- 7,213
- 5,509
Intentionally or not you've been, because your evidence is comparison of both in destruction force.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
MASSIVE Tekken Downgrades
- Thread starter Continuum19
- Start date
- Status
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #242
1. It's much more reasonable to assume that Kuma became stronger than Paul over time rather than assume that Paul got significantly weaker.
Especially without any hard evidence to support the assertion that Paul got weaker.
2. Tekken 2 Mishima's don't scale to Tekken 6 Jack's.
Jack models have gotten stronger over time.
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #243
Concrete scaling is the way to go in my opinion.
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #244
Assuming that I've been talking about DC this entire time is silly.
- 7,213
- 5,509
It is, but it is not the only one way. And well, Panda/Kuma scaling is pretty much concrete cause if they sparred they've fought. Heihachi isn't dumb to make bears who are not even as nearly as strong as other combatants to make them bodyguards.
Considering that you're trying to say that Panda doesn't scales to feat because Jack-6 did it and Panda didn't, yeah you pretty much have been, no offence.
- 12,587
- 12,571
Just stop...your way of tiering is horrible af, those two arent mid tiers
Based on what we assume Jack 6 is above bears? A sparring partner has relevance, means the character is worth something, lwt alone by the one who trains them
Panda is also a bodyguard to Xiaoyu, same character that beat Nina in the anime and fought Alisa evenly in the movie, Alisa beat a Jack 6, if Panda was as weak as you imply, she wouldnt be for her a bodyguard to begin with, let alone the other points ollegator and me brought up
- 7,213
- 5,509
Jacks are often portrayed as robots who can pretty much beaten by a lot of characters without a big problem anyway in a later chapters.
Like, I won't be surprised at all if in Tekken 8 character will be fodderizing Jack-7s.
- 12,587
- 12,571
By this logic no character in dragon ball super besides Beerus and Goku scale to them just cuz they got no feats like their uni punching one, shitty logic as always
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #249
1. The bears being comparable to other combatants doesn't mean they scale to Heihachi though.
2. I didn't say that.
I said that Jack-6 had superior feats to the bears.
- 7,213
- 5,509
Why would Heihachi need a protection from these bears? If those other combatants weren't a trouble then Heihachi just would've one shot them anyway and if Bears were worthless than he doesn't needs any use in them. The reasoning here is flawed and has no basics.
You just did at this very moment.
- 12,587
- 12,571
We literally see Paul end up on streets and not even train anymore till he got in the 4th tournament to prove himself, only to lose to his current rival, let alone even after he trains again, tekken 6 still states he was too tired to continue from their fight, Prime Paul didnt even acknowledge bears as a big deal, its common knowledge Prime Paul > Current Paul
Yes they do, by the fact Young Heihachi is displayed to be in the league with those like Feng, which Paul faces off against
And are still counted as fodder to high tiers and top tiers (mishimas), Jack never were ever above Mishimas
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #252
1. They are definitely mid tiers.
2. Sparring partners aren't concrete enough evidence to justify Tier 6 scaling.
The Tekken anime isn't canon to the games so any scaling in them is irrelevant.
You should know that bro.
Alisa didn't beat that Jack-6 model.
She temporarily knocked Jack-6 down and then it got back up to then get beaten by Lars in 1 punch.
3. Power-scaling is a case by case thing.
Plenty of characters have fought on par with a serious SSB Goku so they should scale just fine.
Last edited:
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #253
1. By this logic Heihachi needs protection from every single combatant in every single Tekken tournament since Tekken 2.
Which is absurd.
2. Saying that Jack-6 has better feats isn't the same thing as saying that Panda doesn't scale to Jack-6 because he performed a better feat.
I'm simply using the fact that Jack-6 has better feats to support the idea that he scales above the bears.
- 7,213
- 5,509
Who they? Nina? Same Nina who directly fought Heihachi, keep in mind. Alisa? Same Alisa that destroys Jacks in story. Xiaoyu? Same girl who beated both Alisa and Nina.
Was confirmed as canon by its creator.
And knocking down isn't something that is not direct? Like she wouldn't have done damage at all if she wasn't as strong as Jack-6.
And he had/s. Kuma 1 and Mishima Zaibatsu army in T1-2. As well as Ganryu in Tekken 3 and again, same army.
Jack-6 has a better feat not better feats. And again, to do so you're comparing each's destructive capacity.
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #255
1. When was it stated that Paul stopped training?
2. No they don't.
Young Heihachi fighting Feng Wei makes no sense timeline wise and even if he did Feng Wei is mid tier at best.
3. Tekken 2 characters don't scale to Tekken 6 characters.
That's a time gap of over 20 years.
It's unreasonable to scale them.
