[MCU] Infinity Stones Addition

[RoTt35]

The Infinity Stones have the following statements:

Before creation itself, six Singularities existed. When the universe exploded into existence, the Singularities' remnants were forged into concentrated ingots capable of manipulating the fundamental aspects of the new reality.

At the dawn of the universe, there was nothing. Then... boom. The Big Bang sent six elemental crystals hurtling across the virgin universe. These Infinity Stones each control an essential aspect of existence: space, reality, power, soul, mind, and time.

The Infinity Stones are the condensed remains of six Singularities that existed long before the current universe. Every stone holds a power so vast that it lies beyond mortal comprehension. Each controls a primordial aspect of the universe: space, reality, time, power, mind, and soul.

That would grant them Conceptual Manipulation, specifically Type 2 based on the above and this:

• The Infinity Stones are the remnants of the Singularities, who predate the universe.
• They can work in other universes, timelines, and even outside the planes of space and time, as showed with Infinity Ultron.
• They can still work even if their whole timeline is destroyed, as showed with Doctor Strange Supreme.
• Ancient One stated that removing an Infinity Stone from their own reality would doom it. WoG stated that the Infinity Stones of the main universe still exist at the atomic level:
  • Q: Ancient One says stones are essential to flow of time. How come Thanos is able to destroy them?
  • A: Thanos only reduced the stones to the atomic level. The stones are still present in the universe.

Note: because the existence of Arishem and the Celestials predates the six Singularities, it cannot be anything higher than type 2.

Agree: 11 (@Qawsedf234, @Marvel_Champion_07, @LordGriffin1000, @Lonkitt, @Eseseso, @Oliver_de_jesus, @Excel616, @Aseka, @ThanatosX, @NHTkenshin2, @RoTt35)

Disagree: 1 (@Suigetsuhyugs)

Neutral: 1 (@The_Axiom_of_Virgo)

 

[Qawsedf234]

As I said on my message wall, I'm fine with Type 2.

 

[Eseseso]

Type 2 seems fine.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Oh boi, i agree

 

[Excellence616]

I agree

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Didnt Gamora What if destroy her universe infinity stones with the machine? The universe was still "fine".
Aside the destruction of many planets the universe that Ultron came from the same of Natasha, the universe was still "fine" despite the stones being permanently taken from that universe when Watcher and Strange Supreme stuck him and the stones in an infinite loop or whatever.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Didnt Gamora What if destroy her universe infinity stones with the machine? The universe was still "fine".

Wasn't that by using the Soul stone which is a greater danger than the individual gems? I personally feel that it is the equivalent of using the gems to destroy the gems

Aside the destruction of many planets the universe that Ultron came from the same of Natasha, the universe was still "fine" despite the stones being permanently taken from that universe when Watcher and Strange Supreme stuck him and the stones in an infinite loop or whatever.

Is this a counter argument, I'm not saying that because it's wrong, I'm really confused if it's a counter argument because the gems still operate universes away?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Wasn't that by using the Soul stone which is a greater danger than the individual gems? I personally feel that it is the equivalent of using the gems to destroy the gems

Is this a counter argument, I'm not saying that because it's wrong, I'm really confused if it's a counter argument because the gems still operate universes away?

Ancient One stated that removing an Infinity Stone from their own reality would doom it. WoG stated that the Infinity Stones of the main universe still exist at the atomic level:

Im talking specificaly about this part, so it doesnt matter how they were destroyed but the fact they were, the stones working outside of universe doesnt really matter if the universe is dependent of the stones but not the other way around.

 

[RoTt35]

Didnt Gamora What if destroy her universe infinity stones with the machine? The universe was still "fine".

Unless the machine has Existence Erasure, which it doesn't, that doesn't matter, the Infinity Stones of the main timeline are still present in the universe at the atomic level

Aside the destruction of many planets the universe that Ultron came from the same of Natasha, the universe was still "fine" despite the stones being permanently taken from that universe when Watcher and Strange Supreme stuck him and the stones in an infinite loop or whatever.

