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Massive Davoth Overhaul (DOOM)

Gewsbumpz_dude

Gewsbumpz_dude

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Ok so, I have two main issues with our current Davoth page. Those being that most of his powers have zero explanations and that his speed only goes over his reactions. I've been working on a big rewrite that fixes both of these problems and add more onto the profile like new hax, a key for his incorporeal/weakened state and a tab called "demon powers". Which is basically a big list of powers from other demons used via Hell Energy, Davoth could be capable of doing the same since Hell (the source of all Hell Energy) is just a part of Davoth's power, meaning that the demons are basically using his energy to perform said abilities.

If you have anything you would like to add and discuss over, do it now.

Links:
Current Davoth page

My rework

Approve: 7

Disapprove:

Neutral:
 
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I have to keep up with a lot of interesting CRTs this day, huh? You already know that I agree with this.
 
Happy to finally have you onboard, perhaps while you are at it you can elaborate on some of the abilities that were originally on the page. Mainly Vibration Manipulation, Void Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Magma Manipulation and Necromancy.
 
Gewsbumpz_dude said:
Happy to finally have you onboard, perhaps while you are at it you can elaborate on some of the abilities that were originally on the page. Mainly Vibration Manipulation, Void Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Magma Manipulation and Necromancy.
Click to expand...
I can't find the original thread, but I think these are the examples.
  • Abilities
    • Earth and Magma Manipulation (Transformed Hell and the Earth while also raising seas of magma)
    • Void Manipulation (Davoth molded the Seraphs from the void)
    • Vibration Manipulation (Shook Urdak following the death of the Kahn Maykr)
    • Necromancy (Should have the same skill if not superior to Arch-Vile Necromancy)
    • Gravity Manipulation (Created floating structures in Hell and on Earth)
  • Resistances
    • Vibration Manipulation (Resists the rapid multi-vibrations of the Combat Shotgun Full-Auto Mod)
    • Magma Manipulation (Should have the same resistance as the lower demons)
 
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I think the rework is much better than the current one, so I agree with applying the changes and using the new profile.
 
I fail to see how is it supposed to be really vague and metaphoric and flowery language when the two scans state what happened. Davoth told Khan Maykr that he was gonna send Doomguy to **** up her entire race, she makes a machine that can predict every possibility and future of the universe, and it turns out in all of those timelines she and her race get clapped by Doomguy. It's obvious, it gets straight to the point. How is this supposed to be vague and flowery language is beyond me.

Edit: What Gews said.
 
There are actually two codex entries for that and they are both needed in order for it to make sense. The first one linked, The Tainted Prophecy, goes over how Davoth tricked The Maykrs into believing that there is a “chosen one” that will destroy her and The Maykrs to get revenge. In the second codex, The Divinity Machine, we see that there is obviously more then just a lie going on with Davoth’s “chosen one” plan since The Maykr God-mind, a device that was made to see all infinite timelines, picks up that there is one singular constant despite the infinite possibilities and endless variables, that one constant being the destruction of The Maykrs by The Doom Slayer. Hence his Fate Manipulation.

Edit: What Shmooply said.
 
I also failed to see how this is fate manipulation, did he actually manipulating it or it is just you guys interpret it your way????. When predicting every future turn out to be fate manipulation, Davoth did "sent" Doom Slayer to doom her race in all timeline, but how that translateing into fate manipulation, you can influence events in many way to get the desired result, how all of that turn out to be fate manipulation now???. All and all no evidence of him actually manipulating fate itself, you guy just want to view it as fate manipulation.
Also, if he can manipulating fate, how he did not do the same to Doomguys to literally "fk" the guy to win the battle, or don't tell me that Doom Slayer resist Fate Manip
 
Vietthai96 said:
Like what, nothing indicated he actually manipulating fate itself, the entire paragraph very vague, metaphor and flowery
Click to expand...
The reason is because he made the Slayer for revenge against the Maykrs for sealing him away, and in every possible timeline this is the only consistent outcome. The ability itself is iffy since we really don't know how it works and it definitely isn't combat applicable considering he never uses it for fighting literally anyone, but there's definitely some kind of power there so we settled on limited fate manipulation. If you can think of something that fits it better then you are more than welcome to suggest it.
 
