead simply features the "marvel limited series" and "marvel studios" thingy as seen here

But indeed, we have very prominent figures from the MCU that worked on it (Quesada specially) and the editor is the one in charge of the official tie-ins. We also have comments from the writer citing the fact he was tasked to be accurate to the characters from the movie.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

You have to prove the Odinforce is UES. Just being powered by it means nothing.

A what? It kinda dose by the description in creation feats

Note that this only applies to the character's capacity to harm other characters if their Creation is connected to their other abilities; for example, it can be reasoned that a mage who can conjure a city with little mana can destroy one with the same amount of mana, however a character who can create objects without other ways of harming their opponents wouldn't be able to harness that power to hurt another character, and would fall under a light form of Environmental Destruction

That’s basically what’s happening

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

A what?

Universal Energy System

Universal Energy Systems

Universal Energy Systems are a fairly common element in fictional stories possessed by certain characters to display incredible feats and powers, often being born out of fantastical or otherwise otherworldly elements such as Magic, Chakra, Chi and a myriad of other possible energy systems. Often...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Universal Energy System

Universal Energy Systems

Universal Energy Systems are a fairly common element in fictional stories possessed by certain characters to display incredible feats and powers, often being born out of fantastical or otherwise otherworldly elements such as Magic, Chakra, Chi and a myriad of other possible energy systems. Often...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Oh well from the sounds of it, Odin draws all his power from the OF

Like other Asgardians, Odin is a proven warrior, and has survived and won many wars against the enemies of Asgard. As the King of Asgard, Odin draws his power from that incredible place where his attributes are far superior to those possessed by the other members of his race.

Source

 

[Qawsedf234]

A what? It kinda dose by the description in creation feats

Creation feat still require a indication that Odin can put more energy into attacks than he can for creation. Which still requires you to prove a system of UES.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Creation feat still require an indication that Odin can put more energy into attacks than he can for creation. Which still requires you to prove a system of UES.

It’s stated he draws all his power from the OF sooo…

Like other Asgardians, Odin is a proven warrior, and has survived and won many wars against the enemies of Asgard. As the King of Asgard, Odin draws his power from that incredible place where his attributes are far superior to those possessed by the other members of his race.

Source

 

[Qawsedf234]

It’s stated he draws all his power from the OF sooo…

Creation feat still require a indication that Odin can put more energy into attacks than he can for creation. Which still requires you to prove a system of UES

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

for example, it can be reasoned that a mage who can conjure a city with little mana can destroy one with the same amount of mana,

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Iirc the chalice source is a Burger King tie-in comic, which was one of the more major hangups for usability.

Based on the evidence I compiled, I believe it's reasonable to consider this a firm tertiary canon. And since the feat doesn't contradict what we see Odin do on-screen (he literally did the same feat, all things considered), I believe with these two pieces of evidence, the scale be considered as legitimate.

As for tiering there's no indication that Odin has a UES going on, so if it is accepted it would only be a creation feat. Scaling people to 4-B (which is quadrillions of times higher than literally every other rating), seems questionable as well of this is being pushed for a full on AP upgrade.

I agree we don't have enough for a full UES scale, thus I find it fine if we only scale this to creation AP if accepted.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Maybe not UES but it should NPES at bare minimum

 

[Qawsedf234]

agree we don't have enough for a full UES scale, thus I find it fine if we only scale this to creation AP if accepted.

Sure that's fine.

for example, it can be reasoned that a mage who can conjure a city with little mana can destroy one with the same amount of mana,

Now all you have to do is prove how much energy Odin used for the creation feat and how much he used for his attacks.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Now all you have to do is prove how much energy Odin used for the creation feat and how much he used for his attacks.

If the power comes from the same place then not really

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

If the power comes from the same place then not really

You do, actually.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

You do, actually.

It’s described other wise

 

[Qawsedf234]

If the power comes from the same place then not really

You do, because you still have to show that Odin can use a greater amount of energy in an attack than he does for creation for that scaling to work.

There's nothing to draw from however, so we can't say how much effort he puts into anything. So a straight 4-B upgrade is unsupported. But 4-B creation is fine and is in-line with other God's having Tier 4 Spatial feats.

It’s described other wise

It's not. You still have to give evidence for it to work out. Just being powered by an energy source isn't enough.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

You do, because you still have to show that Odin can use a greater amount of energy in an attack than he does for creation for that scaling to work.

And where is this stated?

There's nothing to draw from however, so we can't say how much effort he puts into anything. So a straight 4-B upgrade is unsupported. But 4-B creation is fine and is in-line with other God's having Tier 4 Spatial feats.

It’s stated he gets all his power from the same source so I don’t see a problem

It's not. You still have to give evidence for it to work out. Just being powered by an energy source isn't enough.