The Watcher sent Black Widow to another universe, we don't know what happened to Ultron's

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Unless the machine has Existence Erasure, which it doesn't, that doesn't matter, the Infinity Stones of the main timeline are still present in the universe at the atomic level

Not talking about the main timeline im talking about Gamora's universe where she defeated and she got back to.

The Watcher sent Black Widow to another universe, we don't know what happened to Ultron's

It was heavily implied that she could have got back to it, only Black Widow didnt wanted to, which was why she was sent to another universe.

 

[RoTt35]

Not talking about the main timeline im talking about Gamora's universe where she defeated and she got back to.

And I was responding to that, as long as Gamora hasn't erased the Infinity Stones from existence they will still exist even if they are destroyed

It was heavily implied that she could have got back to it, only Black Widow didnt wanted to, which was why she was sent to another universe.

That's not an argument or an antifeat for the stones though, we never saw Ultron's universe again after the fight, so we can't assume it still exists

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

And I was responding to that, as long as Gamora hasn't erased the Infinity Stones from existence they will still exist even if they are destroyed

They were destroyed, its not the same thing as them just being the size of an atom, even that small the stones still work but destroyed they cant work.

That's not an argument or an antifeat for the stones though, we never saw Ultron's universe again after the fight, so we can't assume it still exists

Again it was very heavily implied that it was fine just planets destroyed to begin with that universe was left for a good while when Ultron left with the stones to conquer multiple universes until he was back there and the universe was still fine

 

[RoTt35]

They were destroyed, its not the same thing as them just being the size of an atom, even that small the stones still work but destroyed they cant work.

Again, Thanos also destroyed the stones on an atomic level and they are still present in the universe as stated by WoG, Gamora would have to erase them from existence to make them stop working which she cannot do

Again it was very heavily implied that it was fine just planets destroyed

That's headcannon and for the last time, we never saw Ultron's universe again after the battle and Black Widow was sent to another universe, that argument has no supports

to begin with that universe was left for a good while when Ultron left with the stones to conquer multiple universes until he was back there and the universe was still fine

Ancient One didn't state that the universe will be instantly erased by removing or destroying the stones, it could last a some time, which doesn't invalidate that WoG has stated that the stones are essential to the universe

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Ancient One didn't state that the universe will be instantly erased by removing or destroying the stones

The Ancient One : I'm sorry, I can't help you, Bruce. If I give up the time stone to help your reality, I'm dooming my own.

TBF, this could be about of Dormammu, and Kacelius since the Time Stone would be crucial in their defeat, since the Ancient One already knew to a certain degree (since there were still things that surprised her) what would happen in their timeline up to the point of her death.

The Ancient One : The Infinity stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone and that flow splits.

So the removal of the Stones results in new timelines branching out since different events would have to take place over the ones that took place in the original timeline due to the stones not being present.

No mention of the universe being destroyed unless you count the TVA pruning that new timeline since it did happen to that Ancient One's timeline because of Loki.

Recap, Cap went for the Mind Stone, Tony & Scott the Space Stone, while Hulk went for the Time Stone. The Space Stone still functions despite its timeline being pruned but just not in the TVA, where they're treated as paper weights due to their tech.

Now, this may benefit your reality but my new one, not so much. In this new branched reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world will be over run. Millions will suffer. So, tell me Doctor, can your science prevent all that?

To reiterate, this could be just about of Dormammu, and Kacelius since the Time Stone would be crucial in their defeat, since the Ancient One said "their chief weapon against the forces of darkness" and she already knew to a certain degree (since there were still things that surprised her) what would happen in their timeline up to the point of her death.

 

[RoTt35]

Question, wouldn't the universe still existing if the Infinity Stones are removed be an antifeat for CM Type 1 and not Type 2? Besides, I think that the Infinity Stones can just manipulate concepts, not that they are the concepts itself

 

[Aseka]

Seems fine, agree.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I knew is was only a matter of time until the MCU would get some type of CM (or Info hax) but I didn't know there was already enough lore/evidence to make that argument already.

For the time being I'm neutral leaning on agreeing but it's still a bit iffy when factoring in What if...? and Loki (the MCU seriously needs a lorebook or 2).

