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Massive dark souls Downgrades.

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Stormdrake's storm is an exception,NK can destroy giant statues by sending a storm wave(he can destroy them by walking also,but still).You can literally walk in that storm.+Messages before bell can be used as some kind of proof.
 
I agree with the Storm Drake. Almost every single message is a hint to DS. Also I kinda questioning this but fire came from below. Who made the sun that is above us if the first flame came from below?
 
Reinhardthrowhisspear said:
I'm quite knowledgeable about DS, and The Sun=First Flame. To simply put, the world was downright gray before first flame appears. No life, no death, no kingdoms, just suffering and dragons. When the humans started to discover first flame, it became the sun, lighting them. It is a legit star.
Click to expand...
Huh? Post scans of first flame being actual sun.

first flame just appeared, it never says anything about it being a sun.

"No kingdoms"

Huh? You can see a load of silver knights standing behind Gwyn when he got the soul.

No life?

Wtf? How did lords find souls then? Did they just appear out of nowhere?
 
The Everlasting said:
We use storms to determine AP because you need energy to be able to generate that storm.

I'm sorry, but that's how we do it.
Click to expand...
An energy of a storm can't be compared to an energy of an entire country and it's landmass. A landmass is far denser and wider.

This logic makes no sense. I might as well have an energy to create a building sized bubble, that means I can now destroy buildings right?
 
Just watch the cinematic.

It was just gray and fog before. No anything. Just suffering and dragons.

Yes, it is. That is why DS people praise the sun.

There was no kingdom yet before the dragons were defeated by Gwyn and Seath the Scaleless. It was just soliders.

Before the first flame you were like an undead, you can't be called alive not dead. Watch the cinematic.
 
If we're going to be beaning dark souls (Which I don't have any real knowledge of, I'm sorry if this sounds blind), I might try to contribute to it going off of this statement:

"The sun is still present in places like the Undead Burg"

Judging by what happens at 0:35 in the video, it slowly turns from day to night, I might as well assume that they could have possibly rotated the Earth in that timeframe. It reaches night time at 0:50, which means 15 seconds have passed.

Rotating day to night would mean that the Earth would've rotated 180 degrees, or one pi radian. The feat happens in 15 seconds, as stated before.

pi / 15 = 0.20943951 radians per second

Moment of inertia of the Earth on its Equatorial axis (to lowball it) is 8.008e+37.

Formula for calculating rotational kinetic energy is (1/2) * (Moment of inertia) times (Rad/s)^2

(1/2) * 8.008e+37 * 0.20943951^2 = 1.75635093e36 joules, or 419.777946941 Yottatons

Large Planet level if we lowball the sun feat.

Skimming through several prior posts, people were talking about plantery storms, so I guess this could support that. This also supports one of Sheev's posts:

"Having the power to keep the flame lit for a millenium (what Gwyn did) would mean keeping the sun lit for a millenium, since the First Flame keeps the sun in existence, though to do that would mean having Large Planet AP"

So, based on a few posts (Correct me if I am wrong), Tier 5 seems like a possibility if we downgrade it.
 
I want to admitt that sacrifising yourself to extend the age of fire will not give you a powr up.It is just that the power of your soul is used to maofest the Sun.

There are a couple of charscters that have soul strong enough to do that.
 
Reinhardthrowhisspear said:
Just watch the cinematic.

It was just gray and fog before. No anything. Just suffering and dragons.

Yes, it is. That is why DS people praise the sun.

There was no kingdom yet before the dragons were defeated by Gwyn and Seath the Scaleless. It was just soliders.

Before the first flame you were like an undead, you can't be called alive not dead. Watch the cinematic.
Click to expand...
If there was no sun everything would be dark af you wouldn't see a thing.

Huh? Just because you can't see sunlight through a fog doesn't mean the sun wasn't there already, you can't assume something wasn't there when another thing could be blocking it's reach.

It even says the so called age of fire began after the dragons were foddorized, and the the whole area known as ash lake is beyond blight town and next to a dark af tomb of Giants.

Post in game scans on this thread if you want me to believe it.
 
Huh? Post scans of first flame being actual sun.

first flame just appeared, it never says anything about it being a sun.

"No kingdoms"

Huh? You can see a load of silver knights standing behind Gwyn when he got the soul.

No life?

Wtf? How did lords find souls then? Did they just appear out of nowhere?

First Flame's state directly affects the sun, as seen in Dark Souls 3 after defeating 3 Lords of Cinder.

It's not the sun, but it is directly connected to it

That took place after Gwyn found the soul, that whole posturing thing was just to make a cool shot establishing Gwyn

The Hollows that found the Flame were "alive" in the same,sense as the dragons, only far less powerful, they only became truly alive after they found souls and the concepts of life and death were put upon them.
 