How is it interpetation? The scans literally say what happens, we aren't pulling berserk powerups out of our asses. Yea, you can influence events in many ways to get the results you want, but Davoth is literally a god-like being and the scans say that Doomguy was created to be the Dark Lord's chosen one. Also- remind me what's wrong with Doomguy resisting fate hax? Bias?
 
Shmooply said:
How is it interpetation? The scans literally say what happens, we aren't pulling berserk powerups out of our asses. Yea, you can influence events in many ways to get the results you want, but Davoth is literally a god-like being and the scans say that Doomguy was created to be the Dark Lord's chosen one. Also- remind me what's wrong with Doomguy resisting fate hax? Bias?
Click to expand...
And being God-like is a reason for fate manipulation, really???. I can understand why you guys came up with fate manipulation because of the paragraph, prophesied, etc......but honestly, i don;t think so, unless there is some other evidence about he actually manipulating fate itself
Axxtentacle said:
The reason is because he made the Slayer for revenge against the Maykrs for sealing him away, and in every possible timeline this is the only consistent outcome. The ability itself is iffy since we really don't know how it works and it definitely isn't combat applicable considering he never uses it for fighting literally anyone, but there's definitely some kind of power there so we settled on limited fate manipulation. If you can think of something that fits it better then you are more than welcome to suggest it.
Click to expand...
either remove it or....actually i did think about possibly minor fate manip because of the vagueness of the current evidences, or minor probability manip. Problem is, we don't know he actually manipulating them with his power, or use his influence and presences across timeline to make a long ass chain of events
 
We figured that a weird, limited fate manip was an easier assumption than that, which is why it was there. Honestly it might not be a power of Davoth, it could be some weird fate manip or something similar for the Slayer himself, as like a Possibly.

Maybe we split it into a vote of what people think is better?
 
Vietthai96 said:
either remove it or....actually i did think about possibly minor fate manip because of the vagueness of the current evidences, or minor probability manip. Problem is, we don't know he actually manipulating them with his power, or use his influence and presences across timeline to make a long ass chain of events
Click to expand...
It can't just be a chain of events. This was done while he was sealed away, removed of his physical body, without it he cannot interact with the physical realm, only being able to talk to those in the physical realm like The Khan Maykr when it comes to directly affecting physical entities. Which clearly isn't just what is going on here since The Doom Slayer, across all infinite timelines, completely negating all possibilities and variables, ended up ******* over The Maykrs across the entire multiverse.

Also abilities don't have to be explicitly laid out in order for characters to have them.
 
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After thinking about it, I retract my latest comment. I'm not seeing how this wouldn't definitively be fate manipulation since it's the simplest explanation.
 
Firestorm808 said:
I can't find the original thread, but I think these are the examples.
  • Abilities
    • Earth and Magma Manipulation (Transformed Hell and the Earth while also raising seas of magma)
    • Void Manipulation (Davoth molded the Seraphs from the void)
    • Vibration Manipulation (Shook Urdak following the death of the Kahn Maykr)
    • Necromancy (Should have the same skill if not superior to Arch-Vile Necromancy)
    • Gravity Manipulation (Created floating structures in Hell and on Earth)
  • Resistances
    • Vibration Manipulation (Resists the rapid multi-vibrations of the Combat Shotgun Full-Auto Mod)
    • Magma Manipulation (Should have the same resistance as the lower demons)
Click to expand...
Much appreciated. Me and Axx while discussing the powers were confused since there wasn't any reasoning, particularly with Void Manipulation. At one point during the making of the rewrite, Void Manipulation was listed because he was going to destroy all of creation, reduced it to nothing ("unmaking" it as he put it), which was thought to be not good enough reasoning so it was removed later on.
 
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Either way, it wasn't Davoth. Hugo confirmed that on stream and that's one of his statements that isn't contradicted.

