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Massive Sonic CRT

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"With a roar", didn't knew emeralds could roar
Click to expand...
The emeralds were in space, roar refer to the sound the planet made when got ripped apart, anywyas this doesn't refute the point Dark Gaia didn't as he was sleeping until the planet was split
 

Things I agree with​

  • I think that Super Forms should have “Extremely High” stamina instead of “Limitless”
  • The black hole created by Master Core: ABIS shouldn’t be scaled to the cast since it’s just a feat of Gravity Manipulation

Erroneous stuff​

  • Characters defeating Chaos Via attacking its brain wouldn’t mean they’re thousands of times weaker, and they’d still end up scaling to the Emeralds via Emerl, Shadow and Team Dark fighting Mephiles while he was powered by a Chaos Emerald, Shadow using the full power of his Emerald, and the cast defeating the Voxai while they’re powered by the Great Emeralds.
  • Sonic still scales to Infinite despite being weaker. He could harm him after getting stronger and outright defeated him with backup in a 2v1 fight. Infinite calling Sonic and his friends “powerless” is just an example of his arrogant god complex, he still got his ass kicked.
So there was calc about the emeralds being around Planet level due to Unleashed. But there is a problem with all these calc it’s the time frame
Click to expand...

Sonic put the emeralds to restore the continent, he had a whole fight with Eggman, then Dark Gaia appeared, some event, and Chip call the temples, and the continent didn’t reach the Earth yet
Click to expand...

While this claim is just blatantly dishonest. As soon as Sonic places an Emerald in a Gaia Temple, a continent moves back in place. We’re visually shown this happening in seconds.

Eggrobo didn't absorb all the energy of the planet, only part of it, most of it was in the extractor. And the Eggrobo has just a Hax at Large Planet level, not his physical strength since he use the Wisps
Click to expand...

beside this black hole can one shot Sonic amp a bit by the planet’s energy, and it can even one shot Super Sonic, though there is no proof I can send of the last claim, you can check it yourself if you have the game
Click to expand...

Black holes ignore durability.

So it’s unquantifiable how much energy Eggman took from Dark Gaia, so it would be assumption to say that the Egg Dragon is Large Planet level
Click to expand...

Eggman had gathered all the energy of the incomplete Dark Gaia that had dispersed across the globe via an energy beacon. He had even stated that he harnessed the energy of the Dark Gaia that was “whole and complete” to create the Egg Dragoon.

Sonic getting stronger each second was a mistranslation and he said in the Japanese version he might get stronger each seconds
Click to expand...

W-What? How did you type this and think this was a good debunk? Like, what?

Sonic blatantly gets stronger, deal with it.

In Generations Classic Super Sonic does about as much damage as Modern Super Sonic to the Time Eater,
Click to expand...

They were amped by the same power source and thus on the same level.


In Sonic Forces Classic Sonic is able to beat the Egg Dragon which compared to the one in Unleashed only lost 10 % of his strength
Click to expand...

Cool, you debunked yourself. Sonic would still scale to 5-A by this logic, since 10% less than its full strength would still be in 5-A.

I’ll address the other stuff in a separate comment like the OP should’ve made a thread for each of these topics
 
Currently reading the document, have this to say:
*Sonic needs to pierce P. Chaos body to reach his brain, so he should still scale.
*Chaos 0 in Sonic Forces isn't real (By "real" I mean the original one), so being stronger than Knuckles or Silver doesn't mean much.
*We still have a clear timeframe for the 6 previous continents, so we can switch which one is calced.
*The Sonic Advance 3 feat is just support evidence, and it has no timeframe so it's just baseline 5-B and weaker than the Sonic Unleashed feat.
*I'm sure the being meant to use the Chaos Emeralds is stronger with them that a cannon that just uses the Chaos Emeralds a battery, specially considering he's liquid chaos energy.
*Dropping a Sun into the Earth would burn the atmosphere, so strength isn't really a factor. Besides, what do you expect them to do? Kick the sun away?
*Super Modern and Classic Sonic were using the same energy source at the same time, why would any of them be weaker than the other?
*The Classic Sonic that appears in Forces diverges from Modern Sonic as early as Green Hill in Sonic 1, and also defeated Metal Sonic and Eggman (With the help of Knuckles and Tails), both empowered with the Phantom Ruby. If anything, Modern Sonic should get his Classic key back (With the 5-B+ stuff), and Classic Sonic from the Mania universe should be scaled to Modern.
*The statements for the Super Forms consuming a lot of energy don't make a whole lot of sense when you consider the Chaos Emeralds have infinite power (Positive, at least).