Not really, I’m looking through the creation stuff and it just says that if there abiltes come from the same source then it can be assumed that they can output that level of power

In order to apply to a character's capacity to harm other characters, that is their usual Attack Potency, their Creation has to be connected to their other abilities. Often that is due to a common power system, in which the same energy used for creation is used for attacks. For example, it can be reasoned that a mage which expends mana from its energy pool to make a city and then channels a similar or greater amount of mana into another attack can scale to its creation feat.

 

[KLOL506]

It’s described other wise

It's not. You need to prove that the amount of energy used for physical attacks and the hax in question is the same or that the attacks consume more energy on average than magical attacks, and MCU Odinforce hasn't exactly shown either to be overtly superior to the other, it's one of the cornerstone requirements for even Limited Energy System (The requirement carries on into NPES and UES).

At the very least, I see this being a NPES from the evidence I see.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

It's not. You need to prove that the amount of energy used for physical attacks and the hax in question is the same or that the attacks consume more energy on average than magical attacks, and MCU Odinforce hasn't exactly shown either to be overtly superior to the other, it's one of the cornerstone requirements for even Limited Energy System (The requirement carries on into NPES and UES).

At the very least, I see this being a NPES from the evidence I see.

Eh I’m more sliding towards NPES tbh. From how it’s described it showed work for all his abilities

Like other Asgardians, Odin is a proven warrior, and has survived and won many wars against the enemies of Asgard. As the King of Asgard, Odin draws his power from that incredible place where his attributes are far superior to those possessed by the other members of his race.

The Odinforce allows Odin to manipulate magical energy, such as stripping Thor of his godlike powers, enchanting mythical artifacts like the hammer Mjolnir, reading minds across dimensions, and transporting individuals without the Bifrost.

https://www.marvel.com/characters/odin/on-screen

 

[Qawsedf234]

And where is this stated?

In your own post. You have to prove equalivent or lower energy usage for a Creation feat to scale. Same with putting energy into abilities in a 1:1 ratio for UES.

Not really, I’m looking through the creation stuff

Look closer

For example, it can be reasoned that a mage which expends mana from its energy pool to make a city and then channels a similar or greater amount of mana into another attack can scale to its creation feat.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

In the meantime

@DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @Firestorm808 @LordGriffin1000

What y'all think?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

In your own post. You have to prove equalivent or lower energy usage for a Creation feat to scale. Same with putting energy into abilities in a 1:1 ratio for UES.

Eh think NPES is better tbh

Look closer

Fair enough, I miss read that. But considering how casual the feat is preformed can it not be reasoned that his attacks would scale

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I'm fine with just limiting it to "4-B with Creation". Odin's two creation feats are either off-screen or a simple Gungnir tap, and we hardly see Odin fighting besides brief shots of stabbing and blasting Frost Giants, blasting a Dark Elf or banishing Thor (this one is more of hax), so there's not much going for scaling the creation feats to Odin's normal AP

Best possibility is What If...? Season 2, but that'll involve even more scrutiny given how we treat Variant scaling on the wiki and 4-B Wenwu sounds ridiculous

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm fine with just limiting it to "4-B with Creation". Odin's two creation feats are either off-screen or a simple Gungnir tap, and we hardly see Odin fighting besides brief shots of stabbing and blasting Frost Giants, blasting a Dark Elf or banishing Thor (this one is more of hax), so there's not much going for scaling the creation feats to Odin's normal AP

Best possibility is What If...? Season 2, but that'll involve even more scrutiny given how we treat Variant scaling on the wiki and 4-B Wenwu sounds ridiculous

This makes sense to me as well.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Yeah, I agree with the upgrade but disagree with it scaling to Odin's physicals, as the Odinforce still needs to be accepted as UES

I wonder if it has enough feats for that

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Yeah, I agree with the upgrade but disagree with it scaling to Odin's physicals, as the Odinforce still needs to be accepted as UES

I’m going for NPES now since there’s not enough evidence for UES

I wonder if it has enough feats for that

Probably not

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I’m going for NPES now since there’s not enough evidence for UES

Yeah, NPES sounds better

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I'm fine with just limiting it to "4-B with Creation". Odin's two creation feats are either off-screen or a simple Gungnir tap, and we hardly see Odin fighting besides brief shots of stabbing and blasting Frost Giants, blasting a Dark Elf or banishing Thor (this one is more of hax), so there's not much going for scaling the creation feats to Odin's normal AP

I would think it could atleast be NPES since his power comes from one source and the feat itself was pretty casual

Best possibility is What If...? Season 2, but that'll involve even more scrutiny given how we treat Variant scaling on the wiki and 4-B Wenwu sounds ridiculous

I doubt it’ll give him anything good but we’ll see

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

With Qawsedf, DDM and mine agreement, "4-B with Creation" is accepted

Once the 48 hrs are done, this can be applied.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Well since it’s already decided can someone apply the changes and close the thread