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MCU Captain Marvel Downgrade

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Mageman460

Mageman460

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At Least Island Level

At the moment, Captain Marvel is rated as "At Least Island Level." The issue with this is that she doesn't really scale to anything above Island Level. She scales directly to Thanos for grappling with him. Thanos either upscales from the Thor calc or downscales from the IG's 5 gigatons. As this is barely above Baseline Island level and if I'm correct 10x away from Island level+, I fail to see her being At Least 6-C. Basically, her "At Least" needs to be removed ... however there is more to it than just that.
I misremembered "At Least" as meaning the character could be a higher tier (ie 6-C+) and not "Far higher than." Next point still exists as a reason for this though.

Removing Island Level

Captain Marvel really shouldn't be 6-C at all. Her justifications are 1) "Destroyed armored Kree ships when inexperienced.", 2) "Casually put an injured Thanos in a headlock.", 3) "Overpowered Thanos in a brief fight, though Thanos was already in pain from wearing the Nano Gauntlet, forcing him to use the Power Stone to defeat her." I'll next address why these aren't really justification for 6-C.

  1. "Destroyed armored Kree ships when inexperienced." Destroying armored Kree ships isn't 6-C at all. It's At least 8-A, but that's an inexperienced feat so doesn't really matter to her full power.

  2. "Casually put an injured Thanos in a headlock." This also isn't really a 6-C feat. This was Thanos after he used the stones to destroy the stones, in other words he wasn't injured he was crippled. What's more, we see a High 7-A+ character and a much lower character restrain the same Thanos's arms. So this is at best, an outlier for War Machine and a High 7-A+ feat, or a feat on par with War Machine at worst. Also, I'm fairly certain restraining isn't even an AP feat, but a LS feat.

  3. "Overpowered Thanos in a brief fight, though Thanos was already in pain from wearing the Nano Gauntlet, forcing him to use the Power Stone to defeat her." This one is most likely the big one that justifies the whole 6-C rating, however this is still rather shaky standing. To start, she has two rounds against Thanos. The first round she gets tossed aside easily. Second round she comes back after Thanos puts on the gauntlet, and thus starts experiencing that 5 gigatons, and starts to overpower him. So once again, she starts overpowering an injured, albeit not as injured, Thanos. What's more, this isn't the same peak Thanos that fought Thor, Cap, and Iron Man at the same time. This is post Scarlet Witch almost crushing him to death. At the point that Captain Marvel attacked Thanos, the second time, he had been beaten on by Mjolnir Cap, Stormbreaker + Mjolnir Thor, Scarlet Witch, and he had put on the Nano Gauntlet. In other words, the Thanos she fought towards the end was an injured, and potentially tired, Thanos. Furthermore, she never really does any damage, only over powering him in terms of pushing him down. There's one more thing to actually note about this feat, which I will get into next.
Energy Absorption

Well, this isn't entirely a downgrade. Captain Marvel deserves Energy Absorption. In the Marvel Studio: Character Encyclopedia Danvers is said to have a "Body able to absorb energy." On top of this, when Captain Marvel grapples the Nano Gauntlet wearing Thanos. Her aura starts to flare up, while the Infinity Stones stop glowing and the power stops flowing into Thanos. Thus I'm proposing that she starts to absorb the energy and get stronger. Supporting evidence is that she doesn't really put a fight before she gets her hands on the gauntlet.

Proposal

What I'm proposing is a few things. Captain Marvel should at the very least lose her "At Least" in the Island Level. There is no way she is more than 10x stronger than Base Thanos. Beyond that, Danvers should be High 7-A+, 6-C with Energy Absorption.

Counter Arguments

Scarlet Witch is At Least 6-C. She not only clearly stomped Thanos, but also had the power to destroy an Infinity Stone, her at least is justified.
Character Encyclopedia isn't used. Fair, but, Danvers still shouldn't scale to peak Thanos. He is barely 6-C and was already injured to the point of calling a bombardment on his troops.
She took a punch from the Power Stone. The Power Stone varies in power, and is specifically said to. Iron Man also tanked a blast from it, so if anything that's High 7-A+.
 
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ElixirBlue said:
Wasn’t she batted away from Thanos using the Power Stone?
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Yes, however, Iron Man was directly blasted by Power Stone and only got "Higher" to his High 7-A. The Power Stone varies in power depending on the size of the target.
LordTracer said:
That’s not what an ‘At least’ rating means...
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She would need to be at least 10x stronger than Base Thanos to be Island Level+, unless I got something wrong?
 