The whole thing about Dark Souls is Duality. If there is light, there is dark. If there is a life, there is death. There is nothing before. Nothing. Just dragons, and the humanoids. Age of fire began after the age of the ancients, where the cycle was kick started, it is a basic lore of DS.
 
The concepts of of kught and dark didn't exist before the first flame, either, hence why it's grey, a middle ground. Same as how the dragons and the Hollows were just "sorta" alive.
 
Unholy Bindings said:
As I've said before, and I'll say it again, a storm of a certain size doesn't destory landmass on the same size. The only way a storm would have the same DC is if it would release lightning from every part of it or release force strong enough to do so. When has a storm been strong enough to level entire towns? Much less countries?
Click to expand...
And now for Lightbusters guide on how to completely miss the point. SMFH.
 
First flame is a catalyst. As long as it's lit the age of fire will not end, I already said this.

I also repeatedly pointed out that they are never mentioned to power the sun itself.

"It's not the sun, but it is directly connected to it"

"It's not the sun"=>this and the fact the witch couldn't create the flame proves star level dark souls is false.
 
"And now for Lightbusters guide on how to completely miss the point. SMFH."


And I'm still here, waiting for nonexistent scans because the whole thing is headcannon.
 
Unholy Bindings said:
"And now for Lightbusters guide on how to completely miss the point. SMFH."


And I'm still here, waiting for nonexistent scans because the whole thing is headcannon.
Click to expand...
Um...finding the Kinetic Energy for moving a certain mass is hardly headcannon. 90% of the calcs on this will are headcannon. Doesn't make them wrong.
 
Um...finding the Kinetic Energy for moving a certain mass is hardly headcannon. 90% of the calcs on this will are headcannon. Doesn't make them wrong.

I am repeating myself and you all cling to your flawed logic. forming together clouds is hardly impressive when you are talking about destroying a country's mass. I already gave an example and got a more ******** answer in return. Attack power measures how much your power can destroy, creating a big storm has nothing to do with attack power, this isn't rocket science. And Like I said, it's just weather manipulation,

Let me give you an example you will understand.

If I can create a planet, that does make me planet leve, because I created an entire planet with mass and all the shit it needs.

If I create a storm that cloaks a country, that is not country level, because it's merely a storm covering an area of this size, and a storm would require less energy to create than a whole country.
 
Dude, you're not even arguing about Dark Souls at this point. If you want to argue about the way this wiki calcs storms, take it up with the calculations department or like the questions and answers forum. As it stands, if the KE required to create a storm is country level, it's country level. Cease this now.
 
Sir Ovens said:
Dude, you're not even arguing about Dark Souls at this point. If you want to argue about the way this wiki calcs storms, take it up with the calculations department or like the questions and answers forum. As it stands, if the KE required to create a storm is country level, it's country level. Cease this now.
Click to expand...
Well not always counntry level, but yeah, basically what you said.
 
Unholy Bindings said:
First flame is a catalyst. As long as it's lit the age of fire will not end, I already said this.

I also repeatedly pointed out that they are never mentioned to power the sun itself.

"It's not the sun, but it is directly connected to it"

"It's not the sun"=>this and the fact the witch couldn't create the flame proves star level dark souls is false.
Click to expand...
Except for the fact that, DS doesn't give a shit about their lore and just leave you there wandering around searching for evidence to find your own interpretation of the lore. You didn't play DS, did you?

Ughhhhhh, no. It is not the catalyst. First flame is the center of age of fire. No questions about it.

There was never a "sun" in DS verse. The light floating around is just the first flame's light.

Yup. She was failed. But there is no evidence suggesting that it is because humans can't minic it. In fact, in DS3, there is a special kind of fire Aldrich's men uses to fight you.
 
Yeah it is. You move the mass of the clouds. Storms have mass to them. Like several million tons lowball. You're summoning that mass over multiple kilometers. You're freaking blind if you can't realize that wouldn't take energy. This is how we do things. Either suck it up, make a CRT, or get out. We aren't going to cater just because 1 person dislikes how things work.
 
Dude what's up with the insults and threats. Jesus Christ the man is just giving his opinion and for some reason everytime someone does he has to face threats and insults. The funny thing is most of you aren't even Admins and I'm GLAD you aren't l. You're behaving like children.

If you think he is wrong simply correct him. All the other foolishness is uncalled for.

@Unholy Bindings I would advise seeking answers from certain admins who will actually have a dialogue and maybe some calc members. Unfortunately the community of full of brats who love to belittle over the Internet.
 
Except for the fact that, DS doesn't give a shit about their lore and just leave you there wandering around searching for evidence to find your own interpretation of the lore. You didn't play DS, did you?

Ughhhhhh, no. It is not the catalyst. First flame is the center of age of fire. No questions about it.

