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Maybe DBS Grand Priest could be upgraded to low 2-C
- Thread starter UltraInstinctGoku
- Start date
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- dragon ball grand priest
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Well Zamasu did become the concept of "justice" in that universe and he was spreading across time and in the manga at least (which i know is secondary canon) the ring representing the timeline was destroyed
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Pretty sure, Whis had to create a new timeline for Trunks to return too.
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Well we do know that Whis had to send Trunks and Mai to another timeline so they could live after theirs was destroyed so there is that.
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Same way he did on the manga.
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We've been over Low 2-C Zamasu so many times. Everytime something Low 2-C revolving scaling to him is discussed, we have a discussion on downgrading him. Let's wait until Matt gets here.
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Well I'm still against the idea of Grand Priest scaling to Infinite Zamasu based on a single statement.
Although im interested in what Matt has to say.
Although im interested in what Matt has to say.
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Yes but William, we know.how time travel works in dragon ball, it creates a new branch timeline.
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Here we go again. How about we just wait on Matt....
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- Thread starter
- #96
I dont think infinite zamasu should be downgraded. Zeno erased the entire future multiverse timeline because zamasu was already leaking to other timelines. If zamasu had not impregnated the entire multiverse already, there would be no reason to erase more than what was affected. Zamasu os definitely low 2-C. Question is, i believe Grand Priest should be stronger considering his position in the multiverse.
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But yeah, i know, no feats, no proof. For now its just my headcanon lol.
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We probably should. And then let Matthew open it again when he wants to respond.
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I will try to analyze this the best I can in my next post.
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Okay, so the two sides are:
"Grand Priest should be Low 2-C scaling from Infinite Zamasu"
And:
"We have no proof that none of the High 3-A characters can affect space-time and are stronger than Infinite Zamasu"
I am of the opinion of the former.
Let's analyze evidence:
https://animefrost.us/anime/dragon-ball-super/0/67/
(Apologies for linking to Fansub Site. Couldn't find the scene on youtube)
Scene happens at 7:22 minutes.
Whis: Hmm... I sense... A flow of unpleasant energy that makes my skin tingle.
Beerus: It's Zamasu. Something happened in the future. It's having an effect on the present.
Notably, both Beerus and Whis are concerned and viewing Infinite Zamasu as a definite problem / threat. This is notable because up until this point, Beerus has been portrayed as completely non-nonchalant and casual. He didn't fear any of the Super Villains up until that point.
So no doubt Infinite Zamasu is at the very least a significant threat to Beerus, if not stronger (Which we assumed to be the case given him having the best feat in Super besides Zeno).
Now, Jiren arrives and changes everything.
Supreme Kai: This power feels different from anyone we've ever faced before. He's strong. Plain and simple.
So Supreme Kai says that Jiren's power is different than anything he and the U7 have faced because he is stronger.
Whis: I daresay... Like a God of Destruction. He is the one who has reached that state. Perhaps even surpassed it. "There is a universe where lives a mortal even a God of Destruction can't defeat." It appears the rumor is true.
And Whis says that Jiren's power is like that of a God of Destruction, if not stronger.
By the way, this happens when Jiren is still really suppressed tanking the Genki Dama.
Then Goku reaches his new, Ultra Instinct Form and fights a serious Jiren.
Khai: I can't believe someone who could gain on Jiren this much even exists!
Belmod: It's not possible! It can't be possible!
So Khai is absolutely shocked someone can match Jiren and Belmod says it's not possible.
By the way, Jiren is stronger than Belmod, by Belmod's own word.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvxLbcJuYB0
Look at all the GoDs' and Kais' reaction to Ultra Instinct Goku. They are shocked that he is so strong. Beerus is left with his mouth agape.
Beerus: Ultra Instinct...
[Champa is utterly shocked, other GoDs get surprised]
Anat: I see. Those movements... But, for a mortal like Son Goku...? That is a state not even a god can easily attain.
Not only that, but the Ultra Instinct level is something that the GoDs have a difficulty reaching. The Angels have no problem with it, but it is really impressive to the GoDs.