- 12,587
- 12,571
You get on my nerves again with your ******* surface level knowledge
Harada and Murray say in an interview stuff original by anime they wanna use as canon setting, let alone it tells most of the game story in the form of the anime, it is canon, but obviously why would you know such things, when you ARENT even knowledgable on the series besides surface level info
No they arent, mid tiers like Alisa or human/demon Jinpachi, we are explicitely told compared to Mishimas they are match to their power, high tiers either scale to a degree to Mishimas by being told or shown as such, let alone, that same Jinpachi in tekken 5 is as well told as being no match to old Heihachi, meanwhile against Young Heihachi he does actually something to him by comparison
Glad you agree, as you should be actually
You should you clearly have no idea wtf you talking, roundtable for fighting devs michael murray says the anime its kind of a prequel to tekken 3 and were involved in it, when they shown the 1st trailer in that stream
Harada and Murray say in an interview stuff original by anime they wanna use as canon setting, let alone it tells most of the game story in the form of the anime, it is canon, but obviously why would you know such things, when you ARENT even knowledgable on the series besides surface level info
You have eye problems too, she kicks him, engages him in up close and kills it moments after, with another Jack 6 coming to get grabbed by Lars and do his back throw move
No dude, cuz by your logic we cant scale anyone besides Beerus to him, they have no uni feats like them, even tho they scale, same goes to tekken by this logic of yours, know the scaling then talk
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #257
1. Heihachi easily defeated Nina.
Nina doesn't scale to him.
Alisa never defeated Jack-6.
2. Where did Harada directly state that Tekken Bloodline is canon?
3. No.
Knocking down isn't sufficient for scaling.
4. I'm not following you?
5. Nope.
He has better feats.
Jack-6 has a DC and speed feat in his ending.
Jack-6 having better feats is being used to support the idea that he scales above the bears.
- 7,213
- 5,509
It is shown that he abandoned his dojo, so he and Law at that point are more busy with debts rather than training people.
The fact that Feng fights Young Heihachi alone is a proof that Feng isn't a mid tier at this point. And TT2 is confirmed as canon in T7
Thing is not just about 20 year gap, thing is also about the fact that Jacks are often narratively fodders in later chapters. If Jack 6 was considered as strong in Tekken 6, he turns into a fodder in Tekken 7, if Jack 4 was strong in T4 events they again, turn into a fodders in Tekken 5. Jacks are pretty much fodders to characters at later points of the game, that thing is consistent on a narrative level.
- 7,213
- 5,509
Again, if it was easy he would've done it in one hit, and he didn't
So she does.
She did
Literally in a video I showed as well as what Dark said
Try to knock down a guy who's over thousands of times stronger than you I dare you.
What's so hard here? Heihachi in plot had and has defense in Tekken story. You can't just approach and fight him.
You're not even trying to hide that you do in fact comparing their DC at that point.
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #260
1. I can't quite decipher what you're saying here.
2. I misspoke.
3. Care to provide a link?
4.. That's not what happened.
There was only 1 Jack-6 in that room.
She didn't kill it.
Jack-6 got back up after Alisa's assault and then it got 1 shot by Lars.
6. Your analysis of my logic is flawed.
Going toe to toe with a serious SSB Goku is more than enough to justify Tier 3 scaling.
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #261
1. Heihachi wasn't trying to hurt Nina.
He needed her as an assistant.
Nina doesn't scale to Heihachi.
Alisa didn't beat Jack-6.
2. Harada didn't directly state that Tekken Bloodline is canon in the video you linked.
3. I don't have super strength.
4. I'm only talking about DC in so far as to support the idea that Jack-6 is above the bears.
- 7,213
- 5,509
Funny that you're trying to dismiss that one feat in a scene while also ignoring that Alisa also casually beats up Jacks during story mode outside of cutscenes.
- 12,587
- 12,571
Show where in your headcanon skull you got we are said he trains anywhere there, after tekken 3 Paul insisted he was the champion last time, since Jin beat Ogre last form of which he was unaware of, people were getting sick of him and dojo runs out of business, we see him literally end on streets like a homeless person in the story of the character, next tournament is announced and he joins like that to prove it, tell me from where is implied he trained anymore, loses to Kuma, then later when we are specifically told he trains he still had it rough with Kuma he had to give up
Tag 2 is fair use, if your only problem is you not liking it, lore and feats dont care of your feelings
And funny how you ignore the other things tjat further shows where Young Heihachi stands up and those comparable, they aint mid tiers normie
Already debunked previously a couple times, get better arguments besides your surface level info
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #264
1. It's stated that Paul's dojo went out of business due to lack of people.
Not that he abandoned it.
Nothing in your video suggests that Paul stopped training.
2. Feng fighting Young Heihachi doesn't make Feng a high tier.
3. Jack's aren't considered fodders to every single character in the games.
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #265
At what other point in the scenario campaign does Alisa fight Jack-6's?
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #266
1. You stated that Paul stopped training so the burden of proof is on you to support that claim.
2. Tag 2 has timeline inconsistencies.
It's only partially canon.
