- 2,047
- 778
Well I think this should be settled then. The majority of users here seem to be on board with everything here and so far the only person who disagrees with something is Dr Fix.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Massive One Piece Profiles Revision Part 2
- Thread starter The_Calaca
- Start date
- 14,575
- 5,876
- Thread starter
- #42
Okay, let's move to the next topic:
Marco's regen. I explained above that Mid should be the at least with another possible upper category. Thoughts?
Marco's regen. I explained above that Mid should be the at least with another possible upper category. Thoughts?
- 2,047
- 778
What's the suggestion for Marco's regen? Low High or higher?
- 14,575
- 5,876
- Thread starter
- #44
Low-High as the maximum.
- 2,047
- 778
Either "At Least Mid, Possibly Low High." or "Likely / possibly Low High" should work.
- 14,575
- 5,876
- Thread starter
- #47
I agree with that, but Rin's proposal is also okay to me so I'm neutral on this.
- 31,209
- 27,406
I think that we should word it as just 'At least Mid' and leave it at that. Seeing as the statement is so open-ended I don't think we can say it is definitely a higher level.
- 2,047
- 778
I'd also be fine with At Least Mid.
- 14,575
- 5,876
- Thread starter
- #51
So at least Mid for Marco. Good.
Next: Sakazuki's Danmaku.
Next: Sakazuki's Danmaku.
- 2,047
- 778
I'm neutral on Akainu's Danmaku, but if he gets it I think limited Danmaku would work better.
- 31,209
- 27,406
I don't think Akainu's really qualifies as Danmaku tbh, otherwise we might as well say Ace has Danmaku for shooting several fire bullets.
- 2,047
- 778
Actually Ace has better arguments for Danmaku via Firey Fly, but I don't think that counts either.
- 31,209
- 27,406
Err, regarding the Fire Absorption; I don't think we actually see any of the fire going into Ace. It just looks like there's fire in the area for a few panels then there weirdly isn't any fire with no apparent transition or cause.
- 2,047
- 778
Look closer at the scans. We see the fire being pulled towards Ace's body, and his lower legs (I.E his feet.) still seem to be in his Logia state. After that the fire disappears and fire doesn't burn out that quickly. Blackbeard didn't interact with the darkness either at this and it's consistent with the anime version ( Which isn't canon but can be used as support. ) hence why I think "possible fire absorbtion" works here.
you can also see Ace's torso, his legs and his feet as a bright orange tint ( His normal Logia state is usually like this. ) so the most logical and probable conclusion is that Ace absorbed the fire. Lines up with the anime perfectly so it's consistent.
you can also see Ace's torso, his legs and his feet as a bright orange tint ( His normal Logia state is usually like this. ) so the most logical and probable conclusion is that Ace absorbed the fire. Lines up with the anime perfectly so it's consistent.
- 31,209
- 27,406
I don't think the scans show that, but after looking at the anime clip that is what is being suggested in the scene. So I'm neutral on it.
- 3,669
- 1,080
The fire doesn't at all "look" like it's being pulled to his feet in an obvious way though; it's just burning. Plus let's consider how logia types have been set up to function in universe, has there been a situation where a logia user absorbs their element? We can use that as a precedent, if no then coupled with the unclear artistic style I'd argue this shouldn't be added. But if yes then there is reason to consider that Ace could be absorbing the flames.
- 2,047
- 778
Look at the scan again, it's like the scene in the anime. Ace is in his Logia form, as seen with his hands, torso, legs and feet. In the anime it shows him absorbing the fire, and in the scan above you can see the flames going inside him, well at least past his torso. Ocams Razor would suggest that Ace absorbed the fire like how he did in the anime so it's consistent and nothing goes against it. As the your Logia argument David, each and every Logia differs from each other. None of the Logias are the same aside from being intangible. Each of them have different abilities and traits, Croc can turn people into sand but other Logias can't turn people into elements. Blackbeard can absorb Devil Fruit abilities and the fruit itself. Kuzan can counter his natural Devil Fruit weakness, etc. That isn't an argument you can make. And Ceaser Clown could absorb gas and poison back in Punk Hazzard.
- 3,669
- 1,080
While I cannot say anything for the anime I can draw issue with the manga scans. Ocams razor would suggest that the flames were being absorbed by Ace if the scans showed the flames congregating almost solely around him, my issue with this is that the scans don't depict that. In literally the very next panel (I will post it below) following the one above we see flames between black beard and ace, and if we based our decision solely on artistic presentation I could argue that the flames appear to be creeping towards black beard (and obviously I'd be wrong since he didn't have his fruit active).