With all of this in mind, here is my conclusion:
Shin says that Jiren's power is completely different than anything that the Universe 7 has ever faced, because he is stronger than them. To that, Whis agrees, and states that he is on the level of a God of Destruction, if not stronger.
Beerus is utterly shocked at Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren's power, when he was previously only concerned by Infinite Zamasu.
The conclusion is simple:
Jiren and Goku, and by extension the Angels and Grand Priest, are stronger than Infinite Zamasu.
It is likely that Infinite Zamasu is on the level of a God, if not a bit weaker. He is at the most on the same level.
Meanwhile, Jiren and Ultra Instinct Goku are stronger, even if not immensely strong.
The Angels are even stronger, and Grand Priest is above even that.
Jiren and Ultra Instinct Goku should be Low 2-C too. The justification should be: "Even when holding back, Jiren was stated by Supreme Kai to be more powerful than anyone he and the Universe 7 warriors have ever faced, which should make him more powerful than Infinite Zamasu. Stated to have reached the level of a God of Destruction, if not surpassed it completely. His power let Beerus completely shocked, when he was previously only concerned by Infinite Zamasu's power. Even when suppressed, his Ki alone shook the entirety of the World of Void, a dimension of infinite size"
All the Angels should be Low 2-C, with the reasoning being (Much stronger than any God of Destruction, and stronger than Jiren and Ultra Instinct Goku as well)
And Grand Priest should be At least Low 2-C for being far above the Angels and inferior to only Zeno and three other unknowns.
"Grand Priest should be Low 2-C scaling from Infinite Zamasu"
And:
"We have no proof that none of the High 3-A characters can affect space-time and are stronger than Infinite Zamasu"
I am of the opinion of the former.
Let's analyze evidence:
- 1) So, as we all know, Infinite Zamasu has a blatant Low 2-C feat. Encompassing the universe (And later multiverse if not stopped) across space-time.
https://animefrost.us/anime/dragon-ball-super/0/67/
(Apologies for linking to Fansub Site. Couldn't find the scene on youtube)
Scene happens at 7:22 minutes.
Whis: Hmm... I sense... A flow of unpleasant energy that makes my skin tingle.
Beerus: It's Zamasu. Something happened in the future. It's having an effect on the present.
Notably, both Beerus and Whis are concerned and viewing Infinite Zamasu as a definite problem / threat. This is notable because up until this point, Beerus has been portrayed as completely non-nonchalant and casual. He didn't fear any of the Super Villains up until that point.
So no doubt Infinite Zamasu is at the very least a significant threat to Beerus, if not stronger (Which we assumed to be the case given him having the best feat in Super besides Zeno).
Now, Jiren arrives and changes everything.
- 2) Statements about Jiren's power:
Supreme Kai: This power feels different from anyone we've ever faced before. He's strong. Plain and simple.
So Supreme Kai says that Jiren's power is different than anything he and the U7 have faced because he is stronger.
Whis: I daresay... Like a God of Destruction. He is the one who has reached that state. Perhaps even surpassed it. "There is a universe where lives a mortal even a God of Destruction can't defeat." It appears the rumor is true.
And Whis says that Jiren's power is like that of a God of Destruction, if not stronger.
By the way, this happens when Jiren is still really suppressed tanking the Genki Dama.
Then Goku reaches his new, Ultra Instinct Form and fights a serious Jiren.
- 3) The Gods' reaction to Goku and Jiren:
Khai: I can't believe someone who could gain on Jiren this much even exists!
Belmod: It's not possible! It can't be possible!
So Khai is absolutely shocked someone can match Jiren and Belmod says it's not possible.
By the way, Jiren is stronger than Belmod, by Belmod's own word.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvxLbcJuYB0
Look at all the GoDs' and Kais' reaction to Ultra Instinct Goku. They are shocked that he is so strong. Beerus is left with his mouth agape.
Beerus: Ultra Instinct...
[Champa is utterly shocked, other GoDs get surprised]
Anat: I see. Those movements... But, for a mortal like Son Goku...? That is a state not even a god can easily attain.
Not only that, but the Ultra Instinct level is something that the GoDs have a difficulty reaching. The Angels have no problem with it, but it is really impressive to the GoDs.