 

[Thelastmlg]

i'm a little lost on how this is conceptual manip, probably cuz it is usually either blantant or strict, can someone summarize it?

 

[RoTt35]

i'm a little lost on how this is conceptual manip, probably cuz it is usually either blantant or strict, can someone summarize it?

It is from the first three statements, for example the Mind Stone can manipulate and control the fundamental/essential aspect of mind in the universe

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I agree

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Again, Thanos also destroyed the stones on an atomic level and they are still present in the universe as stated by WoG, Gamora would have to erase them from existence to make them stop working which she cannot do

Thanos stated that he reduced them to atoms not that he destroyed them to atomic level. You created your own head cannon assuming the they need EE, scarlet witch destroyed mind stone Thanos had to bring it back using the time stone.

That's headcannon and for the last time, we never saw Ultron's universe again after the battle and Black Widow was sent to another universe, that argument has no supports

It's less head cannon than assume the universe was destroyed, Black Widow said she didn't wanted to go back, the watcher never said she couldn't, only brought her to another universe because she said she didn't wanted to go back to her own.

Ancient One didn't state that the universe will be instantly erased by removing or destroying the stones, it could last a some time, which doesn't invalidate that WoG has stated that the stones are essential to the universe

Like it was said by someone else it's more likely cuz of Dormammu than the timeline actually being destroyed because the stones are not there.

 

[RoTt35]

I'm not going to continue this back and forth besides being unnecessary, I'm only proposing CM Type 2, not Type 1

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Thanos stated that he reduced them to atoms not that he destroyed them to atomic level.

There, he used the word destroy, are you happy now?

How is this hard to understand? He used the stones to turn them into something similar as their original state, the Six Singularities. Their essence still exists in the universe but they're just no longer in a tangible state.

You created your own head cannon assuming the they need EE, scarlet witch destroyed mind stone Thanos had to bring it back using the time stone.

The physical form of the stone was shattered by Wanda releasing and dispersing the Mind Stone's power.

Of course Thanos would need the Time Stone to bring back the Mind Stone, previously it took the power of the Big Bang to condense all Six Singularities into the Six Infinity Stones.

Is the word "Destroy" in your understanding somehow only mean that there's nothing left and no trace of something at all?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

There, he used the word destroy, are you happy now?

He also said he reduced them to atoms

How is this hard to understand? He used the stones to turn them into something similar as their original state, the Six Singularities. Their essence still exists in the universe but they're just no longer in a tangible state.

Headcannon

The physical form of the stone was shattered by Wanda releasing and dispersing the Mind Stone's power.

Of course Thanos would need the Time Stone to bring back the Mind Stone, previously it took the power of the Big Bang to condense all Six Singularities into the Six Infinity Stones.

The stones are stated to be remnants of the real singularies that were left after the big bang and then forged to infinity stones, they dont have a original form since they are only remnants not the actual singularities and it didnt took the big bang to form them.

Is the word "Destroy" in your understanding somehow only mean that there's nothing left and no trace of something at all?

Destroy means they dont work anymore.

 

[RoTt35]

Can we stop with this derailment please? This would matter if it were CM type 1, but only type 2 is being proposed. Besides, the Infinity Stones are not the concepts themselves as they existed before, they can simply manipulate them

 

[ThanatosX]

I think the proposal makes sense, I agree with it.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I mean, at least its CM. Agreed

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

@Emirp sumitpo @Lonkitt @Colonel_Krukov @LordGriffin1000 @Starter_Pack could you give input here please?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

From the 3 statements, type 2 seems fine.

 

[RoTt35]

Do we have enough staff support to add the changes?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Do we have enough staff support to add the changes?

I mean you've got two admins and a mod that agree (might as well throw my vote into the type 2 CM agree camp as well) but personally I would like to see at least @Emirp sumitpo, @Colonel_Krukov or @Lonkitt give they PoV since not only are they staff but they're knowledge about the MCU and Marvel in general but that's just me.

 

[Lonkitt]

This is fine. I agree with the revision

 

[RoTt35]

This is fine. I agree with the revision

Thanks for the input, I'll start adding the changes to the profiles so you can close the thread now

 

[Lonkitt]