If I didn't abord everything, is because I'm not knowledgeable enough.
Also, I didn't read the thread so sorry if I'm repeating stuff.
 
"The sound the planet made", bro..... that was Dark Gaia, you literally debunked yourself
Click to expand...
Never did don't know where you got this though, Dark Gaia =/= planet
 
Theuser789 said:
Stop, just stop, the document is indeed all downgrades, it debunks all tier 5 feats downgrading Sonic, it debunks tier 2 feats/scaling, downgrading him outside of "amps" which is a downgrade because he currently isn't, just stop, you are trying too hard
Click to expand...
Lol no in am not even trying infact i didnt even make the document stop assuming lol bro no it didnt he still scale to Solaris & yes he was empowered
 
Gonna point something out.

on top of it he had 3 emeralds, and simply holding emeralds give you a boost, at least for the user
Click to expand...

This just makes Base characters scaling to single Chaos Emeralds WAY more consistent. So, thanks.

image0.jpg
 
Yeah, I'm going to cover some shitty topics on that document.


Starting by the Planet level scalling.

Sonic defeats Chaos via hitting his brain aka his weakness.
Click to expand...
What does his weakness have to do with his resistance being a glass canon? It's never once suggested, the fact that you have to hit his brain is just because you have to hit it, doesn't discredit the rest of his durability, Sonic overpowered Chaos by his own, he shows superiority in most cases where he fights him, even on Sonic Adventure.

In Generation the guide stated each boss has weakness, and Perfect Chaos was there, and Sonic hit only his brain, so his brain was his weakness
Click to expand...
Same repetition, not even going to continue on this point, thus that is answered by the other point I have sent.
Sonic put the emeralds to restore the continent, he had a whole fight with Eggman, then Dark Gaia appeared, some event, and Chip call the temples, and the continent didn’t reach the Earth yet
Click to expand...
Dark Gaia has awakened himself and planet was split apart into the continents you have to restore by using the power of each emerald, it doesn't discredit the fact that it took less time to even split it. (And minutes aren't even shown, in fact the feat occurs a few seconds later after Eggman performs the Chaos Energy Cannon to awaken Dark Gaia's presence, and then he performs the feat)
The arks of the cosmos can manipulate gravity and create a black hole by hax, no proof it scale to Master Core’s AP
Click to expand...

That black hole was going to in fact suck the planet, but what's the proof this guy has that this doesn't scale to his AP when he is empowered by a planet level black hole generated by the ark of the cosmos's power?
So it’s unquantifiable how much energy Eggman took from Dark Gaia, so it would be assumption to say that the Egg Dragon is Large Planet level
Click to expand...
A incomplete Dark Gaia has shattered the planet apart by using his hands, it wouldn't be a bad assumption to take in mind that he scales to the said power.
on top of it he had 3 emeralds, and simply holding emeralds give you a boost, at least for the user
Click to expand...
And you have proof that he was being empowered by it when nothing suggest it and he did only beat him in base?
The Emerald amp is supported as in Generation Sonic beat Shadow while they are equal, Sonic had 3 emerald
Click to expand...
Sonic did beat Shadow because he has the said skill counters and equally comparable power, even on Sonic Adventure 2 they had already fought each other and Sonic won.
And nothing show Perfect Chaos > The Ark
Click to expand...
Yeah, pretty biased, Perfect Chaos is empowered by the 7 Emeralds, said emeralds gives the ARK enough power to charge the Eclipse Cannon that has energy to pierce through stars.
(No reason to think he doesn't scale to the said power.)

