Master Combatants: Batman vs Wolf

[The_Wright_Way]

Batman FRA.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

That's 9 then. Would Zara's doubtful vote because of his debunked reasoning be counted, or do we assume he would agree with Wolf's new reasoning anyway and leave it at 7-9?

 

[Schnee_One]

Well now that I've looked over all of the reasons.

I also agree with Batboi FRA

 

[The_Wright_Way]

That's grace in Bat's favor.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Hm.

Grace finished a day ago, for incon. And then DC supporters appeared.

Welp. Sekiro is a bit more obscure so I suppose the same support is impossible here.

Oh well. Wiki darlings and whatnot. Cheers fellas.

 

[Schnee_One]

Don't let that salt dehydrate you on the way out

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Dirty laughing

 

[Schnee_One]

Hey King you never voted

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I don't see a whole lot of reason to.

The few things I would have said before if I'd had the time have already been said in some capacity, and honestly, this is a rare chance to see a character I like win a match without me having to vote for once. lol

 

[Aridwolverine]

To be fair some of the opposition's arguments don't make much sense.

They dismissed Sekiro's Phantom Kunai saying that Batman can "see through illusions" which actually makes no sense at all since these deal physical damage, homing, and are intangible. They was even a character named Inosuke Nogami who faced Lady Butterfly who uses these same projectiles. He ripped out his own eyes believing that would get rid of the illusions but they still were able to damage and nearly kill him.

They also mention Batman can beat him with stealth by simply being better than him which also makes no sense. Regardless of how stealthy you are, that doesn't automatically allow you to instantly detect someone with less stealth. If Batman went into stealth, then Sekiro would go into stealth as well and neither would be able to find each other.

And one of their main points is the use of precognition and instinctive reaction which, from looking at Batman's profile, are highly exaggerated in this debate. Whether reactions are automatic or manual, they move at the same speed. And since speed is equalized here, if Batman is physically too slow to dodge an attack from point blank range, then he wouldn't be able to dodge automatically either.

And his precognition. The opposition implies that Batman can react to all of Sekiro moves by knowing them before they happen. Batman precognition boils down to sensing danger which is incredibly weak seeing how one doesn't need to be a psychic to tell that their opponent is trying to kill them. Not only that, "danger sense" doesn't provide any information of the opponents attack or abilities. So even if Batman knows Sekiro is going to attack him, he won't know how or what he'll attack with.

 

[QrowBarr]

Probably because he has better senses if Wolf ever tries to go to stealth, but otherwise I agree on the illusion bit since they actually DO kill Wolf.

also grace has ended so I'll be adding this as incon heh

 

[AguilaR101]

Batman's stealth feats are obscenely better than Sekiro's considering whose senses it is consistently able to fool, there is no comparison to be made in that aspect, also doesn't batman just have equipment that would allow him to see sekiro plainly if he is not actively hiding behind something? what stops batman from detecting him through something as simple as thermal vision?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I'm pretty sure Bruce also has scanners in his cowl that can detect people through walls and obstructions.

That may be Post-Flashpoint though.

 

[Aridwolverine]

Sekiro has knows the Suppress Presence technique that removes his presence. People that would normally be able to sense someone's presence would not be able to sense Sekiro as he has no presence in the first place.

He also has the Suppress Sound technique that eliminates all noise he makes so no one can hear him.

Also I just noticed that with SBA, the fight takes place in Central Park where there really isn't any place to hide. If Batman for some reason decides to retreat into the city, not only would Sekiro get an opportunity to get a free hit in, Sekiro would go into a different direction and neither would find each other.

 

[AguilaR101]

Sekiro has knows the Suppress Presence technique that removes his presence. People that would normally be able to sense someone's presence would not be able to sense Sekiro as he has no presence in the first place.

If by "supress presence" you mean he is making himself undetectable by any wavelength in the EM spectrum then it's fair game, if it's just DBZ-esque hiding-your-ki deal it's pretty much useless against any form of radar/thermal technology batman most likely has on him.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I don't think a lack of presence suddenly makes your temperature nonexistent.

There's no place to hide in central park...? Excuse me, but what?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Don't let that salt dehydrate you on the way out

Not even mad. Just too busy to deal, worked a 16 hour shift. Wolf will/should lose about 50% of his matches if the people making them are to be trusted. Or incon. I disagree with the outcome but to get angry over a loss? Yer looking at the wrong internet filth to spite there, Garg.

 

[Aridwolverine]

There's no place to hide in central park...? Excuse me, but what?

The fight takes place in the wide open plains of central park. If one wants to make it into the trees, they would not only have to run quite a distance, but also expose their back to the enemy which would spell death. Also the trees are incredibly thin and small. Plus, if you take into consideration the fighters AP and abilities, they easily cut/burn the trees.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

At literally no point has that ever been a thing or implied in anyway. The location is simple Central Park.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Have you actually seen Central Park before?

There are very few "wide open plains" to speak of. A good 80-90% of the place is packed with trees, benches and other obstructions.

