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None of it follows the standards for 1-B afaik
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Massive Sonic the Hedgehog Cosmology Upgrade (High 1-B)
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I know, but it does follow the standards of a countless 2-B (likely 2-A) cosmology. This post along with ShakeResounding's prove that Sonic cosmology is way bigger than 2-C, and if Archie is a parralel universe to the games (which I haven't seen any good debunk against so far), that could even increase the cosmology size to low 1-C! I know it sounds insane, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't even bother to consider it and give proper counter-arguments.
ShakeResounding
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Quick thing, why does Game void have type 2 concept hax?
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Goes BACK to 2-B? You mean it was accepted at one point?
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yea im pretty sure solaris was 2-B at one point
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That honestly makes perfect sense. Now I just wonder why it was downgraded to begin with. We know that each world exists seperately and that they're 4D in nature, so it's just a slightly less blatant version of Mario's dream depot. Sonic cosmology is at least countless 2-B either way, but Maginary world make it exponentially bigger. Idk why we should wait for Maginary world to be accepted before submitting the many-worlds project, but it's your choice.
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The OP suggests that the games AND the comics are in the same multiverse. This is supported my many WoG statements but I have no idea how many of them can be taken as fact. Given how strongly implied the Boom contnuity is to litterally be a parrallel universe to the main timeline, and how the comic book and the cartoon adaptations of it take place in the same universe as the Boom games, that would, by extension, connect the game verse to the Archie comics, since the Boom comics canonically had a crossed-over with them while once again being stated to have the same characters as in the games. The connections make sense on paper... But wouldn't that mean that the game verse is canonically related to Image comics?? That's where it really becomes of mind-****. Where does the canon cross-over chain end at this point? We could probably connect the Sonic verse to Marvel and DC if we keep going like this. The most logical thing to do in my opinion is to leave any verse that isn't Sonic-related out of the cosmology, making it 2-A if we only account for the post-genesis Archie verse, or low 1-C if we include pre-genesis wave. Most people would still have issues with it, which is understandable given how mind-blowing, unorthodox and sudden this is. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Sonic Prime and the official comprehensive encyclopedia on Sonic game lore (written by Ian Flynn with permission from Sega) coming out next year shed light on this. Either way, I'm hyped for them.
My_area
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Maginary world is irrelevant for the thread by the way but I heavily disagree with them being 2-B due to no evidence for dreams being universe sized rather than portion of a reality.However for that,seperate thread can be made(again sigh) listing arguments as to why Maginary world is 2-B instead of it being expanded here in before its size starts being debated here.
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Guardian_Doge
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Now that this thread is in fun and games, we can't really do any serious talk about without making a new thread in Content Revision.
Guardian_Doge
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Thanks for the missed point though. What I'm saying is the proposition of having countless into 2-B for sonic cosmology would have to be discussed in Content revision to be accepted.
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Ok say sike right now
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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Bloody ************! It took me an hour and a half to read this ****!
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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Well... At least the more certain special emphasis on fun & games I do doesn't take that long to get through.
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Why did you bother if it annoys you that much?
Guardian_Doge
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Probably just exaggeration.
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it doesn't annoy me. I was just suprised how long i was on my phone reading this.
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Well if that aien't relatable as all hell...
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I can relate to this
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noiceI can relate to this
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It seems like no one is taking this comment seriously and that understandable but the reason why this Argument fails is due to the fact that Ian Confirms that the Canons Are separate. The Parrallel Universe analogy is how he interprets them separately. If you actually watch the full video, he makes it very Clear when he refers to them as Parallel, There not the Same cosmology but Separate Canons.
Ian Flynn confirmed that Archie, Game and Boom Sonic are there own things, Separate from one another. His interpretation of “Parallel Universe” is that they are Separated entirely and Not connected to One another in Anyway.
11:23
He’s even uses a Pie analogy to explain this and Said the Boom Existence is exclusive to itself and all of these were done in the same Podcast channel. Also Ian Flynn debunked the idea of chō jigen in an interview.
1:53:14
A large majority of the argument is using half the statements made by Aaron and Ian. Also, Everything being Canon is an obvious joke. Aaron webber after making that Statement was Asked about if Sonic 06 was Canon, Here's what he said.
This very video that your using, Ian Flynn clearly explained that "Parrallel Universes" Does not mean they share cosmology but are Separate Stories/Canon
9:20 Ian Flynn outright states that different forms of Media, Should be treated as Parrallel Universe's in the context that there Canons are not connected as well as there Cosmology being separate and thats the issue with most of the thread evidence. Leaving out the bits where they deny the Claims of the medias connecting or Misinterpreting a authors words.