Plus it doesn't make sense for Davoth to yell like that when that's literally him getting his revenge on the Maykrs lmao
 
Vietthai96 said:
And being God-like is a reason for fate manipulation, really???. I can understand why you guys came up with fate manipulation because of the paragraph, prophesied, etc......but honestly, i don;t think so, unless there is some other evidence about he actually manipulating fate itself

either remove it or....actually i did think about possibly minor fate manip because of the vagueness of the current evidences, or minor probability manip. Problem is, we don't know he actually manipulating them with his power, or use his influence and presences across timeline to make a long ass chain of events
Click to expand...
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Probability_Manipulation

There is also possibility manipulation as this seems to suit this particular instance it seems.
 
Also i'm down to leave it to a vote for fate manipulation or probability manipulation, depending on what you guys want. I'm neutral.
 
Shmooply said:
I fail to see how is it supposed to be really vague and metaphoric and flowery language when the two scans state what happened. Davoth told Khan Maykr that he was gonna send Doomguy to **** up her entire race, she makes a machine that can predict every possibility and future of the universe, and it turns out in all of those timelines she and her race get clapped by Doomguy. It's obvious, it gets straight to the point. How is this supposed to be vague and flowery language is beyond me.

Edit: What Gews said.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, is this a verse mechanic and I mean tied to the cosmology side of things, not just what Davoth does for that matter?

If it is a absolute constant where Doomslayer (Yeah, I still calling him that since 2016 and Doom Eternal) isn’t changed, then I do wonder about it.
 
Yeah I kinda have to wonder whether we'd take that as Davoth literally altering probability to do that or if it's just something with Slayer
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Out of curiosity, is this a verse mechanic and I mean tied to the cosmology side of things, not just what Davoth does for that matter?
Click to expand...
I mean, he made the cosmology (as he is the creator deity of the multiverse), and he made the doom slayer to get revenge on the Kahn Maykr. The simplest conclusion is that it had something to do with him, though whether it was him or something he gave the Doom Slayer, or something the doom slayer got on his own, etc is up for debate.
 
Other than the fate stuff i said before, i'm agree with the new profile, look way better than current one.

Also about Void Manipulation, is it actual void or just something metaphor here
 
Vietthai96 said:
Other than the fate stuff i said before, i'm agree with the new profile, look way better than current one.

Also about Void Manipulation, is it actual void or just something metaphor here
Click to expand...
It is referring to actual voids. There are multiple scans that suggest or say that there is a void that exists outside and predates the multiverse. The most obvious one being this scan in Book of the Seraphs - Part I.
 
Axxtentacle said:
I mean, he made the cosmology (as he is the creator deity of the multiverse), and he made the doom slayer to get revenge on the Kahn Maykr. The simplest conclusion is that it had something to do with him, though whether it was him or something he gave the Doom Slayer, or something the doom slayer got on his own, etc is up for debate.
Click to expand...
According to Gews, there are entries about Doomslayer being the “chosen one” so it is likely given to Doomguy so not sure if it is exactly Davoth himself.
Gewsbumpz_dude said:
There are actually two codex entries for that and they are both needed in order for it to make sense. The first one linked, The Tainted Prophecy, goes over how Davoth tricked The Maykrs into believing that there is a “chosen one” that will destroy her and The Maykrs to get revenge. In the second codex, The Divinity Machine, we see that there is obviously more then just a lie going on with Davoth’s “chosen one” plan since The Maykr God-mind, a device that was made to see all infinite timelines, picks up that there is one singular constant despite the infinite possibilities and endless variables, that one constant being the destruction of The Maykrs by The Doom Slayer. Hence his Fate Manipulation.

Edit: What Shmooply said.
Click to expand...
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
According to Gews, there are entries about Doomslayer being the “chosen one” so it is likely given to Doomguy so not sure if it is exactly Davoth himself.
Click to expand...
That "chosen one" prophecy we see in said entries were because of Davoth, they were part of his plan.
 
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