I don't think this even needs explanation, alright? So ok, let's move into the others.
The Eggmans explain that in close proximity the emeralds call to each other, and this resonance is stated to create explosive results, And that it’s only once they get both Chaos and Sol Powers that they will scale to this, harnessing the power of the resonance, the Egg Salamander had only the Sol emeralds when they fight. Also it wasn’t because of the Sols emeralds that the worlds fused, but because of the 14 emeralds calling to each other that the world fused as the Eggmans explained and that when they stop to call to each other the worlds stopped to fuse, so it was from calling each other that the worlds fused
Click to expand...
Explosive results that are anyway caused by their power, in any stance, Blaze states the Sol Emeralds are ledding her world to fuse with Sonic's, it's not only the power of 14, the power of the 14 only overcomes even more the said energy, thus Sonic using the power of the emeralds can maintain a dimensional instability between the said worlds.
They didn’t beat him at full strength, stated that he is stronger than both Super Sonic and Burning Blaze
Click to expand...
Even if he was stronger, nothing suggest an infinite gap of power between both, thus Sonic and Blaze were even able to deflect the attacks of the Egg Wizard harnessing the POTS energy, and thus Eggman said he uses the POTS with some knowledge that he can't use the full potential of the emeralds going by their negative energy, thus nothing really suggests that he was holding back, and also, the Planet-Buster Laser part was countered by even Marine before Egg Wizard managed to shoot it to destroy the undergrounds.
Time Eater is darkness, so Super Sonic can neutralize negative + Chaos emeralds/power are his weakness, so yeah with the Seven emeralds it was easy to defeat him, the guide even stated they were overloading the Time Eater being Super, so were overloading him with Chaos Energy Aka his weakness
Click to expand...
I can use the same logic of yours to say that Super Sonic doesn't scale to Perfect Chaos due to neutralizing negative energy by purification, which by itself is just false equivalency assumptions to start with, also, Tails even stated they would use the power of the emeralds to restore the world after defeating the Time Eater, the Emeralds does in fact scale above Time Eater's capability, he can't even bypass Super Sonic's invunerability factor.
And his core is his weakness
Click to expand...
And you can prove that this shit is a glass cannon? I guess no, right?
And every friend of Sonic tell them to be careful and to dodge his attacks or they will be in trouble, and need to combine their power to go through the little ball
Click to expand...
And? Super Sonic is unharmed by the Time Eater's attacks, which by itself says otherwise, so what's the point of taking this out? Also, that ball of energy has Low 2-C AP, doesn't even debunk the other points.

Now moving into Solaris.
Did they really fight him in different time periods ?
Click to expand...
They used the space-time rift in order to travel through the time periods, also, Eggman stated Solaris can't be defeated in one single timeline, the hedgehogs obviously have to travel through the timelines to affect Solaris's Type 3 acausality in order to erase him from existence.
And Super Sonic is stated to be less stronger than Solaris first form.
Click to expand...
The same guide states Super Sonic has the power to banish the living flames out of the podium.
Supported there when they couldn’t survive to many hit from Solaris, proving they are weaker and supporting the claim about Solaris > Super Sonic
Click to expand...
What the scan does only say is that the heroes can't survive his attacks? Are you joking, right? Thus the only thing Solaris does is have enough power to neg Super Sonic's invunerability factor, in fact, he doesn't even one-shot the Super forms by using his attacks.
Solaris has enough power to reflect attacks from Super Sonic
Click to expand...
And Super Sonic can perform attacks to move faster than Solaris and thus even more powerful than the same, a super charged Arrow Of Light is shown to have capability to blitz Solaris's reaction.
So he was in different time period but in the time space rift it’s the same so they fight only 1 Solaris. Knowing that also, how could everyone have cheered for them if they were in different time periods ? If time is not mixed in the time space rift
Click to expand...
They couldn't see Solaris in the space-time rift, only notice his presence, also, Time was changed and they travelled in order to affect Solaris type 3 acausality, of course they have to fight in diferent time periods, cool, just repeating your points.
And yes the Core is weaker than Solaris since Super Sonic couldn’t even harm Solaris’s body
Click to expand...
Any type of standard are not going to work on Solaris, thus Sonic has to use super-charged chaos powers to directly harm him, powers full powered by his capability, same with Shadow and Silver, so what's the meaning of this?
And they were a lot amp since it was stated they pray and wish a lot
Click to expand...
Yet, false equivalency, that statement was before the battle between the Super Forms and Solaris even started, Sonic's friends were praying for his return since they know he and the hedgehogs are the only ones who have the power to defeat Solaris.