There was never a "sun" in DS verse. The light floating around is just the first flame's light.

Yup. She was failed. But there is no evidence suggesting that it is because humans can't minic it. In fact, in DS3, there is a special kind of fire Aldrich's men uses to fight you.

Hahaha... I played all three games and In my life I have never heard more ridiculous joke such as stellar dark souls.

Where the sun came from, or how it started was never really my point, my point was fuelig the sun doesn't give you the power to destroy it.

I could say you are making lore up yourself. For example saying the concept of life and death didn't exist when seath was an albino dragon born before the fire and he was mortal.

The first flame is the cause, and the sun is the effect. What happens to the flame happens to the sun, if it fades, so does sun and it's light.

All you need to do is fuel the flame, not the sun, the sun will shine if the flame will burn, when has it ever been said the flame will send the given energy into the sun?

Start posting scans already.
 
1.DS isn't star lvl,manifesting a "sun" can not scale to their ordinary AP.

2.And if we go by that logic, Seath,Kalameet,NK,Nito,Manus and others should also get upgraded to 4-C since their souls are not weaker than the those who linked the first flame.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Storm Feats scale to AP because of Kinetic Energy. Get over it.
Click to expand...
Yeah yeah, I can drag clouds around the sky, this means I'm strong enough to affect an entire country along with it's mass, wait... Not just affect I can destroy it, makes complete sense.

Ohhh yeah, still no scans of stormdrake actually creating the storm.

Because a strorm wasn't summoned right after the bell rung, and the guy who already posted above about the danger message.
 
^Stormdrake summoned a storm,and it began as soon as ashen one rang the bell.

I played DS3 for about 800h,so i remember clearly.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Clouds have a deceptively high-amount of mass. To move such mass at Massively Hypersonic speeds require a fuckton of speed. It is basic physics.
Click to expand...
"To move such mass at Massively Hypersonic speeds require a fuckton of speed."

Ohhh yeah, it's no longer attack power, now we are talking about speed already.

Basic physichs you are talking about?

I could move a heavy rock, but I sure couldn't destroy it.

You do realize Clouds don't compare to landmass. An energy to destroy something needs to be far greater than energy than merely drags around something that is not close to the scale of that which must be destroyed.
 
Dzhindzholia said:
^Stormdrake summoned a storm,and it began as soon as ashen one rang the bell.

I played DS3 for about 800h,so i remember clearly.
Click to expand...
except there is no confirmation that Stormdrake did it, because when haven't bells doen anything in prvious souls games.

In DKS1 ringing both bells opens sens fortress.

In dks2 it opnes the passage to the roof of Belfry Luna.

So how does this Bell not summon a storm, or how does the drake do it when there is no proof to back it up?
 
Unholy, do you even know what Kinetic Energy is? The faster you move something, the more energy is required.

In the case of moving a big rock, throwing said rock at Relativistic speeds take more energy than to destroy it.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Unholy, do you even know what Kinetic Energy is? The faster you move something, the more energy is required.

In the case of moving a big rock, throwing said rock at Relativistic speeds take more energy than to destroy it.
Click to expand...
except that you are moving clouds, and claiming that you can bust a country because they span across such range.

Such attacks can't even be performed by stormdrake, it's an outlier, not even stated to be performed by the very same guy everyone claims.

If the drake dragged a storm with force powerfull enough to bust a country there would be nothing left of Archdragon peak, because everyone would die and everything would be in ruin.
 
"Such attacks can't even be performed by stormdrake, it's an outlier, not even stated to be performed by the very same guy everyone claims.

If the drake dragged a storm with force powerfull enough to bust a country there would be nothing left of Archdragon peak, because everyone would die and everything would be in ruin."

1.Stormdrake created a storm,NK abosrbed Stormdrakes Soul after that,so he absorbed his powers and abilities.

2.Messages before the bell warn Ashen One that nothing will remain if the bell tolled.

I think you should drop KE staff here,it is not the right page to discuss it and calc group members are knowledgeble and know their work.
 
In conclusion.

1.DS isn't star lvl,manifesting a "sun" can not scale to their ordinary AP.There is no actual sun.

2.And if we go by that logic, Seath,Kalameet,NK,Nito,Manus and others should also get upgraded to 4-C since their souls are not weaker than the those who linked the first flame.

We either upgrade characters with strong souls to 4-C either downgrade the whole verse.

The downgrade is better in that case,imo.
 
Gwyn is stated to have the ultimate soul and is visibly stronger than every other character in the first game even in his withered age as the Lord of Cinder. They don't scale.
 
Kalameet is stated to be a threat to even Prime Anor Londo.

NK is the strongest character visibly,+he has the soul of stormdrake.

The difference between NK and Gwyn should not be that much,i guess it is minimum due to Stormdrakes soul.
 
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