Then that's my bad, I thought "At Least" meant that they might scale to a higher tier. However, she still shouldn't scale higher than Thanos, as I point out in my second part of my argument.
 
LordTracer said:
That’s not what an ‘At least’ rating means...
Click to expand...
Correct, but the reasoning for the removal of 'At least' is still justified in my eyes. To be 'at least 6-C' she'd have to show she's much stronger on a regular basis than 6-Cs. Going back and forth with Thanos isn't enough to grant 'at least' and so it should be removed.

I agree with the remove of 'At least' but I'm netural on the 'High 7-A+, 6-C with EA' part.
 
I wasn’t contesting that part of the OP, I was just explaining what the ‘At least’ meant.
 
Yes, I realize my mistake there, I was just about to edit the OP with that, but my second point still stands as a reason to at least get rid of the "At Least."
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
I agree with the remove of 'At least' but I'm netural on the 'High 7-A+, 6-C with EA' part.
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I'm kinda feeling the same way about this, I have no problem and can agree with removing the at least part of it all but I'd like to iterate that in the MCU canon the people within the verse quite commonly seem to believe Captain Marvel could outright beat Thanos in some capacity, she should remain at Island level I'm just iffy on the with Energy absorption being the justification for Island. I also would like to point out that Captain Marvel after fully awakening to her abilities always emits light or an aura when she's using her powers also back onto her actual scuffle with Thanos before touching the gauntlet you state:
Mageman460 said:
Supporting evidence is that she doesn't really put a fight before she gets her hands on the gauntlet.
Click to expand...
Which I don't really see being the case watching the clip she lands a few blows on Thanos while dodging his and is only thrown away before she touches the gauntlet so I mean there's no saying she didn't really put up a fight before touching the gauntlet since she's visibly tagging him more, staggering him all while dancing around any attacks he throws out.
 
As far as I remember, the only person who says Captain Marvel could outright beat Thanos is Darcy in WandaVision (though if there are others, than feel free to let me know.) I'd hardly consider her a reputable source in terms of power scaling. I just noticed during my rewatch of the film last night that her aura flared up more, at least to me, when she grabbed the gauntlet. Either way, the brief tussle with Thanos isn't really enough to justify fully scaling considering we have people who fight for much longer periods of time and are High 7-A+. For example Iron Man, Thor, and Hulk. Furthermore, she doesn't really do much damage to him, at least until she grabs the gauntlet. She staggers him a bit, which is about as much as the High 7-A+ characters do. I rewatched the scene just now and she certainly staggers him, but through a sneak attack, and then she's grabbed and thrown across the battle field. Also, her aura, particularly in her hands, seems brighter when she grabs the gauntlet. Not to mention, when she grabs the gauntlet, the stones dim. Once Thanos rips out the Power Stone, the stone flares to life again.
 
Mageman460 said:
As far as I remember, the only person who says Captain Marvel could outright beat Thanos is Darcy in WandaVision
Click to expand...
Not exactly what was stated, they were mentioning people who were "close" to defeating Thanos, and she mentioned Carol.

On topic, I think I agree, she didn't put any actual fight before grabbing the gauntlet, her punches felt very weak and Thanos himself was tired from fighting Thor, Iron Man, Cap and a beatdown from Wanda, for some reasons somehow Carol was able to overpower him, maybe the energy absorption is a logical explanation.

Putting her at High 7-A at the same tier as Thor seems reasonable.
 
Slacjow said:
Putting her at High 7-A at the same tier as Thor seems reasonable.
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Lol that did just click with me again after reading this Thor is high 7-A but 6-C with storm breaker so it wouldn't be too far fetched for Carol to be the same via energy absorption. The only point I didn't outright agree with is that she got stomped before touching the gauntlet it was more of a brief exchange with both sides not doing significant damage to the other but other than that I can definitely accept this as is.
 
Yeah, I think a High 7-A+ (Comparable to Awakened Thor), 6-C with Energy Absorption (Was overpowering Thanos until he used the Power Stone) would be the best option. This does require her to actually get Energy Absorption on her profile though.
 
I agree that Captain Marvel shouldn't scale to Thanos at all, especially since Thanos was confirmed to be the strongest MCU character (disregarding entities like Ego and such). I'm pretty sure she should be around the same league as Awakened/Post-Decimated Thor (as Thor didn't seem to lose power even after these 5 years) and Professor Hulk.

I think High 7-A+, higher with Energy Absorption would be the best solution for her. I could see her scale to Baseline 6-C with energy absorption but I'll leave that for a debate
 
Agree with this. Although i think "High 7-A, up to 6-C with Energy Absorption" is better. It shouldn't be a concrete tier because it would obviously vary with what she absorbs.
 