In regards to the point that not all logias are the same, I'm aware and agree with that. In fact I wanted to draw attention to it earlier but ultimately chose not to, that was my mistake. But ultimately I stand by my suggestion to search for a precedent we can work off, if for no other reason than this feat is ambiguous as hell and at the very least considering other logias could at least give us somewhere to start, if ultimately we find out later that Aces fruit indeed is the only one that can absorb its element then no harm no foul, it would still be better to be safe than making guesses based on what could be an artistic style.
In regards to the point that not all logias are the same, I'm aware and agree with that. In fact I wanted to draw attention to it earlier but ultimately chose not to, that was my mistake. But ultimately I stand by my suggestion to search for a precedent we can work off, if for no other reason than this feat is ambiguous as hell and at the very least considering other logias could at least give us somewhere to start, if ultimately we find out later that Aces fruit indeed is the only one that can absorb its element then no harm no foul, it would still be better to be safe than making guesses based on what could be an artistic style.
- 2,047
- 778
While I cannot say anything for the anime I can draw issue with the manga scans. Ocams razor would suggest that the flames were being absorbed by Ace if the scans showed the flames congregating almost solely around him, my issue with this is that the scans don't depict that, in literally the very next panel (I will post it below) following the one above we see flames between black beard and ace, and if we based our decision solely on artistic presentation I could argue that the flames appear to be creeping towards black beard (and obviously I'd be wrong since he didn't have his fruit active).
No Occams Razor would indeed suggest Ace absorbed the fire. It happened in the anime and fire doesn't burn that quickly. And I'm not going on the art alone, it's almost like you haven't read the arguments which I'm tempted to say you haven't given that didn't address them. Fire doesn't burn out that quickly and the anime shows Ace absorbing the fire. It's supporting evidence and no you can't say that the fire was creeping towards Blackbeard so I'm not sure why you even brought that up whenever you said it's wrong David. Let me reiterate my points.
So yes with all the evidence and Occams Razor would suggest Ace absorbed the fire. The anime also supports this as well as real life physics. All you have so far is "Art lol" which wasn't my main argument but support. Not to mention your scan is meaningless considering that you didn't use colored scans. So far there's more evidence pointing towards Ace absorbing the fire vs the evidence against him just standing there and the fire burning out ( In a few seconds which makes no sense seeing as how the Mera Mera no Mi burns at a high temperature and has been shown to set things on fire for much much longer. Ace's fight against Jinbe, against Blackbeard, Marineford, and Sabo at Dressrosa. )
In regards to the point that not all logias are the same, I'm aware and agree with that. In fact I wanted to draw attention to it earlier but ultimately chose not to, that was my mistake. But ultimately I stand by my suggestion to search for a precedent we can work off, if for no other reason than this feat is ambiguous as hell and at the very least considering other logias could at least give us somewhere to start, if ultimately we find out later that Aces fruit indeed is the only one that can absorb its element then no harm no foul, it would still be better to be safe than making guesses based on what could be an artistic style.
Stop focusing on artist style, that's not my argument and wasn't my argument to begin with. My argument stems from the anime portrayal and how logically fire doesn't burn that quickly. Not to mention my scans show Ace still being in his Logia state and the fire going into him. And other Logias have absorbed their elements, Ceaser Clown did so back in Punk Hazzard against Luffy. And he did it back in Zou. The feat isn't vague or ambiguous, you're just misinformed and not comprehending the argument. So far you've ignored my other arguments and are stuck on the art which isn't the main focus. You're Logia comparison is also a Fallacy by Association.
No Occams Razor would indeed suggest Ace absorbed the fire. It happened in the anime and fire doesn't burn that quickly. And I'm not going on the art alone, it's almost like you haven't read the arguments which I'm tempted to say you haven't given that didn't address them. Fire doesn't burn out that quickly and the anime shows Ace absorbing the fire. It's supporting evidence and no you can't say that the fire was creeping towards Blackbeard so I'm not sure why you even brought that up whenever you said it's wrong David. Let me reiterate my points.
- Color scans straight up show Ace in his Logia state. His hands, feet, legs and torso are made of fire and we see fire being drawn into his torso.
- Fire doesn't disappear that quickly. The best assumption to make would be that Ace absorbed the fire.
- It's supported by the anime which has Ace absorb the fire.
- Other Logias have absorbed their own elements, mainly Ceaser Clown.
