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Master Sword changes + possibly High 6-A characters getting upgraded to 4-A/Low 2-C

Just because the Master Sword is constantly at the same level of strength doesn’t necessarily mean all the Links wielding it have that same level. After all, Link right after taking the Master Sword isn’t at the same level as Link at the end of the game, so just having the MS isn’t enough to bring Link to whatever tier the MS is. I’m not denying that the MS amps Link, just that it does not amp Link to the full level of the MS, as otherwise Link right after taking the MS would already be at the same tier as at the end of the game.
 
Triforce makes sense; even if we merged the keys, I have a feeling it shouldn't be assumed the highest tier. So maybe a downgrade for True Master Sword but Skyward Sword Link scales to/from Demise himself. I too was iffy about scaling base Ganondorf and others and assuming he's just as strong as Demise and Hylia, especially considering that he and Zelda at least without Triforces have pretty much no reason to be anywhere near as strong as the deities they are reincarnated from.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
Just because the Master Sword is constantly at the same level of strength doesn’t necessarily mean all the Links wielding it have that same level. After all, Link right after taking the Master Sword isn’t at the same level as Link at the end of the game, so just having the MS isn’t enough to bring Link to whatever tier the MS is. I’m not denying that the MS amps Link, just that it does not amp Link to the full level of the MS, as otherwise Link right after taking the MS would already be at the same tier as at the end of the game.
Click to expand...
Ok something must be bugged because your message is blank to me. I've tried refreshing but nothing is showing up for me, which is weird since it's only this message that's not showing anything.

DarkDragonMedeus said:
Triforce makes sense; even if we merged the keys, I have a feeling it shouldn't be assumed the highest tier. So maybe a downgrade for True Master Sword but Skyward Sword Link scales to/from Demise himself. I too was iffy about scaling base Ganondorf and others and assuming he's just as strong as Demise and Hylia, especially considering that he and Zelda at least without Triforces have pretty much no reason to be anywhere near as strong as the deities they are reincarnated from.
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I'd be fine with just making the True Master Sword High 6-A with Skyward Sword Link beating Demise due to his own strength.
 
Don't care much about Zelda stuff on this wiki anymore.

But I want to point out that the master sword powers tends to change or stay unless explicitly told.


After ALTTP. the hero of light comes across the Golden master Sword Lv 4 a stronger version of the one Link used after putting it in the pedestal after defeating Ganon and being gone x amount of years.

Not only the master maintained the level of power it had, it also went up by 1. since when you put in the pedestal in ATTLP it's the Golden master sword Lv3 not 4.


And the blacksmith dwarfs tells you he can't upgrade its power any further because at that time it was at its strongest.


At this point its better to go by case by case basis. Because like stated above only in wind waker was it stated have become weaker and in breath of the wild Link wasn't properly attuned with the master sword hence the trials he to do to unlock its proper power.


This is no different then OOT MS putting Link to sleep because he was not ready to weild the MS power.

Most other Link didn't have that kind of problem unless some 3rd party affected the MS.


Like Malice.

It was the cause of the sword getting weaker it had nothing to do with it chilling in the pedestal.

Because in AoC we literally see the master sword and Link throwing hands left and right with out the need of doing the trials.
 
Bump

TriforcePower1 said:
Just because the Master Sword is constantly at the same level of strength doesn’t necessarily mean all the Links wielding it have that same level. After all, Link right after taking the Master Sword isn’t at the same level as Link at the end of the game, so just having the MS isn’t enough to bring Link to whatever tier the MS is. I’m not denying that the MS amps Link, just that it does not amp Link to the full level of the MS, as otherwise Link right after taking the MS would already be at the same tier as at the end of the game.
Click to expand...
Ayy this message finally loaded for me. I'd be fine with just assuming that various Links are unable to use the Master Swords full power, although this wouldn't stop the issue of how'd we have to scale the High 6-A characters, we wouldn't be able to just assume the MS specifically amps up to twice the strength Goddess Sword before it just stops giving more of it's power. So if we go the route of the MS being 4-A/Low 2-C but various Links are unable to attain it's full power we may have to change the ratings of all the High 6-A characters to something lower anyway.

AshenCrow777 said:
After ALTTP. the hero of light comes across the Golden master Sword Lv 4 a stronger version of the one Link used after putting it in the pedestal after defeating Ganon and being gone x amount of years.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about that BS Zelda thing Nintendo did in the mid 90s? Because I'm 99% sure that's non-canon.
 