The Video where Ian Flynn Explains the Multiverse of Sonic Boom, He once again denies the Connection of the series to the games and Comics.
11:11-11:30
Ian clearly States that Sonic Boom's Multiverse is exclusive to itself and does not cross Canon with Archie and Game sonic.
This video, Aaaron is Clearly Joking because
1. Tails Can in fact die otherwise Tails vs Luigi debates won't go anywhere because lugi wins by doing nothing.
2. Everything isn't canon. https://imgur.com/a/L6n9GoR by Aaron words, Sonic 06 is non-canon.
https://youtu.be/axAvQSg1mM0
^But there’s more on just that statement “The announcement described Sonic Boom as taking place in a parallel universe to the existing Sonic the Hedgehog franchise, complete with its own cartoon series, children's toys, and two new video games for the Nintendo Wii U and 3DS, respectively. Sega was also quick to point out that Sonic Boom is not a replacement for the existing Sonic. Instead, think of it as a complement in the same way the Ultimate Marvel series complements Marvel comics, or Mega Man Legends complements Mega Man.” And “When Sega approached Big Red Button three years ago with Sonic Boom, the young team leapt at the opportunity. According to Rafei, Big Red Button was founded specifically to create character-focused action games, and Sonic Boom was exactly the sort of high-profile project his team needed to prove itself. The idea to make it a parallel universe with a unique style was decided early on; however, the decision on how this new style would look did not come as easily. "We went pretty wide with the designs at first, and by going too wide, we lost some of the spirit of the character and had to rein it in," said Rafei. "Sonic Team and Sega were very open-minded about our approach, and accepting of a lot of things we were doing.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ga...ins-sonic-and-knuckles-new-look/1100-6418328/ for the Boom Parallel Universe Quote. Meaning Boom is A Parallel Universe to Sega-Verse in the Same way Ultimates Marvel is To 616 and All-New Marvel
As i've already stated the use of the word "Parallel Universe" refers to separated Canon and Cosmology. This is Ian Flynn's Own statement, They do not share that Same Existence or Crossover.
In Archie The Boom Universe and Sega/Capcom Verses is Included in The Archie Multiverses in Worlds Unite! “Archie Comics crossover event set to include characters from STREET FIGHTER, MONSTER HUNTER, SKIES OF ARCADIA, and other popular video game franchises by SEGA and CAPCOM. Archie Comics is proud to announce that “Worlds Unite,” the sequel to 2013’s smash-hit “Worlds Collide” crossover storyline featuring Sonic the Hedgehog & Mega Man, will expand to include popular video game franchises from SEGA and CAPCOM, including “Street Fighter,” “Monster Hunter,” and more. Expanding beyond the focus on the worlds of Sonic the Hedgehog and Mega Man, “Worlds Unite” will also feature characters from the fan favorite SONIC BOOM and MEGA MAN X universes.” - https://archiecomics.com/popular-se...s-sonicmega-man-crossover-event-worlds-unite/ This means that Sonic Boom is a Parallel between Archie and Sega (Games) Basically stitching them together I got more Sonic Boom Comics Takes Place In the same universe as the tv series/games https://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwbo...ans-For-Sonic-Boom-Comic-Book-Series-20140716 “ the comic series will reside in the same story universe as the TV series and games”
Once again, "Parallel universe" Does not mean they Share the Same Cosmology, As for the universes in worlds collide, i will explain that in further detail down below.
Sonic Boom Games is a prequel to the tv series https://www.google.com/amp/s/gamerant.com/sonic-boom-tv-show-game-wii-u-3ds-trailer/amp/ “Tying in with the new television announcement came word that a Sonic Boom video game will also be released exclusively on the Nintendo Wii U and 3DS. The new title acts as a prequel to the events in the animated show” Sonic Boom is a Parallel Universe to The games https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sega-explains-sonic-and-knuckles-new-look/1100-6418328/ “The announcement described Sonic Boom as taking place in a parallel universe to the existing Sonic the Hedgehog franchise” the sonic boom series is a parallel universe to the game sonic universe, the sonic boom series is a parallel universe to Archie Sonics multiverse so by canonical origin and extension the same would apply to the games. Ian Flynn confirmed that another time another place is the game Sonic universe https://www.sonicstadium.org/2010/11/sonic-colors-adaption-interview-sonic-writer-ian-flynn/
again, "Parallel universe" Does not mean they Share the Same Cosmology. As for Ian Flynn's Statement on Sega Sonic existing in Archie, A version of Sega Sonic does exist in the Archie Multiverse but as Ian already stated, Another place, time Story means they are entirely separate. I will once again further explain this in detail down below.
