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MASSIVE tatsumaki upgrade

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Jonathanlighter

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Tatsumaki upgrade 3
the following images show tatsumaki (while extremely weakened) restraining monster garou to the point where he could not move. shes able to restrain him for a good 30 sec or so, as amai mask and child emperor have enough time to walk around and start a conversation, all while garou is restrained. keep in mind that garou is at least high 6-A and tatsumaki (while extremely weakened) was keeping him from moving. he was only able to escape after he adapts to her power (cause he has reactive evolution)
Tatsumaki upgrade 4
Tatsumaki upgrade 2
Tatsumaki upgrade
 
Uhm... ? I'll see what others think, but i have no problems with it , considering how she was never shown at her maximum ( pretty much the Psychic Saitama of the verse ) it isn't unlikely. She even flatout said that if her brain wasn't injured, she would defeat him with no effort. The only problem is if they will consider it an outlier.. But an outlier only exists if there was a clear limit to her psychic powers. She hasn't, and the only one she hasn't been able to effect is Saitama ( Which obviously doesn't make it an outlier, due to the difference in power between Garou & Saitama ) . BUt, like i previously mentioned, i would like to see other people's opinions.
 
I think this was previously discussed and labeled an outlier. I could be wrong, the thread was from like December.
 
How in the world is it an outlier ? From my memory , the only one who was completely unaffected by her powers was Saitama, and if you know how much stronger Saitama is then Garou , it kinda makes sense how he was unaffected, yet Garou was . And she has never been shown fighting the big bads of the verse before until now, and is always completely supressed with her powers .
 
I wasnt the one who rejected it but from what I can remember it had something to do with Black Sperm.
 
This was already discussed numerous times. One the Monster Garou form here isn't considered as the one who scales to Boros. Monster Garou who reached his peak when fighting Saitama is.

Second this would be an outlier considering the fact that Tornado previously couldn't even defeat Kuroi Seishi and took damage from Fuhrer Ugly. Yet at a state in which she should be weaker since then, she's now restraining people vastly superior to those guys.

This is the same self-contradictory powerscaling as Erza getting one shot by casual Irene, then one shotting Irene's strongest attack while heavily weakened. Goku and Vegeta in their weakened base forms surviving attacks from a guy who in his weaker form stomped their SSB states. Or Mario taking harm from Bowser, then beating him when he's amped drastically.

If we called those instances an outlier/PIS, it'd only be fair to do the same here.
 
Full Power Tatsumaki doesn't have an established limit. But this weakened state people are trying to upgrade does. And even if we considered this to be a feat that scales to Boros, it horribly contradicts that limit.
 
In fact this is the most powerful form of Garou, in which he balanced strength, speed and technique.

The giant form of Garou was considered by Saitama as weaker since he focused on brute force but lost speed and left the technique aside.

This form even was the one that fought with Golden Sperm for some moments.

And the times when Tatsumaki was injured was because she had the barriers lowered since without the barriers she is almost a normal little girl. In truth to have survived without exploding in several pieces with the barriers lowered is a great feat for her.
 
ONE directly states that Garou fights on par with Boros when he becomes "the perfect monster."

He has an entire dialouge during his fight with Saitama that he's not good enough. That he needs to become an "unfair being" and reach "absolute evil" by evolving further into his monster forms. Then right after talking about how much greater his final form is. And thanking Saitama for helping him achieve the monster form he had always wanted.

From these hints, it is reasonable to indicate that Garou was not "the perfect monster" at the time of of this fight. Also, how can both forms of Garou that greatly differ in power be comparable to Boros at the exact same time?

It's like if WoG said "Before Bob was far stronger, but once Cell became the perfect life form, he is on par with him."

Base Cell has practically a whole chapter dedicated about how he's not good enough. How every facet of him as a life form is inadequate and he'll have to undergo a new evolution to reach his ultimate goal. He then transforms and right after it's stated he's reached "absolute perfection" and that this new form was "the being he was always yearning for."

Then we claim that it's the much weaker base form is "the perfect life form." And that Bob would've somehow fought on par with Cell despite him having a form far greater than one that could already match Bob.

The fact that Tornado lost the fight to Kuroi Seishi, her attacks could not incapacitate him, and she only got weaker since then makes her fighting someone orders of magnitude stronger PIS.
 
Perfect form = more powerfull


"Garou vs Boros, who would win, you ask? Before (pre-monster Garou), it was quite obvious Boros was ways above him. But now that Garou has basically become the perfect monster, it is hard to tell who would win, it would've been one hell of a battle. I do believe that Garou is stronger in close combat, where he would simply dodge all punches and kicks"

So I still correct, Garou cabt be a problem if he is slow and didnt can use his martial arts.