High 6-A comes from Levias' storm; though a back up of being two times stronger than base Goddess Sword. But even at the Master Sword's absolute weakest, I have doubts of it being below the basic Goddess Sword.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
High 6-A comes from Levias' storm; though a back up of being two times stronger than base Goddess Sword. But even at the Master Sword's absolute weakest, I have doubts of it being below the basic Goddess Sword.
Click to expand...
High 6-A only came from being much stronger than Faron, we didn't scale the MS or anyone else to Levias' storm (That feat scales only to himself). If we go the route you suggested of downgrading the True Master Sword to High 6-A then yeah at it's weakest it shouldn't be below the Goddess Sword, but if we go the route Triforce suggested where we make the Master Sword 4-A/Low 2-C but don't scale various Links to it's full power unless there's reason to then we really can't put the MS at it's weakest on the level of the Goddess Sword, it's be pretty weird to say the MS can very specifically amp you up to or somewhat above the level of an older version of itself but no higher or lower unless shown or stated otherwise.

Also I only just noticed this now (Still related to the Master Sword and temple bosses), but the scaling for OOT and TP bosses at High 6-A doesn't currently make sense. They're High 6-A via scaling to Link with the Master Sword but during those fights he also has the Triforce of Courage, and we currently treat the MS+TOC together as being 4-A/Low 2-C. So we'd need to sort out the scaling for them anyway since High 6-A doesn't make sense with what's accepted, either that or we need to make changes to the Master Sword + Triforce of Courage key by downgrading it or something.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Are you talking about that BS Zelda thing Nintendo did in the mid 90s? Because I'm 99% sure that's non-canon.
Click to expand...
It is considered Canon whether it is BS or not is subjective but Nintendo considered it Canon and never went out of its to say its non Canon like they always do involving games carrying the LoZ title on them.
 
Dust_Collector said:
High 6-A only came from being much stronger than Faron, we didn't scale the MS or anyone else to Levias' storm (That feat scales only to himself). If we go the route you suggested of downgrading the True Master Sword to High 6-A then yeah at it's weakest it shouldn't be below the Goddess Sword, but if we go the route Triforce suggested where we make the Master Sword 4-A/Low 2-C but don't scale various Links to it's full power unless there's reason to then we really can't put the MS at it's weakest on the level of the Goddess Sword, it's be pretty weird to say the MS can very specifically amp you up to or somewhat above the level of an older version of itself but no higher or lower unless shown or stated otherwise.

Also I only just noticed this now (Still related to the Master Sword and temple bosses), but the scaling for OOT and TP bosses at High 6-A doesn't currently make sense. They're High 6-A via scaling to Link with the Master Sword but during those fights he also has the Triforce of Courage, and we currently treat the MS+TOC together as being 4-A/Low 2-C. So we'd need to sort out the scaling for them anyway since High 6-A doesn't make sense with what's accepted, either that or we need to make changes to the Master Sword + Triforce of Courage key by downgrading it or something.
Click to expand...
We can't really downgrade MS+ToC since that will create huge inconsistencies when he actually goes against the ToP since the MS+ToC always stalemate/overpowers Ganondorf with the ToC in the end.


And yeah downgrading the true master sword is just a no no. Why would the strongest version of the sword be on the same level as its weakest when the whole poi t was to upgrade it and make it stronger.


True Master sword cannot be high 6-C or whatever
 
Oh yeah; side note. Having 4 tiers on a single key would be stupidly cluttered. I was about to mention a variable from High 6-A to At least 4-A, likely 3-A, Possibly Low 2-C; but it would just get really messy there.
 
AshenCrow777 said:
We can't really downgrade MS+ToC since that will create huge inconsistencies when he actually goes against the ToP since the MS+ToC always stalemate/overpowers Ganondorf with the ToC in the end.
Click to expand...
Yeah I personally don't think that key should be downgraded, just listed it as a kinda funny suggestion for those who may not like the idea of making the temple bosses who fought Links that have the MS+TOC 4-A to Low 2-C.

AshenCrow777 said:
And yeah downgrading the true master sword is just a no no. Why would the strongest version of the sword be on the same level as its weakest when the whole poi t was to upgrade it and make it stronger.


