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so uh, can anything thats been accepted be applied like the egg salamander downgrade?
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Massive Sonic CRT
- Thread starter LightReinh12345
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- sonic the hedgehog
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This isn't as good of a response as you think it is, just accept the fact you are wrong
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I'm gonna smack both of you if you keep this up.
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Toxicity again and forcing peeps opinons
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Yo what happened to this thread
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"Forcing opinions" what? He said that all supporters were biased towards Sonic and never support a downgrade or loss, he got proven wrong, there's no "opinions" here, just people that can't accept that if you say shit you are going to receive shit
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Please read through my comments and ask where did I say "all".
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You didn't say all, but that was definitvely your intention to lump multiple people together and not just me
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@Theuser789 and @Da_Lunge_Fish, please stop cluttering the thread with this pointless argument.
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First of all, I believe others already explained the Positive energy, negative energy based on empathy and what not, so the tiers can vary on the situation.
For the planet level stuff, while there are plenty of inconsistencies with Chaos such as Knuckles getting one-shotted by Chaos 0 twice in Sonic Adventure or Tails being terrified of him in Forces. And Chaos 0 is physically the strongest albeit slowest character in Sonic Battle. But Knuckles' case may be PIS given he has defeated Chaos 2 on his own before. And depending on Story mode, Sonic/Tails/Knuckles defeated Chaos 4. Sonic/Knuckles also defeated Chaos 6 albeit via using Ice weapons. Tails being afraid in Forces was a poorly written character regression on Tails' end, but Tails is consistently on par with Sonic and Knuckles. I do agree that Master Core Abis example is awkward; scaling people from black holes in general is often very iffy especially if it one-shots everyone, but other reasons. For the one Chaos Emerald, I still agree it seems assumptive that using One Chaos Emerald was used to split planet via Time Manipulation when the entire plot is needing all 7 and/or the Master Emerald depending on good or bad ending. But I've already argued that too much in the past, and kind concrete details either side so just going to skip over to the next one. The Sonic Unleashed feat is considered solid via Executor N0's evaluation, so Planet level+ is a solid feat.
On to the next list, Eggrobo's feat there is truth that the Extractor's energy absorption is not quite Tier 5; energy extraction feats are measured in watts instead of Joules, which is Tier 6. But the totality of the energy was stated to be enough to destroy the planet, which is a 5-B pool of energy at minimum. If we were to assume baseline, then Eggrobo would be limited to 5-B with one attack since one punch would be assumed depleting it entirely. However, Eggrobo being Tier 5 via powerscaling would make it consistent. Also, it's not like "Baseline 5-B" is a cap for Eggrobo. Egg Dragoon, it's kinda vague how much energy is stolen from Dark Gaia yes, so I'd probably just scale him from fighting base Sonic as opposed to assuming Dragoon is as strong as Dark Gaia.
Perfect Chaos section next, 3DS version has a contradiction, it was Shadow who fight Biolizard, not Sonic. But Sonic still stomped him, so no antifeat there. There are some good points of Sonic having 3 Emeralds when he fought Perfect Chaos then getting his 4th one from him, but that could just be plot contradiction. Because the various time periods are supposed to be Modern Sonic redoing the Classic and Adventure period stages and bosses via time travel. There is a 5-B+ feat done via one Chaos Emerald, it can be argued what to say about 2, let alone 3-6 and obviously 7. Emeralds do not amp users linearly, but it typically is like 7 being astronomically superior to 6. I'll get back to that when I address the next detail. And finally, the other 5-A feats. We have 2 5-A feats from the negative energy of Chaos Emeralds via Dark Gaia's feat and Eclipse Cannon. I recall Merlight said he lowballed the 6 CEEC and said it would be more like 5-A if ISL was taken into account. And the 5-A Ark feat is a solid back up, which Perfect Chaos should be comparable if not superior to Final Hazard and roughly as strong as base Dark Gaia. Mother Wisp also had a Tier 5 statement somewhere.
I do not need to go over the reactive power level stuff; others already did above. Scaling loopholes aside, and there's also still the weak point stuff combined with ISL when a small character fights a giant, but there's still other consistent Tier 5 stuff that do not hurt the ratings regardless.
For the Tier 2 section, where to start. I'll begin with Egg Salamander. It is the 7 Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds combined might that did the baseline 2-C feat, which are implied to be equal in power. And thus Low 2-C individually. If Egg Salamander tanked hits from the combined might of Sonic and Blaze, then 2-C for them is fine. But even without that, Low 2-C isn't even the upper limit of Super Hedgehog's power. That, and merging feats may not scale to physical attacks by default later on, but Chaos Emeralds are a universal power source, so they are fine as an example feat. And merging the worlds was going to collapse both dimensions over time, so it would still be AP.
Egg Wizard did have a statement of being superior to the Chaos and Sol Emeralds, that was via Power of the Stars. And even if the mech is not as tough as that jewel scepter, but it was still an upgrade over Egg Salamander and thus should still be Tier 2 physically. But this is not full power Sonic, and Egg Wizard couldn't scathe Super Sonic unlike Solaris iirc. And actually, they repelled Jewel Scepter attacks back at Egg Wizard, so Egg Wizard seems to be pretty solid actually. But we still agree Egg Wizard < Solaris.