The perfection of Garou's Monster form is that.
 
Everything from the Garou's dialogue suggests that this first form of Monster Garou is not "the perfect monster."

If he was, then why would Garou spend an entire chapter talking about how this first form is inadequate in every aspect? How he needs to become an "unfair being" and reach "absolute evil" by evolving further into his monster forms. How he thanks Saitama for forcing him to evolve into "the being he was always yearning for" and that he's reached "absolute perfection" (AKA, "the perfect monster")

It's made rather clear that this form of Garou is not "the perfect monster." Far from it. And that his "absolute perfection" "being he was always yearning for" is.
 
"This was already discussed numerous times. One the Monster Garou form here isn't considered as the one who scales to Boros. Monster Garou who reached his peak when fighting Saitama is."

you're clearly misunderstanding ryu. garou has a total of four monster forms. the second one is his perfect form that ONE was talking about. this is his most powerful and best form. not this one. saitama tells garou that he is weaker after he transforms into this .

his second form is his strongest and best form (the perfect form) because it has a perfect balance of speed, power, and martial arts. whereas his later forms are literally just him trying to gain more power out of desperation of trying to beat saitama. instead he ends up as a giant monstrosity that cant even utilize his martial arts anymore. theres nothing perfect about that. the cell example is terrible. cell's perfect form is an actual SPECIFIC form that he was trying to achieve, through a certain method. whereas garou's transformation is just his reactive evolution going out of control. its not even a form, its just him evolving rapidly, but failing. if saitama didnt stop him, he would have kept transforming more and more. theres no "set" form for garou that is perfect. but from what we've seen, garou is at his best in his second form, aka his perfect form.

you're saying that this is his perfect form with ZERO evidence, just all speculation. whereas for me, i have evidence. saitama LITERALLY outright says that garou became weaker. why the hell would a perfect form be weaker? garou was just drunk on power and very desperate to defeat saitama, so he just kept evolving. in fact, its later proven that garou didnt even want to become a monster in the first place. lastly, ONE never said that boros and garou are perfectly even. he said that it would be one hell of a battle. guess what? saitama vs boros was "one hell of a battle", even though saitama is FAR stronger than boros. ONE outright says that garou would have an advantage in close combat, meaning that basically, garou is slightly stronger.

"Second this would be an outlier considering the fact that Tornado previously couldn't even defeat Kuroi Seishi and took damage from Fuhrer Ugly. Yet at a state in which she should be weaker since then, she's now restraining people vastly superior to those guys."

tatsumaki is VERY CLEARLY a glass cannon. just like her sister. the hero association rates her physical strength as around the same as fubuki's, who's physical strength is LESS than even a c class hero. and it ISNT an outlier. tatsumaki tried to break golden sperms neck, she failed miserably. then she tried to restrain garou for a couple of seconds . and she succeeded? how? because ripping someones head off is A LOT harder than just stopping someone from moving for a couple of seconds. furthermore, tatsumaki was rage boosted cause she thought her sister was killed, therefore making her a lot stronger. there is NO inconsistency here.
 
@ryu

garou was drunk on power. he was so desperate to defeat saitama, that he evolved into a grotesque monster form that was actually inferior.

your logic makes ZERO SENSE. you're saying that garous second form isnt perfect cause it wasnt adequate enough to defeat saitama, yet his third and final form was ALSO inadequate to defeat saitama. in fact, it was EVEN MORE inadequate. saitama literally says HES WEAKER. why do you keep ignoring this? he achieves his perfect form, but is weaker? what?

you're making no sense. garou says he reached "perfection" in this form, and that this was the form that he was yearning for. THEN RIGHT AFTER THAT HE TRANSFORMS AGAIN??? WHAT?? if his third form was his perfect form and the one he was yearning for, why the hell did he transform again? to become even more perfect? that makes no sense ryu.

tatsumaki should be "possibly high 6-A" at the very least
 
Garou in this form explicitly states that everything he has is inadequate.

That he has to obtain greater power than what he has transform into a new being and after that he finally grown into the being he had never stopped yearning for.

Why would this first form that Garou keeps describing as being inferior to power towards his new form be the "perfect monster"? Yet not this new, far more powerful form that he states to be "the being he never stopped yearning for"?