I always had this sentiment that Thanos was severly weakned and exhausted by the attacks he took from Cap, Iron Man, Thor, Scarlet Witch, the bombardment of his own fleet, the combined blast from Rescue, Shuri and Wasp, the restrain from Thor and Cap, absorbing the emitting energy of the Nano-Gauntlet twice.

And even after all that, Danvers was only stopping him from just closing a single hand, something that not only a few characters have done previously (Like Strange and Iron Man), but is not even that impressive in real life.

My 6 year old cousin could potentially stop me from closing the fingers one of my hands using her two hands, but how does that even imply she is stronger than me? Really...
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
I agree that Captain Marvel shouldn't scale to Thanos at all, especially since Thanos was confirmed to be the strongest MCU character (disregarding entities like Ego and such). I'm pretty sure she should be around the same league as Awakened/Post-Decimated Thor (as Thor didn't seem to lose power even after these 5 years) and Professor Hulk.

I think High 7-A+, higher with Energy Absorption would be the best solution for her. I could see her scale to Baseline 6-C with energy absorption but I'll leave that for a debate
Click to expand...
wait when was he confirmed to be so strong?
 
The main argument for keeping 6-C was that Thanos's headbutt didn't affect her, when it was capable of knocking out Thor right before. However, considering the other evidence we have, I do not think this would be enough for 6-C

Besides that, Thanos was clearly weakened due to the gauntlet, and the other main feats are LS feats which are comparable to other High 7-A MCU Characters, AND Thanos was capable of picking her up and throwing her easily right before.

I agree about High 7-A being her base tier, and I agree with energy absorption since this is stated.
 
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I don't think Captain Marvel should scale above Thanos as I have been making the arguments the OP is currently making already in the past but I happened to be in the minority.

I'm neutral if she should be 6-C however.
 
So has this been accepted then, and if so, is somebody experienced and knowledgeable willing to apply it?
 
Dalesean027 said:
Which I don't really see being the case watching the clip she lands a few blows on Thanos while dodging his and is only thrown away before she touches the gauntlet so I mean there's no saying she didn't really put up a fight before touching the gauntlet since she's visibly tagging him more, staggering him all while dancing around any attacks he throws out.
Click to expand...
That's not really the same logic however. If she's his strength, why dodge and not block? Her fighting style in prior MCU timeline content shows she can be headstrong and would tank or block a hit if possible. Dodging? Really? And what, she's gonna pull that when he uses a beam like he did against Iron Man in Ifinity War? Or if someone is behind her? She wouldn't risk Thanos hitting someone weaker or the area around her (which is covered in allies and foes alike). She'd take hits like that if she can stand it. She's still a hero, but not an idiot. And she talks a big game. Allot. If this was (slightly older) Infinity War Thanos (2018, not 2023) or unharmed Thanos (2014 aka Gaurdians of the Galaxy), it's more likely that we'd see her get the Hulk's treatment.

Like with other characters, if you dodge, it implies you rather not get hit (implying she's not exactly as strong as her opponent). At best, this is an argument for her speed, not raw power exertion/durability.
 
Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer said:
That's not really the same logic however. If she's his strength, why dodge and not block? Her fighting style in prior MCU timeline content shows she can be headstrong and would tank or block a hit if possible. Dodging? Really? And what, she's gonna pull that when he uses a beam like he did against Iron Man in Ifinity War? Or if someone is behind her? She wouldn't risk Thanos hitting someone weaker or the area around her (which is covered in allies and foes alike). She'd take hits like that if she can stand it. She's still a hero, but not an idiot. And she talks a big game. Allot. If this was (slightly older) Infinity War Thanos (2018, not 2023) or unharmed Thanos (2014 aka Gaurdians of the Galaxy), it's more likely that we'd see her get the Hulk's treatment.

Like with other characters, if you dodge, it implies you rather not get hit (implying she's not exactly as strong as her opponent). At best, this is an argument for her speed, not raw power exertion/durability.
Click to expand...
Yeah I've already retracted that point and agreed to the downgrade and 6-C by energy absorption, we see her completely change when she actually grabs the gauntlet instead of dodging she outright tanks his headbutt and begins to overpower him as her aura flares up. And the point I was making when I said that is that she's not completely helpless against Thanos.
 
If we do not know her upper limits when absorbing energy, the third option may be best, especially if Marvel wants to use her Binary mode down the line.
 
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