"TSS: This is…I believe the third game adaption in the book to use the setting “Another Time, Another Place”. Do these stories all take place in the same universe? IF: They could be – call it the “SegaSonic Universe” if you like. Or they could each be their own zone. It’s entirely up to the preference of the reader. TSS: Are these stories basically meant to take place in the game canon? IF: More or less, but it varies from project to project. The “Sonic and the Black Knight” tie-in was almost shot-for-shot, word-for-word the opening sequence so it’s obviously the same thing. “Sonic Colors” will be a little more liberal, but it’s still true to the source, so you can take it as a retelling or a synopsis. Archie Sonic is Considered an Expanded Universe to the Sega Sonic World: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/355478857727606804/691771793689804810/image0.png Ian Flynn stated Sega Sonic is a part of The Archie Sonic Multiverse: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/355478857727606804/691771795031982142/image1.png And IDW-Verse Sonic can literally be treated as an Alternate Timeline; seriously it splits with the Games only after Sonic Forces. That’s literally what an alternate timeline is. Sonic Mania Adventures and Sonic Mania Plus are within this scenario and they are described as something akin to alternate timelines according to Aaron Webber at 1:01:51 of https://youtu.be/TxU2Xc_zgMw in which he says for us to choose what is the sequel of Mania and at 1:03:07 the idea is reinforced that everything is Canon once again. 1:01:52 and 1:03:07 Canon Related Questions, Mania Adventures and Mania Plus are Alternating Timelines/Parallel Universes and Everything is Canon. But then again we go back to Ian Flynn’s confirmation and Aaron Webber’s statement.
Just because Archie is considered "An Expanded Universe" Does not make it canon, Especially when Ian has confirmed multiple times they do crossover and "Parallel Universe" Means different, Different Cosmology.
As for Ian Flynn's Statement on Sega Sonic existing in Archie, Yes but this does not imply Archie is canon, rather that Game Sonic does exist in the Archie canon Somewhere due to the nature of the Archie Multiverse. In other words Archie Game Sonic =/= Game Sonic. Archie Game Sonic is just a copy of Game Sonic that exist in the Archie Canon but does connect or Cross over with Game Sonic.
The issue with this video here is that it contradicts everything already established in you Argument. Aaron Webber's statement on "everything is Canon"
https://youtu.be/TxU2Xc_zgMw
1:02:00
Aaron Webber's statement on "everything is Canon" cannot co-exist with this statement. If it's being left up to interpretation, Then "Everything being Canon" Is false, as he just replenished his hold on the Sonic Canon, Meaning that his statement from 2017 is no longer valid. Its also not up to interpretation, if writers like Ian Flynn shoots down the idea of a shared cosmology between media, as there is a clear obvious to interpret Archie Canon.
Around this part right here, it becomes pretty obvious that the "everything is canon" is in fact a joke, as it wasn't worth Aaron remembering and he would've used it as an explanation much sooner.
1:03:07
Ian Flynn has a very big influence on the Archie and IDW Comics canon, He is given direct instructions from Sega which would include Aaron Webber about the story and the characters work and function within the Comics Canon and story. He still states that there separated from one another so, unless Aaron respond directly to those Statements, Archie, Boom and Game sonic do not exist in the Same Cosmology. The Main issue of this post in terms of Canon is Misinterpretation of the authors word and taking jokes too seriously. After All Aaron confirms Sonic 06 is non-canon after Saying Everything is Canon, Direct contradiction.
Everything else stated in the rest of the thread, I'm not going to get into. If you manage to boost Archie up a tier,
Great but Archie and Game Sonic do not share the same canon or cosmology. If this is for whatever reason is a troll post, Like come on dude, I spent good amount of my time addressing these contradictions within the Canon. Not cool bro.
Ian Flynn confirmed that Archie, Game and Boom Sonic are there own things, Separate from one another. His interpretation of “Parallel Universe” is that they are Separated entirely and Not connected to One another in Anyway.
11:23
He’s even uses a Pie analogy to explain this and Said the Boom Existence is exclusive to itself and all of these were done in the same Podcast channel. Also Ian Flynn debunked the idea of chō jigen in an interview.
1:53:14
A large majority of the argument is using half the statements made by Aaron and Ian. Also, Everything being Canon is an obvious joke. Aaron webber after making that Statement was Asked about if Sonic 06 was Canon, Here's what he said.