Going to cover the other stuff on a separate comment.
 
While this claim is just blatantly dishonest. As soon as Sonic places an Emerald in a Gaia Temple, a continent moves back in place. We’re visually shown this happening in seconds.
Click to expand...
Later is show it didn't took seconds with the last continents, and when you see the continents moving it was already moving, no contradiction than it was already moving

Eggman had gathered all the energy of the incomplete Dark Gaia that had dispersed across the globe via an energy beacon. He had even stated that he harnessed the energy of the Dark Gaia that was “whole and complete” to create the Egg Dragoon.
Click to expand...
He gather it to makes Dark Gaia whole again, never was stated he took ALL the energy and put it in the Egg Dragon

W-What? How did you type this and think this was a good debunk? Like, what?

Sonic blatantly gets stronger, deal with it.
Click to expand...
Never was deniying Sonic gets stronger

They were amped by the same power source and thus on the same level.
Click to expand...
Won't matter since their base wouldn't be equal so not same level, and their base is show around the same level too

Cool, you debunked yourself. Sonic would still scale to 5-A by this logic, since 10% less than its full strength would still be in 5-A.
Click to expand...
It doesn't though + It was about them scalling close not about Classic's power
 
Rodri_"Dante" said:
The Classic Sonic that appears in Forces diverges from Modern Sonic as early as Green Hill in Sonic 1, and also defeated Metal Sonic and Eggman (With the help of Knuckles and Tails), both empowered with the Phantom Ruby. If anything, Modern Sonic should get his Classic key back (With the 5-B+ stuff), and Classic Sonic from the Mania universe should be scaled to Modern.
Click to expand...
I actually don't mind this idea, though it would have to be prepared and done in a separate CRT. For obvious reasons lol.
 
I’m not certain how we should treat both Emeralds merging the universes. Would it be “At least Low 2-C”, or a “half Low 2-C” like how we treat Beerus and Champa’s combined power being able to destroy two universes?
 
Ok guys, I know you don't want a downgrade, but can you stop being so condescending? This is the kind of shit we get mocked for.
Click to expand...
Apologies if people get frustated that this low quality threads keep hitting the same verse, it's not like people don't mock actual good threads
 
There have been downgrade threads with legitimate quality where debates have happened and all became right with the world. Dealing with this sort of formatting, however, is so jarring that I almost didn't take it seriously at first. Because multiple others were made in the exact same way. It's like saying "Okay okay, you did it once. But I'll get you this time!"

Regardless, most of this has been debunked already by Rodri and Mav without the use of sarcasm or hostility. So my stance is with theirs.
 
For real, can yall stop with the discord scans?

I cannot in good conscious take this CRT seriously until formatted properly.
 
What does his weakness have to do with his resistance being a glass canon? It's never once suggested, the fact that you have to hit his brain is just because you have to hit it, doesn't discredit the rest of his durability, Sonic overpowered Chaos by his own, he shows superiority in most cases where he fights him, even on Sonic Adventure.
Click to expand...
He always hit his brain though

Dark Gaia has awakened himself and planet was split apart into the continents you have to restore by using the power of each emerald, it doesn't discredit the fact that it took less time to even split it. (And minutes aren't even shown, in fact the feat occurs a few seconds later after Eggman performs the Chaos Energy Cannon to awaken Dark Gaia's presence, and then he performs the feat)
Click to expand...
How it is even related to the point ? Could you re-write more clrear

That black hole was going to in fact suck the planet, but what's the proof this guy has that this doesn't scale to his AP when he is empowered by a planet level black hole generated by the ark of the cosmos's power?
Click to expand...
What proof it has ? the ark do that by hax with gravity, not raw power

A incomplete Dark Gaia has shattered the planet apart by using his hands, it wouldn't be a bad assumption to take in mind that he scales to the said power.
Click to expand...
It was the emeralds as stated + even if you still need to quantify as Eggman could have took less than a fraction of Dark Gaia's power, so until you can quantify it it's unquantifiable

And you have proof that he was being empowered by it when nothing suggest it and he did only beat him in base?
Click to expand...
The CRT show the reason why he is
Yeah, pretty biased, Perfect Chaos is empowered by the 7 Emeralds, said emeralds gives the ARK enough power to charge the Eclipse Cannon that has energy to pierce through stars.
(No reason to think he doesn't scale to the said power.)