With all of this in mind, here is my conclusion:
- 4) Conclusions:
Shin says that Jiren's power is completely different than anything that the Universe 7 has ever faced, because he is stronger than them. To that, Whis agrees, and states that he is on the level of a God of Destruction, if not stronger.
Beerus is utterly shocked at Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren's power, when he was previously only concerned by Infinite Zamasu.
The conclusion is simple:
Jiren and Goku, and by extension the Angels and Grand Priest, are stronger than Infinite Zamasu.
It is likely that Infinite Zamasu is on the level of a God, if not a bit weaker. He is at the most on the same level.
Meanwhile, Jiren and Ultra Instinct Goku are stronger, even if not immensely strong.
The Angels are even stronger, and Grand Priest is above even that.
- 5) Tier Changes:
Jiren and Ultra Instinct Goku should be Low 2-C too. The justification should be: "Even when holding back, Jiren was stated by Supreme Kai to be more powerful than anyone he and the Universe 7 warriors have ever faced, which should make him more powerful than Infinite Zamasu. Stated to have reached the level of a God of Destruction, if not surpassed it completely. His power let Beerus completely shocked, when he was previously only concerned by Infinite Zamasu's power. Even when suppressed, his Ki alone shook the entirety of the World of Void, a dimension of infinite size"
All the Angels should be Low 2-C, with the reasoning being (Much stronger than any God of Destruction, and stronger than Jiren and Ultra Instinct Goku as well)
And Grand Priest should be At least Low 2-C for being far above the Angels and inferior to only Zeno and three other unknowns.
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Low 2-C. I am not gonna comment further after this.. All I can say is that i completely disagree that someone gets upgraded on a similar way to Infinte times greater tier without a feat. At least not Goku and Jiren since even that shaking the void (high 3-A)could have easily been a metaphor as there was no change in void it self.
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Hmmmmm well mat has some very good points and i'm kinda inclined to agree
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It's not a metaphor, it was stated twice and in both instances they go "Not just the arena, but the whole World of Void is being shaken".
They specify that it is the entirety of the World of Void. It's not a metaphor at all.
And the Angels have feats. They can one-shot any GoD with utmost ease.
They specify that it is the entirety of the World of Void. It's not a metaphor at all.
And the Angels have feats. They can one-shot any GoD with utmost ease.
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Perhaps this should be discussed in the staff thread about Jiren to keep it organized?
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Yes, we should probably keep this discussion to the ongoing staff thread about Jiren. A Dragon Ball upgrade to Low 2-C for much of the cast is a very potentially explosive topic. It is likely best to close this thread.
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Okay, close it. I will repost my argument there.
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Yeah no, I disagree will, I agree with Matt, the feat is Zamasu, the scaling is from direct statements.
What's the problem?
What's the problem?
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Being stated twice doesn't mean it's not a metaphor cause again show me any change in the void it self, If they were actually shaking something, we would of seen things like with Goku vs Beerus or anything of the kind.
Also, the first time androids were talking about shaking of the void they judged it on the air pressure they were feeling and not because they felt an actual shaking and pretty sure Old Kai did the same.
Goku and Jiren don't and nothing implies that they are even comparable to Angels. In fact Whis even said that perhaps Jiren surpassed Belmod. Which likely means that even if he did it's not by a lot.
Also, any God? We saw Beerus getting one shot, but at the same time we saw Geene or whatever the name being pretty convinced he could easily beat 3 other gods who could easily be stronger than Beerus or if you prefer equals.
Also, that same Belmod later says that not a single person was able to give Jiren a challenge so that kinda contradicts his previous statement.
Also, the first time androids were talking about shaking of the void they judged it on the air pressure they were feeling and not because they felt an actual shaking and pretty sure Old Kai did the same.
Goku and Jiren don't and nothing implies that they are even comparable to Angels. In fact Whis even said that perhaps Jiren surpassed Belmod. Which likely means that even if he did it's not by a lot.
Also, any God? We saw Beerus getting one shot, but at the same time we saw Geene or whatever the name being pretty convinced he could easily beat 3 other gods who could easily be stronger than Beerus or if you prefer equals.
Also, that same Belmod later says that not a single person was able to give Jiren a challenge so that kinda contradicts his previous statement.
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