 

[Aridwolverine]

Trees that could be easily chopped or burned down.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I'm pretty sure Bruce also has scanners in his cowl that can detect people through walls and obstructions.

That may be Post-Flashpoint though.

He does, among various other Information Analysis abilities

 

[Yobo_Blue]

So, should this be requested, or....

 

[QrowBarr]

I dunno, I feel like this'll be thunder mcqueen now.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Trees that could be easily chopped or burned down.

Your guy Wolf must have some truly legendary stealth feats if you're convinced he can chop and burn down a bunch of trees in Central Park while remaining unnoticed by anyone.

Unless you're saying he'll find the exact spot Bats is hiding in and destroy it before Bruce can see it coming, which would mean your character has some equally impressive tracking feats that I'd like to see some scans for.

 

[Aridwolverine]

If Sekiro burns down the park then neither side could use stealth. Rendering Batman's stealth and stealth detection useless.

Because of this, if Batman is really insistent of using stealth, he would have to escape into the city as their is no more park anymore to hide in. However, if he does do this strategy, then Sekiro would escape into the other direction, preventing either party from finding each other

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

We would disregard any stealth based abilities by your logic Arid, at least between anyone upper tier 9 and above, because they could just destroy any foliage around. Rarely is the fighting area made of a material that couldn't be destroyed, after all.

Keeping and making distance of any sort apparently also loses it's purpose because "that'd just be showing your opponent your back and asking them for a free shot", which is silly?

 

[Schnee_One]

Not even mad. Just too busy to deal, worked a 16 hour shift. Wolf will/should lose about 50% of his matches if the people making them are to be trusted. Or incon. I disagree with the outcome but to get angry over a loss? Yer looking at the wrong internet filth to spite there, Garg.

Take a joke, jeez.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Wolf focusing on burning all of the foliage in Central Park while not even knowing where Batman is while Batman has ranged incap options?

I mean, if you wanna make things even easier for Batman, sure.

 

[Aridwolverine]

If the battlefield consists of mostly of foliage and one character has fire manipulation that could burn down said foliage then yes, stealth would be countered.

In a fight between two highly skilled fighters, every action is important. Any attack can be potentially lethal. Fighters use combat stances as it allows one to easily attack and defend with the least amount of risk. Even if you can sense attacks coming from behind you, it requires more time to physically turn your body around to deflect a blow than it is if you were already facing that direction. And since speed is equalized, they would have to focus and fight as perfectly as possible as either one is skilled enough to exploit any momentary opening.

Running away isn't a free action. Every action they make can be responded with an opposing one. If Batman lets his guard for just one second, then Sekiro finishes him off with a deathblow. And if Sekiro makes a misstep then Batman can potentially freeze him.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

If Sekiro burns down the park then neither side could use stealth. Rendering Batman's stealth and stealth detection useless.

1. 8-C AP isn't nearly enough to scorch an entire park that's multiple square kilometers in size, and even if it was, your character doesn't have the AoE to do so. So if he does decide to do that, he's going to be burning down trees for a pretty long time, more than enough for Bats to hit him with one of his incapacitating options.
2. You say he'll just burn down the entire park without showing any in-character instance of him doing anything similar in order to find someone in hiding, which leads me to the conclusion that "burn all the ******* trees down" isn't something he would do in-character.

So basically, what you've just described is a stupid idea, and probably not even something Wolf would do to begin with.

 

[Aridwolverine]

Sekiro is a shinobi, he doesn't care about honor. He'll rely on any esoteric means of winning. That was how he was raised.

 

[Schnee_One]

Cool.

Now how does he use the AoE he doesn't have, the AP he doesn't have etc to burn the forest down?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

You are still making no sense Arid. You might as well just destroy every single hiding spot if you have the AP by this logic, but characters don't do this like some sort of rule. And the ones that do tend to be caught off guard by said stealth in the first place by just focusing on uncovering them.

Not to mention that this is speed equal. Even in series where speed ain't equal, running away or making space is always an option. Wolf doesn't just "nothing personal kid"s Batman because of an opening while there's distance, and Batman isn't just shutting off all of his hyper senses while moving away and with his eyes possibly not on wolf.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

"Sekiro is a shinobi, he doesn't care about honor."

And?

Still doesn't mean he's going to spend his time burning what amounts to several acres of forest down just to look for one guy, especially if he hasn't done anything similar in canon.

And even if he does go for that, the entire strategy is suicidal.

 

[Aridwolverine]

He doesn't have to burn down the entire park down instantly in one move. All he has to do is create one flame and that flame would spread to other trees over time, growing and consuming more as it travels.

 

[Schnee_One]

What about the part where we stared "That actively makes it easier for batman?"....

 

[Aridwolverine]

You never stated "That actively makes it easier for batman?"

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Wolf focusing on burning all of the foliage in Central Park while not even knowing where Batman is while Batman has ranged incap options?
I mean, if you wanna make things even easier for Batman, sure.

 

[Aridwolverine]

Oh that. Speaking of ranged options, no one ever made a rebut against the Phantom Kunai