So yes with all the evidence and Occams Razor would suggest Ace absorbed the fire. The anime also supports this as well as real life physics. All you have so far is "Art lol" which wasn't my main argument but support. Not to mention your scan is meaningless considering that you didn't use colored scans. So far there's more evidence pointing towards Ace absorbing the fire vs the evidence against him just standing there and the fire burning out ( In a few seconds which makes no sense seeing as how the Mera Mera no Mi burns at a high temperature and has been shown to set things on fire for much much longer. Ace's fight against Jinbe, against Blackbeard, Marineford, and Sabo at Dressrosa. )
In regards to the point that not all logias are the same, I'm aware and agree with that. In fact I wanted to draw attention to it earlier but ultimately chose not to, that was my mistake. But ultimately I stand by my suggestion to search for a precedent we can work off, if for no other reason than this feat is ambiguous as hell and at the very least considering other logias could at least give us somewhere to start, if ultimately we find out later that Aces fruit indeed is the only one that can absorb its element then no harm no foul, it would still be better to be safe than making guesses based on what could be an artistic style.
Stop focusing on artist style, that's not my argument and wasn't my argument to begin with. My argument stems from the anime portrayal and how logically fire doesn't burn that quickly. Not to mention my scans show Ace still being in his Logia state and the fire going into him. And other Logias have absorbed their elements, Ceaser Clown did so back in Punk Hazzard against Luffy. And he did it back in Zou. The feat isn't vague or ambiguous, you're just misinformed and not comprehending the argument. So far you've ignored my other arguments and are stuck on the art which isn't the main focus. You're Logia comparison is also a Fallacy by Association.
- 3,669
- 1,080
@Rin I'm sorry aren't coloured chapters usually fan-made? If yes then y should we consider them as credible evidence?
That aside, I never presented my arguments as a flippant "Art lol", all I said was that I was dissatisfied that the scans sufficiently depicted Ace absorbing the flames and this was an issue that could easily be misinterpreted if we judged solely based on art, hence me drawing attention to the flames creeping on BB. My entire point was that I was dissatisfied with the supporting evidence and suggested a method I felt would work better. I don't know y u saw the need to pepper ur response with thinly veiled hostility.
And suggesting we search for a precedent has now become a fallacy? Especially since Ace's abilities while distinct aren't wholly unique unto himself?
U know what? Do as u like, I genuinely can't be bothered to present a suggestion if all I'm gonna get is shade.
That aside, I never presented my arguments as a flippant "Art lol", all I said was that I was dissatisfied that the scans sufficiently depicted Ace absorbing the flames and this was an issue that could easily be misinterpreted if we judged solely based on art, hence me drawing attention to the flames creeping on BB. My entire point was that I was dissatisfied with the supporting evidence and suggested a method I felt would work better. I don't know y u saw the need to pepper ur response with thinly veiled hostility.
And suggesting we search for a precedent has now become a fallacy? Especially since Ace's abilities while distinct aren't wholly unique unto himself?
U know what? Do as u like, I genuinely can't be bothered to present a suggestion if all I'm gonna get is shade.
- 2,047
- 778
@David
No those colored scans are official not fan made. The translations aren't official but the coloring is the official colors.
That aside, I never presented my arguments as a flippant "Art lol", all I said was that I was dissatisfied that the scans sufficiently depicted Ace absorbing the flames and this was an issue that could easily be misinterpreted if we judged solely based on art, hence me drawing attention to the flames creeping on BB. My entire point was that I was dissatisfied with the supporting evidence and suggested a method I felt would work better. I don't know y u saw the need to pepper ur response with thinly veiled hostility.
You haven't replied to my other points, all you did was focus on the server while ignoring my other arguments. And your Blackbeard argument doesn't make any sense since he didn't activate his powers yet so you can't use that argument. None of my replies have been hostile, so I don't know where you got that from but if that's how you feel my intent wasn't to be aggressive. You haven't explained why you dislike the supportive evidence despite the supportive evidence being very solid such as other Logias like Ceaser absorbing their elements, real life logic and the anime. All of these are hard proof that Ace absorbed the fire.
And suggesting we search for a precedent has now become a fallacy? Especially since Ace's abilities while distinct aren't wholly unique unto himself?
It's a Fallacy from Association whenever you attempt that say "Other Logias haven't done this before." which is exactly how that fallacy works.
Nobody threw shade at you, this seems like a pretty big overreaction to me.
No those colored scans are official not fan made. The translations aren't official but the coloring is the official colors.
That aside, I never presented my arguments as a flippant "Art lol", all I said was that I was dissatisfied that the scans sufficiently depicted Ace absorbing the flames and this was an issue that could easily be misinterpreted if we judged solely based on art, hence me drawing attention to the flames creeping on BB. My entire point was that I was dissatisfied with the supporting evidence and suggested a method I felt would work better. I don't know y u saw the need to pepper ur response with thinly veiled hostility.