Saitama does not call this form weaker. He calls that final giant form weaker. Right after he Serious Punched it at that. Of course that would be weaker. But that doesn't mean the form before that one, which didn't get the shit beaten out of it, would be weaker than his first form

Even if we're to say Tatsumaki is a glass cannon, the fact that her psychic power wasn't enough to defeat Kuroi Seishi makes her psychic power (which is now even weaker than before) draining someone on Boros level a massive outlier/PIS.

Also I am getting kind of tired of me and other staff constantly telling you to calm your tone and stop getting aggresive and caps lock people out. You've gotten far more warnings about this than any other user I know, besides perhaps notorious people like Davy and Mik.
 
you didnt read my full comment did you?

okay, lets get started.

garou initially believes that his second form is inadequate in all aspects. i agree with you on that. then he proceeds to transform into another form. then he says that he became the being he never stopped yearning for. which is actually bullshit because later on its confirmed that garou just wanted to be a hero, and did the monster thing as a substitute.

anyways, after transforming into his third form, he NEVER says that he reached perfection or anything like that. all he says is that he became what he wanted. then he attacks saitama, and gets punched in the stomach. he is surprised that even in this form, hes no match for saitama. what does this mean... it means that he genuinely believed that he gained the power to defeat saitama after evolving again, yet after hes punched, he realizes that hes STILL INADEQUATE, therefore NOTHING CHANGED. hes still inadequate and no match for saitama. he initially believed that he had the power to beat saitama, then was surprised to realize he was still no match, therefore he mistook his new form to be perfect or whatever, but he was still wrong. his third form isnt perfect. you seriously think ONE was referring to a form that was shown for like 5 sec? yeah no.

in other words: he only "i've finally grown into the being i never stopped yearning for" is because he genuinely thought he became strong enough to beat saitama, that he became an unfair being. yet after hes punched. BOOM. reality check, he realizes hes still inadequate. thats why he transforms again. if he grew into the being he never stopped yearning for, why would he transform again?
 
and like i said earlier, breaking someones neck is A LOT harder to do that just stop someone from moving .it DID have an effect on golden sperm btw, as he showed pain in his face. and tatsumaki was rage boosted against garou, because she thought her sister died. thats why she did slightly better against him
 
Of course all of Garou's forms are inadequate against Saitama.

However the fact is that this second form of Garou is clearly much more powerful than his first form. Garou describes it as the power/being he never stopped yearning for. There is good reason to believe this is the perfect form.

The only form that is described as being weaker than before is his final one right after it was heavily weakened.

I don't think you understand these gaps in power. Tornado could've effortlessly one shot Kuroi Seishi had she been powerful enough to harm Boros. The fact that she did not defeat Kuroi would make the later fight PIS.

Also like I said please calm your tone. It's getting bothersome for you to always rage in every thread that people don't agree with you on.
 
okay, sorry.

i never said tatsumaki has the power to harm boros or garou. i simply said that tatsumaki was able to restrain garou for a couple secs. thats not "harming". yet its still absolutely worthy of an upgrade.

tornado (while weakened) was able to restrain garou, but nothing else. in her full power, we can assume she might be able to slightly harm garou or boros. SLIGHTLY. and guess what? shes able to defeat golden sperm in full power. so this absolutely makes sense. you said that if tatsumaki could harm boros or garou, she should be able to defeat golden sperm right? well she can. so there ya go.

and boros and garou are on the higher end of high 6-A. high 6-A has a HUGE gap between low end and high end. therefore tatsumaki and (possibly golden sperm) could still be high 6-A and be WAY weaker than boros and garou
 
let me say this again:

the only reason why garou said "i've grown into the being i never stopped yearning for" is because at the time, he genuinely believed he could beat saitama. after he gets rekt by saitama again, he realizes that hes STILL inadequate. and he realizes that this is NOT the form he was yearning for. so he transforms again. its as simple as that. theres nothing special or perfect about this form . he just THOUGHT he could defeat the hero, just like every single anime villain ever who undererstimates their opponents strength. thats what happened, he underestimated saitamas strength, then got rekt. he would've just kept transforming over and over if saitama didnt stop him. becoming "weaker" and weaker. theres no way ONE was referring to a form that only appeared for like 5 sec
 
Regardless of Full Power Tatsumaki, this would still be an outlier.

>Tatsumaki (within this weakened state of power) is not able to defeat, kill or seriously harm Kuroi Seishi.

>Tatsumaki (while still in this weakened state of power, likely even weaker now) manages to restrain Garou, who is orders of magnitude beyond Kuroi Seishi.