I don't think this even needs explanation, alright? So ok, let's move into the others.
Click to expand...
Still doesn't proove Perfect Chaos is above what you said proove nothing, just show the emerald power up both and one which could pierce through stars, where is the part about Perfect being above the Ark ? Nowhere

Sonic did beat Shadow because he has the said skill counters and equally comparable power, even on Sonic Adventure 2 they had already fought each other and Sonic won.
Click to expand...
He didn't, only in the hero story, while in the dark story shadow win, so it's not a good proof Sonic is above knowing Shadow was stated to be equal to Sonic even in abilities

Explosive results that are anyway caused by their power, in any stance, Blaze states the Sol Emeralds are ledding her world to fuse with Sonic's, it's not only the power of 14, the power of the 14 only overcomes even more the said energy, thus Sonic using the power of the emeralds can maintain a dimensional instability between the said worlds.
Click to expand...
She said it, and seem you didn't see the eggmans and Sonic stated the resonance did, and Sonic maintain the dimension since he stop the resonance

Even if he was stronger, nothing suggest an infinite gap of power between both, thus Sonic and Blaze were even able to deflect the attacks of the Egg Wizard harnessing the POTS energy, and thus Eggman said he uses the POTS with some knowledge that he can't use the full potential of the emeralds going by their negative energy, thus nothing really suggests that he was holding back, and also, the Planet-Buster Laser part was countered by even Marine before Egg Wizard managed to shoot it to destroy the undergrounds.
Click to expand...
Nothing suggest a finite gap. Only Sonic did and as show in the Egg Wizard was supressed. "Eggman said he uses the POTS with some knowledge that he can't use the full potential of the emeralds going by their negative energy" Headcanon was stated nowhere. And yes supressed since he didn't use from the start a attack which can kill both of them. It wasn't countered Marine just distract it and Egg Wizard cancel his attack, still doesn't refute him being supressed, he could still kill them

can use the same logic of yours to say that Super Sonic doesn't scale to Perfect Chaos due to neutralizing negative energy by purification, which by itself is just false equivalency assumptions to start with, also, Tails even stated they would use the power of the emeralds to restore the world after defeating the Time Eater, the Emeralds does in fact scale above Time Eater's capability, he can't even bypass Super Sonic's invunerability factor.
Click to expand...

Your argument about Perfect Chaos refute nothing.
Tails didn’t say the emeralds would restore the world, but that beating the Time Eater would restore the world. When they beat him, there is a white light, when it disappears they are back to the party

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...118935556116/unknown.png?width=917&height=516

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...329612755025/unknown.png?width=917&height=516

Each time we saw this light it was involving the Time Eater with his abilities

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...950444580965/unknown.png?width=917&height=516

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...654430474270/unknown.png?width=917&height=516

Even supported there

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...940918075442/unknown.png?width=917&height=516

Beating Time Eater would restore the world, so it’s not the emeralds which restored the world,

And you can prove that this shit is a glass cannon? I guess no, right?
Click to expand...
What part don't you get in a weak point ? Was stated by the manual the Core is vulnerable

And? Super Sonic is unharmed by the Time Eater's attacks, which by itself says otherwise, so what's the point of taking this out? Also, that ball of energy has Low 2-C AP, doesn't even debunk the other points.
Click to expand...