You haven't replied to my other points, all you did was focus on the server while ignoring my other arguments. And your Blackbeard argument doesn't make any sense since he didn't activate his powers yet so you can't use that argument. None of my replies have been hostile, so I don't know where you got that from but if that's how you feel my intent wasn't to be aggressive. You haven't explained why you dislike the supportive evidence despite the supportive evidence being very solid such as other Logias like Ceaser absorbing their elements, real life logic and the anime. All of these are hard proof that Ace absorbed the fire.
And suggesting we search for a precedent has now become a fallacy? Especially since Ace's abilities while distinct aren't wholly unique unto himself?
It's a Fallacy from Association whenever you attempt that say "Other Logias haven't done this before." which is exactly how that fallacy works.
Nobody threw shade at you, this seems like a pretty big overreaction to me.
- 14,575
- 5,876
- Thread starter
- #67
Okay, so there's two things to add then. Two logia users have absorption of their own element.
Next: Mera Mera users regen upgrade.
Next: Mera Mera users regen upgrade.
- 2,047
- 778
I'm not really sure how fire works for Regenerationn tbh so I'm neutral for now
- 14,575
- 5,876
- Thread starter
- #69
Our Regenerationn page states that Mid-High works for vapor, smoke and dust. Correct me if I'm wrong, but fire works in a similar level.
- 4,955
- 3,768
It's true that fire isn't tangible but if it's more similar to smoke, ash or vapor, I'm fine with Mera Mera no Mi users being Mid-High.
- 2,047
- 778
I suppose the regen upgrade is fine then.
- 2,047
- 778
Moving onto Akainu's and Baby 5's regen .
- 31,209
- 27,406
I'm uncertain regarding Baby 5's regen.
She definitely reforms herself into her fully humanoid form after exploding as a missile... but is that really regen? If someone hurt her then she doesn't fix herself up; it looks just like an application of her Devil Fruit which lets her shapeshift between weapons.
So I'd say this is just her shapeshifting back into her default form; not her regenerating from any damage.
She definitely reforms herself into her fully humanoid form after exploding as a missile... but is that really regen? If someone hurt her then she doesn't fix herself up; it looks just like an application of her Devil Fruit which lets her shapeshift between weapons.
So I'd say this is just her shapeshifting back into her default form; not her regenerating from any damage.
- 762
- 438
I also agree with upgrading the Mera Mera no Mi's Regenerationn.
For Akainu, this is what Low-High is about "The ability to regenerate from a very small piece of your body, such as a puddle or drop of blood, or even something as small as a single cell.". Basically Akainu's magma is liquid and thus is it so far off that he can be reduce to a puddle? I agree with the upgrade.
As for Baby 5, I agree she should get Regenerationn as well.
For Akainu, this is what Low-High is about "The ability to regenerate from a very small piece of your body, such as a puddle or drop of blood, or even something as small as a single cell.". Basically Akainu's magma is liquid and thus is it so far off that he can be reduce to a puddle? I agree with the upgrade.
As for Baby 5, I agree she should get Regenerationn as well.
- 14,575
- 5,876
- Thread starter
- #76
That's being blown to pieces. It's like the logia regen and I think we should treat it the same way as applicable only in Paramecia form.
- 31,209
- 27,406
But for logia's we've seen it happen when somebody else blows them up and they reform.Calaca Vs said:
Baby 5 is blowing herself up as a missile.
- 14,575
- 5,876
- Thread starter
- #78
You're probably right, but I'll let others decide.
- 4,955
- 3,768
It could be limited in that while transformed into a weapon, she will not take any damage inflicted as a result of the weapon's impact, such as detonating while in the state of an explosive.
Basically if transform into a bomb and explode, she will not suffer any harm and regenerate from the pieces.
The Regenerationn doesn't seem to work if she not in full weapon form - https://mangalife.us/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-682-page-10.html and https://mangalife.us/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-771-page-9.html
Basically if transform into a bomb and explode, she will not suffer any harm and regenerate from the pieces.
The Regenerationn doesn't seem to work if she not in full weapon form - https://mangalife.us/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-682-page-10.html and https://mangalife.us/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-771-page-9.html
- 14,575
- 5,876
- Thread starter
- #80
Well, Shapeshifting seems to fit more, but I don't know if that covers the fact that Baby 5 is blown to pieces and most of her body might be obliterated.
Similar threads