Time Eater and Solaris already discussed above by Maverick. Now anyway, does anybody else have more to add? Or may I close this thread. Looks like no downgrades are happening here, but that certain feats and reasons could use tweaking.
For the planet level stuff, while there are plenty of inconsistencies with Chaos such as Knuckles getting one-shotted by Chaos 0 twice in Sonic Adventure or Tails being terrified of him in Forces. And Chaos 0 is physically the strongest albeit slowest character in Sonic Battle. But Knuckles' case may be PIS given he has defeated Chaos 2 on his own before. And depending on Story mode, Sonic/Tails/Knuckles defeated Chaos 4. Sonic/Knuckles also defeated Chaos 6 albeit via using Ice weapons. Tails being afraid in Forces was a poorly written character regression on Tails' end, but Tails is consistently on par with Sonic and Knuckles. I do agree that Master Core Abis example is awkward; scaling people from black holes in general is often very iffy especially if it one-shots everyone, but other reasons. For the one Chaos Emerald, I still agree it seems assumptive that using One Chaos Emerald was used to split planet via Time Manipulation when the entire plot is needing all 7 and/or the Master Emerald depending on good or bad ending. But I've already argued that too much in the past, and kind concrete details either side so just going to skip over to the next one. The Sonic Unleashed feat is considered solid via Executor N0's evaluation, so Planet level+ is a solid feat.
On to the next list, Eggrobo's feat there is truth that the Extractor's energy absorption is not quite Tier 5; energy extraction feats are measured in watts instead of Joules, which is Tier 6. But the totality of the energy was stated to be enough to destroy the planet, which is a 5-B pool of energy at minimum. If we were to assume baseline, then Eggrobo would be limited to 5-B with one attack since one punch would be assumed depleting it entirely. However, Eggrobo being Tier 5 via powerscaling would make it consistent. Also, it's not like "Baseline 5-B" is a cap for Eggrobo. Egg Dragoon, it's kinda vague how much energy is stolen from Dark Gaia yes, so I'd probably just scale him from fighting base Sonic as opposed to assuming Dragoon is as strong as Dark Gaia.
Perfect Chaos section next, 3DS version has a contradiction, it was Shadow who fight Biolizard, not Sonic. But Sonic still stomped him, so no antifeat there. There are some good points of Sonic having 3 Emeralds when he fought Perfect Chaos then getting his 4th one from him, but that could just be plot contradiction. Because the various time periods are supposed to be Modern Sonic redoing the Classic and Adventure period stages and bosses via time travel. There is a 5-B+ feat done via one Chaos Emerald, it can be argued what to say about 2, let alone 3-6 and obviously 7. Emeralds do not amp users linearly, but it typically is like 7 being astronomically superior to 6. I'll get back to that when I address the next detail. And finally, the other 5-A feats. We have 2 5-A feats from the negative energy of Chaos Emeralds via Dark Gaia's feat and Eclipse Cannon. I recall Merlight said he lowballed the 6 CEEC and said it would be more like 5-A if ISL was taken into account. And the 5-A Ark feat is a solid back up, which Perfect Chaos should be comparable if not superior to Final Hazard and roughly as strong as base Dark Gaia. Mother Wisp also had a Tier 5 statement somewhere.
I do not need to go over the reactive power level stuff; others already did above. Scaling loopholes aside, and there's also still the weak point stuff combined with ISL when a small character fights a giant, but there's still other consistent Tier 5 stuff that do not hurt the ratings regardless.
For the Tier 2 section, where to start. I'll begin with Egg Salamander. It is the 7 Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds combined might that did the baseline 2-C feat, which are implied to be equal in power. And thus Low 2-C individually. If Egg Salamander tanked hits from the combined might of Sonic and Blaze, then 2-C for them is fine. But even without that, Low 2-C isn't even the upper limit of Super Hedgehog's power. That, and merging feats may not scale to physical attacks by default later on, but Chaos Emeralds are a universal power source, so they are fine as an example feat. And merging the worlds was going to collapse both dimensions over time, so it would still be AP.
Egg Wizard did have a statement of being superior to the Chaos and Sol Emeralds, that was via Power of the Stars. And even if the mech is not as tough as that jewel scepter, but it was still an upgrade over Egg Salamander and thus should still be Tier 2 physically. But this is not full power Sonic, and Egg Wizard couldn't scathe Super Sonic unlike Solaris iirc. And actually, they repelled Jewel Scepter attacks back at Egg Wizard, so Egg Wizard seems to be pretty solid actually. But we still agree Egg Wizard < Solaris.
Time Eater and Solaris already discussed above by Maverick. Now anyway, does anybody else have more to add? Or may I close this thread. Looks like no downgrades are happening here, but that certain feats and reasons could use tweaking.
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I can remove the black holes feats from Sonic the Hedgehog (Game Character) if it’s unlocked.
After that this can be closed.
After that this can be closed.
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@Cloozuma I'd rather not point fingers or say anything offensive to either side, but it just needs to be said Sonic threads have always been controversial. Not quite HST levels, but still.
@Maverick_Zero_X I have unlocked it.
@Maverick_Zero_X I have unlocked it.
Last edited:
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Done. This can be wrapped up.
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Okay
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