The time eater can damage Sonic as all his friends say so, also as it was show in the CRT Time Eater did by Hax and you didn't refute it

They used the space-time rift in order to travel through the time periods, also, Eggman stated Solaris can't be defeated in one single timeline, the hedgehogs obviously have to travel through the timelines to affect Solaris's Type 3 acausality in order to erase him from existence.
Click to expand...
He said this without knowing Solaris was at the center of the time period and ancorched, which is supported since they took turn, so nothing show he was Omnipresent at this moment while it was suggest the opposite

The same guide states Super Sonic has the power to banish the living flames out of the podium.
Click to expand...

The guide doesn't say Sonic > Solaris, it only comments how much Eggman pray for Sonic's return, supported like it's stated only Sonic have the power, yet Shadow = Sonic and by this logic Shadow wouldn't be able to beat his Solaris yet did yet was stated ONLY Sonic have the power to beat Solaris

What the scan does only say is that the heroes can't survive his attacks? Are you joking, right? Thus the only thing Solaris does is have enough power to neg Super Sonic's invunerability factor, in fact, he doesn't even one-shot the Super forms by using his attacks.
Click to expand...
Can't survie many hits* Read corectly, and Sonic doesn't have invulnerability factor considering a lot of boss harm him and that even Eggman's machine in Unleashed did and that it was stated nowhere Sonic is

And Super Sonic can perform attacks to move faster than Solaris and thus even more powerful than the same, a super charged Arrow Of Light is shown to have capability to blitz Solaris's reaction.
Click to expand...
How does that even refute Solaris being lower ? The only thing which change was speed nothing about Power

They couldn't see Solaris in the space-time rift, only notice his presence, also, Time was changed and they travelled in order to affect Solaris type 3 acausality, of course they have to fight in diferent time periods, cool, just repeating your points.
Click to expand...
Amy- "There is a stange thing in the middle of Solaris, isn't this the core ?"

Eggman- "Probably the light sheel that can be see on his body"

Yes they could see him

Any type of standard are not going to work on Solaris, thus Sonic has to use super-charged chaos powers to directly harm him, powers full powered by his capability, same with Shadow and Silver, so what's the meaning of this?
Click to expand...
Stated they couldn't harm his body, they only damage his armor and core

Yet, false equivalency, that statement was before the battle between the Super Forms and Solaris even started, Sonic's friends were praying for his return since they know he and the hedgehogs are the only ones who have the power to defeat Solaris.
Click to expand...
It's not since the emeralds turn though into power, so these though amp the emeralds then Sonic absorbed them. And no was stated just SOnic if we take what you send earlier
 
ShakeResounding said:
There have been downgrade threads with legitimate quality where debates have happened and all became right with the world. Dealing with this sort of formatting, however, is so jarring that I almost didn't take it seriously at first. Because multiple others were made in the exact same way. It's like saying "Okay okay, you did it once. But I'll get you this time
Click to expand...
Read the op kindly cause I didnt even know Threads like that before anyway I dont See still any reason to be hostile & behaving rudely & I know this formatting of writing is kinda annoying to read
 
Can someone close the thread ? Just too lazy to continue

Though I will change the CRT I made then
 
I mean despite the invalid points there are some things that can be done here

  • Limitless stamina should go
  • The Sonic Rush feat might just be Low 2-C since it was both sets of Emeralds merging/destroying the 2 universes, downgrading the Egg Salamander to Low 2-C
  • Master Core:ABIS should be removed as justification
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
I mean despite the invalid points there are some things that can be done here

  • Limitless stamina should go
  • The Sonic Rush feat might just be Low 2-C since it was both sets of Emeralds merging/destroying the 2 universes, downgrading the Egg Salamander to Low 2-C
  • Master Core:ABIS should be removed as justification
Click to expand...
i agree to this
 
I am fine with that
Maverick_Zero_X said:
I mean despite the invalid points there are some things that can be done here

  • Limitless stamina should go
  • The Sonic Rush feat might just be Low 2-C since it was both sets of Emeralds merging/destroying the 2 universes, downgrading the Egg Salamander to Low 2-C
  • Master Core:ABIS should be removed as justification
Click to expand...
 
The one thing I do somewhat agree with is the varying power of Super Forms. I always felt they were pretty consistently at least universal. Never was sure where they got the “full power” of the Emeralds thing from. But that’s a whole different conversation about my personal scaling chain for another day.
 
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