This very video that your using, Ian Flynn clearly explained that "Parrallel Universes" Does not mean they share cosmology but are Separate Stories/Canon
9:20 Ian Flynn outright states that different forms of Media, Should be treated as Parrallel Universe's in the context that there Canons are not connected as well as there Cosmology being separate and thats the issue with most of the thread evidence. Leaving out the bits where they deny the Claims of the medias connecting or Misinterpreting a authors words.
The Video where Ian Flynn Explains the Multiverse of Sonic Boom, He once again denies the Connection of the series to the games and Comics.
11:11-11:30
Ian clearly States that Sonic Boom's Multiverse is exclusive to itself and does not cross Canon with Archie and Game sonic.
This video, Aaaron is Clearly Joking because
1. Tails Can in fact die otherwise Tails vs Luigi debates won't go anywhere because lugi wins by doing nothing.
2. Everything isn't canon. https://imgur.com/a/L6n9GoR by Aaron words, Sonic 06 is non-canon.
https://youtu.be/axAvQSg1mM0
^But there’s more on just that statement “The announcement described Sonic Boom as taking place in a parallel universe to the existing Sonic the Hedgehog franchise, complete with its own cartoon series, children's toys, and two new video games for the Nintendo Wii U and 3DS, respectively. Sega was also quick to point out that Sonic Boom is not a replacement for the existing Sonic. Instead, think of it as a complement in the same way the Ultimate Marvel series complements Marvel comics, or Mega Man Legends complements Mega Man.” And “When Sega approached Big Red Button three years ago with Sonic Boom, the young team leapt at the opportunity. According to Rafei, Big Red Button was founded specifically to create character-focused action games, and Sonic Boom was exactly the sort of high-profile project his team needed to prove itself. The idea to make it a parallel universe with a unique style was decided early on; however, the decision on how this new style would look did not come as easily. "We went pretty wide with the designs at first, and by going too wide, we lost some of the spirit of the character and had to rein it in," said Rafei. "Sonic Team and Sega were very open-minded about our approach, and accepting of a lot of things we were doing.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ga...ins-sonic-and-knuckles-new-look/1100-6418328/ for the Boom Parallel Universe Quote. Meaning Boom is A Parallel Universe to Sega-Verse in the Same way Ultimates Marvel is To 616 and All-New Marvel
As i've already stated the use of the word "Parallel Universe" refers to separated Canon and Cosmology. This is Ian Flynn's Own statement, They do not share that Same Existence or Crossover.
In Archie The Boom Universe and Sega/Capcom Verses is Included in The Archie Multiverses in Worlds Unite! “Archie Comics crossover event set to include characters from STREET FIGHTER, MONSTER HUNTER, SKIES OF ARCADIA, and other popular video game franchises by SEGA and CAPCOM. Archie Comics is proud to announce that “Worlds Unite,” the sequel to 2013’s smash-hit “Worlds Collide” crossover storyline featuring Sonic the Hedgehog & Mega Man, will expand to include popular video game franchises from SEGA and CAPCOM, including “Street Fighter,” “Monster Hunter,” and more. Expanding beyond the focus on the worlds of Sonic the Hedgehog and Mega Man, “Worlds Unite” will also feature characters from the fan favorite SONIC BOOM and MEGA MAN X universes.” - https://archiecomics.com/popular-se...s-sonicmega-man-crossover-event-worlds-unite/ This means that Sonic Boom is a Parallel between Archie and Sega (Games) Basically stitching them together I got more Sonic Boom Comics Takes Place In the same universe as the tv series/games https://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwbo...ans-For-Sonic-Boom-Comic-Book-Series-20140716 “ the comic series will reside in the same story universe as the TV series and games”
Once again, "Parallel universe" Does not mean they Share the Same Cosmology, As for the universes in worlds collide, i will explain that in further detail down below.