True Master sword cannot be high 6-C or whatever
Click to expand...
Who suggested making it High 6-C or making it weaker than the Goddess Sword? I was simply saying that if we go the route TriforcePower suggested where we make the Master Sword 4-A/3-A/Low 2-C but don't scale Links who wield it to that level unless they have feats or statements that say they can scale to it, then we can't assume that, I dunno, BOTW Link can very specifically get amped to 6-A/High 6-A but no higher or lower so maybe we'd have to scale him to feats in BOTW/AOC instead of to other characters from other games. The Master Sword would remain stronger than the Goddess Sword, certain Links who wield it however may not have reason to be stronger than it if we go with Triforces suggestion.

The lowest the True Master Sword would be downgraded is High 6-A if we go with DDMs suggestion of not scaling it to Demise and instead saying that SS Link was simply stronger during the final boss fight then he was when the Master Sword was fully complete.
 
Link directly scales to the master sword since it is directly stated that "You feel the Master swords power course through your body."

Link's soul is literally attuned to the MS hence the reason why he's the only one (Aside from Zelda and descendents) that can weild it.

Breath of the wild Great deku tree said that Link wasn't attuned properly to the sword hence the reason why it almost killed him.


Plus there's other things like.

"The goddess has blessed your blade, and the Master Sword has at last achieved its ultimate form! The sword is now imbued with the mythical power to drive back demons, and only Link may wield it!" — N/A (Skyward Sword)


^^^Link being the only one that can truly weild it to its max potential (there's exceptions of course since the sword can chose who can weild or even touch it)

"The True Master Sword, blessed by the goddess Hylia in Skyward Sword, possesses the Light Force that is the source of all life in the world." (Encyclopedia (Dark Horse Books) pg. 82)

^^^The MS not only was it forged and powered by the essence of the 3 Golden goddesses it was also imbued with the light force. Link is also connected to the light force since let's not forget his soul was tailored by Hylia. The same goddess who also gave the light force power into the MS (and Link), plus the true Master sword is a thing acknowledge by Nintendo and not a thing that was made up.

"Hummph... The puny fool's rage is somehow being channeled by the Master Sword! He and the sword are as one!" (A Link to the Past (Nintendo Power) pg. 2)

^^^The evil wizard in ALTTP (can't remember his name) realized that that Link's rage is quite literally being channeled into the sword and realize they are one (which is consistent in every LoZ games)

"There can be no doubt. The sacred flames have purified this blade. Well done, Link. That sword holds tremendous power. That power is a sacred force. It is a divine power left us by the gods of old. The same power that is spoken of in the Ballad of the Goddess." — Impa (Skyward Sword)


^^^Here Impa talks about the Sacred force empowering the MS it's the same force has the one talked in the ballad of the goddess (the Triforce) since both of these (MS and TF are powered by the essence of the Golden goddesses).


And in this video


It states that you can feel the sheer power of the sword flow through your body.

Plus other things I want to add for the MS

Its about the sols in Twilight princess that powers the entirety of the twilight realm


"That shining sphere illuminates this world. It's called a Sol. It's like the sun of your world, Link." — Princess Midna (Twilight Princess)

"The Sols were like the suns that illuminate this world." — Princess Midna (Twilight Princess)

"The power of the Sol is the source of life in this world... It is pure power." — Princess Midna (Twilight Princess)

Why I'm bringing this up? Simply because of this.

"The Master Sword infused with light. In the Twilight Realm, it shines with golden light." — N/A (Twilight Princess)

"Amazing... The power of the Sols has been transferred to your sword..." — Princess Midna (Twilight Princess )


Twilight princess Link was able to infuse/fuse/absorb the power of the Sols into the MS and by extension himself, (since the sword is either considered one with Link and/or he is directly powered by it) is literally what's keeps the entire twilight realm (universe size) functioning.


We can had these to the MS profile since a lot of people still doubt it's rating.



TL:DR Yes Link directly scale to the Master sword since they are basically considered one. Aside from Wind Waker and BOTW where the MS was depowred for really specific reasons one being keeping Ganondorf sealed who had the ToP for X amount of years.

Two being BOTW MS literally getting corrupted by calamity Ganon who fought Triforce wielding Zelda for a hundred years (which was yes confirmed in AoC the magic Zelda summoned was the Triforce itself).

the malice took a super long time to properly de-power it. by the time Link's gets his sword back it basically healed itself from the corruption.


Aside from that? the Master sword is never mentioned to be weaker. Link just goes out of his way to supercharge it or upgrade it like he did in OOT, ALTTP, ALBW and TP.
 
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Rip. Maybe you could just contact some active staff that might know something about this. I kinda feel bad for this thread tbh
 
The low end 4-A part yes, but giving the Master Sword a 3-A/Low 2-C high end is unaffected.
 
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