3. They are mid tiers.
4. Nothing was debunked.
- 12,587
- 12,571
Aka you dont know the verse therefore your right to debate on the scaling where each is tiered doesnt exist, multiple people here and outside the thread said i know this series better then anyone, your opinion with "no" responses means 0
The unconsciousness knows the truth deep inside unlike you normally
I will go get them soon
You are legit blind then
No, its exactly how it goes by your
logic, scaling proves the characters get the rating, yet you deny it just cuz "has shown a better feat" i cant even begin to describe how pathetically laughable this is, when bears have scaling to show that they scale above, yet you go against it by your surface level info, a character having a better feat then someone means nothing unless the power scaling further suggests they dont scale
- 7,213
- 5,509
He previously had an other assistant back in anime. He's from a company that has enough money to do WW3, it's no big deal to hire an other assistant (or assassin or maybe even make one cause Mishima Zaibatsu also can and did that pretty frequently). And if he does indeed needs Nina then Nina has a value, Nina is far more stronger than normal people for his defense.
Like this level happens seconds after that cutscene how do you miss that?
And we need direct statement? Anime doesn't contradicts and for a most parts only supports Tekken lore, why it won't be canon when it's heavily implied to be?
And by your implication nor does Alisa. But she does have enough to take Jack down
Aka, literally comparing them in DC.
He lost basically everything, including dojo where he was training. It'll take a lot of assumptions that Paul with no motivation to go on left would actually train.
Oh so Heihachi would make himseда young to make himself weaker? Don't see logic here.
Depends. In later parts earlier models are.
Such as...? Don't stop there.
- 12,587
- 12,571
At this point i will just request you to get banned from tekken talks, i have no patience with a normie that is hard headed
Imagine even admitting you dont know as much asthe other yet still have audacity to debate
Imagine even admitting you dont know as much asthe other yet still have audacity to debate
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #270
1. Meh.Aka you dont know the verse therefore your right to debate on the scaling where each is tiered doesnt exist, multiple people here and outside the thread said i know this series better then anyone, your opinion with "no" responses means 0
The unconsciousness knows the truth deep inside unlike you normally
I will go get them soon
You are legit blind then
No, its exactly how it goes by your
2. Heh.
3. Good to know.
4. I'm definitely not blind.
5. I'm not basing my scaling entirely on feats.
- 7,213
- 5,509
Well you say that and comparing Jacks to Bears in terms of DC.
Seems like you do, no offence.
- 12,587
- 12,571
No its not and you were already shown he has no training in tekken 4, tekken 5 literally tells us he actually trains or is shown visually like with tekken 1, why we assume he did when the character gone through rough times with no motivation, the tournament is what got him fired up again
At this point, shut up, simply shut up
No they arent, either you bring evidence as to why or zip it
Here goes the denial attitude again
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #273
1. Heihachi isn't going to be able to find an assistant that knows the ins and outs of the Mishima Zaibatsu on short notice.
He has no reason to injure Nina.
2. Can you tell me the timestamp?
3. It's best to get a direct statement or reference of Tekken Bloodline's canonical nature rather than assume it's canon.
4. You need some form of concrete proof to prove that Paul stopped training.
5. That's not true.
6. For example, Jinpachi is alive in Tag 2 even though he disintegrated in Tekken 5.
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #274
1. No evidence that Paul stopped training.
2. No argument.
3. You're the only person in denial here.
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #275
Like I said earlier I'm talking about DC to support the scaling.
- 12,587
- 12,571
Nina wasnt taken by knowing things, but by her capabilitaties as a fighter and skills, Heihachi has no need for people that arent capable of doing their job
Word of god has it stated as canonical, as well as two other details that explains stuff from the games, dont go throw out whats canon and not out of your ass
- 2:04:44
- 4:55
What i talked about earlier
You are denying it and keep being stubborn
Tag 2 has no story therefore no such thing as Jinpachi being alive goes against the canon and what ifs are fair game, which was already talked about way back
- 7,213
- 5,509
He has, he's taking Mishima Zaibatsu back and for that he needs to beat the shit out of its current leader who technically was Nina while Jin was in desert.
I literally time stamped the video
Idek what are you asking here.
You need some form of concrete proof to prove that Paul trained. Evidence tells he did not. Show not assume.
It is true. You're lying if you're trying to say it's not.
And that's only like, 1 contradiction and even then. Like Dark said earlier what ifs is a fair game for Tekken.
Or in other words comparing them in DC, there's nothing else you doing.
- 12,587
- 12,571
Evidence was given you are just a hard headed normie
You have no argument and had none in this whole thread, left and right you get debunked and proven unfit to run your mouth in the verse
Uno card reply how original, you are simply a horrible debater and in denial at it too, get my knowledge then we talking, you have 0 rights to argue the verse when you dont know at least enough to argue back properly, let alone vs debating terms and knowledge to begin with
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #279
1. Heihachi definitely needed Nina for more than just her fighting ability.
2. Huh.
I guess Tekken Bloodline is canon.
I didn't know that until now.
3. I'm not being stubborn.
I just need hard evidence that Paul stopped training.
4. Tag 2 definitely has a story.
Unless you're trying to say that any fighting game without a story mode also doesn't have a story.
- 858
- 106
- Thread starter
- #280
1. I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
2. The video doesn't work on my phone.
3. You still haven't provided any solid evidence that Paul stopped training.
4. It's definitely true.
5. It's a massive contradiction that breaks the story.
- Status
Similar threads