Sonic Boom Games is a prequel to the tv series https://www.google.com/amp/s/gamerant.com/sonic-boom-tv-show-game-wii-u-3ds-trailer/amp/ “Tying in with the new television announcement came word that a Sonic Boom video game will also be released exclusively on the Nintendo Wii U and 3DS. The new title acts as a prequel to the events in the animated show” Sonic Boom is a Parallel Universe to The games https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sega-explains-sonic-and-knuckles-new-look/1100-6418328/ “The announcement described Sonic Boom as taking place in a parallel universe to the existing Sonic the Hedgehog franchise” the sonic boom series is a parallel universe to the game sonic universe, the sonic boom series is a parallel universe to Archie Sonics multiverse so by canonical origin and extension the same would apply to the games. Ian Flynn confirmed that another time another place is the game Sonic universe https://www.sonicstadium.org/2010/11/sonic-colors-adaption-interview-sonic-writer-ian-flynn/
again, "Parallel universe" Does not mean they Share the Same Cosmology. As for Ian Flynn's Statement on Sega Sonic existing in Archie, A version of Sega Sonic does exist in the Archie Multiverse but as Ian already stated, Another place, time Story means they are entirely separate. I will once again further explain this in detail down below.
"TSS: This is…I believe the third game adaption in the book to use the setting “Another Time, Another Place”. Do these stories all take place in the same universe? IF: They could be – call it the “SegaSonic Universe” if you like. Or they could each be their own zone. It’s entirely up to the preference of the reader. TSS: Are these stories basically meant to take place in the game canon? IF: More or less, but it varies from project to project. The “Sonic and the Black Knight” tie-in was almost shot-for-shot, word-for-word the opening sequence so it’s obviously the same thing. “Sonic Colors” will be a little more liberal, but it’s still true to the source, so you can take it as a retelling or a synopsis. Archie Sonic is Considered an Expanded Universe to the Sega Sonic World: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/355478857727606804/691771793689804810/image0.png Ian Flynn stated Sega Sonic is a part of The Archie Sonic Multiverse: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/355478857727606804/691771795031982142/image1.png And IDW-Verse Sonic can literally be treated as an Alternate Timeline; seriously it splits with the Games only after Sonic Forces. That’s literally what an alternate timeline is. Sonic Mania Adventures and Sonic Mania Plus are within this scenario and they are described as something akin to alternate timelines according to Aaron Webber at 1:01:51 of https://youtu.be/TxU2Xc_zgMw in which he says for us to choose what is the sequel of Mania and at 1:03:07 the idea is reinforced that everything is Canon once again. 1:01:52 and 1:03:07 Canon Related Questions, Mania Adventures and Mania Plus are Alternating Timelines/Parallel Universes and Everything is Canon. But then again we go back to Ian Flynn’s confirmation and Aaron Webber’s statement.
Just because Archie is considered "An Expanded Universe" Does not make it canon, Especially when Ian has confirmed multiple times they do crossover and "Parallel Universe" Means different, Different Cosmology.
As for Ian Flynn's Statement on Sega Sonic existing in Archie, Yes but this does not imply Archie is canon, rather that Game Sonic does exist in the Archie canon Somewhere due to the nature of the Archie Multiverse. In other words Archie Game Sonic =/= Game Sonic. Archie Game Sonic is just a copy of Game Sonic that exist in the Archie Canon but does connect or Cross over with Game Sonic.
The issue with this video here is that it contradicts everything already established in you Argument. Aaron Webber's statement on "everything is Canon"
https://youtu.be/TxU2Xc_zgMw
1:02:00
Aaron Webber's statement on "everything is Canon" cannot co-exist with this statement. If it's being left up to interpretation, Then "Everything being Canon" Is false, as he just replenished his hold on the Sonic Canon, Meaning that his statement from 2017 is no longer valid. Its also not up to interpretation, if writers like Ian Flynn shoots down the idea of a shared cosmology between media, as there is a clear obvious to interpret Archie Canon.
Around this part right here, it becomes pretty obvious that the "everything is canon" is in fact a joke, as it wasn't worth Aaron remembering and he would've used it as an explanation much sooner.
1:03:07
Ian Flynn has a very big influence on the Archie and IDW Comics canon, He is given direct instructions from Sega which would include Aaron Webber about the story and the characters work and function within the Comics Canon and story. He still states that there separated from one another so, unless Aaron respond directly to those Statements, Archie, Boom and Game sonic do not exist in the Same Cosmology. The Main issue of this post in terms of Canon is Misinterpretation of the authors word and taking jokes too seriously. After All Aaron confirms Sonic 06 is non-canon after Saying Everything is Canon, Direct contradiction.
Everything else stated in the rest of the thread, I'm not going to get into. If you manage to boost Archie up a tier,
Great but Archie and Game Sonic do not share the same canon or cosmology. If this is for whatever reason is a troll post, Like come on dude, I spent good amount of my time addressing these contradictions within the Canon. Not cool bro.
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Necro.
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I mean, it doesn't hurt to answer.
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Someone just close this already
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already asked to be closed
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Lmfao
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