Weakened Tatsumaki performs a feat that vastly surpasses her previously established limits. That is an outlier/PIS.
 
I'm not saying that Garou was right about being able to defeat Saitama. However from the dialogue that he spends an entire chapter on, it's clear that this form is much weaker than the new one that he had. And that it was far closer to this "perfect monster" than the other one was. The amount of screentime this form had isn't too relevant to that.
 
tatsumaki was rage boosted against garou. and breaking someones neck is A LOT harder to do than simply restraining someone.

think of it like this:

tatsumaki (severely weakened and not rage boosted)<golden sperm<<<<<<(tatsumaki rage boosted)<<garou
 
There's nothing really suggesting merely getting angry increased her power by that much. Especially when she stated that she was using all her remaining power, meaning that she was even weaker than previously.

Also yeah snapping a neck may be harder than restraining someone. But when the difference in power is so vast like Kuroi Seishi and Boros would be, this is not a valid argument.

Tornado could not snap Kuroi's neck. Could not kill him. Could not defeat him. And also did not do any real serious harm to him. If she could not do any of these things to him, there is no way she would be able to do this against Garou.
 
and we dont know the full extent of damage tatsumaki was capable of inflicting on golden sperm. she ALMOST breaks his neck, then right after that, garou interupts, so its entirely possible that tatsumaki could have done more
 
Because Saitama had weakened that form again. But it doesn't really matter since that form is stated to be weaker than his previous ones. Not that monster.

All she really does is push Kuroi's neck to the side, making him grunt. To which right after he breaks the grip he's perfectly fine and doesn't have any pain or discomfort afterwards. That's not any sort of significant damage either. If that's the best she could do to him, there's no way she can do anything to Boros or Garou.
 
we dont know the power difference between boros and golden sperm btw. and we dont know exactly how garou defeated golden sperm. GS was able to hold his own for some time. a high 6-C holding his own against a high 6-A for even a couple seconds is utterly impossible.
 
Ryukama said:
Because Saitama had weakened that form again. But it doesn't really matter since that form is stated to be weaker than his previous ones. Not that monster.
All she really does is push Kuroi's neck to the side, making him grunt. To which right after he breaks the grip he's perfectly fine and doesn't have any pain or discomfort afterwards. That's not any sort of significant damage either. If that's the best she could do to him, there's no way she can do anything to Boros or Garou.
Click to expand...
like i said, we dont know if that was the best she could do. she wasnt rage boosted at that point, and she did that LITERALLY right after she got a beating from him. tatsumaki was able to restrain garou much later, giving her some time to recover
 
"we dont know the power difference between boros and golden sperm btw."

Yes we do. The difference between High 6-C and High 6-A to 5-B is insanely massive.

"a high 6-C holding his own against a high 6-A for even a couple seconds is utterly impossible."

You were the one saying it's okay for Tornado to not be able to break a High 6-C's neck yet restrain a High 6-A, since breaking necks is harder than restraining.

Human Garou before he even transformed into any of his monster states was beating the crap out of Kuroi. Then him and Human Garou are lunging towards each other. And the second we see the monster form for the first time Kuroi is on the ground dead. It's fair to say that Kuroi was only fighting human form then got fodderized by Monster Garou.

"like i said, we dont know if that was the best she could do. she wasnt rage boosted at that point, and she did that LITERALLY right after she got a beating from him. tatsumaki was able to restrain garou much later, giving her some time to recover"

Again, just because Tornado was pissed at that time doesn't mean her power got suddenly increased orders of magnitude. And the fact that she did that "LITERALLY" right after getting a beating from him, then saying that she's using all her remaining power implies that she was weaker since then.
 
like i said before, theres too little evidence to prove that this is an outlier. its not 100% clear how much damage tatsumaki could have inflicted onto GS if garou didnt show up
 
The only form of damage Tatsumaki can do to Kuroi Seishi is push his neck to the side a bit and make him grunt. Only for him to be perfectly fine right after breaking the restraining grip. This is barely any significant damage at all.

If that was all that she could do to him, then her harming someone vastly superior like Garou is an outlier.
 
tatsumaki being rage boosted is a large factor here.

right after tatsumaki successfully restrains garou, zombiema says "tatsumaki's serious, despite her injuires", meaning that she was holding back the entire time.

actually its confirmed here that tatsumaki was holding back the entire time. she did this so the damage wouldnt get worse, but once she realizes fubukis dead, she doesnt care anymore and goes full power + rage boosted. therefore she was barely able to stop garou for a while.
 
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