DaMonkeMan
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I'd chalk this up to Kaido underestimating them as usual, he's done it before after all.
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Massacre Solider vs Oni
- Thread starter That_moron2
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@TheMonkeMan & @Eminiteable Sorry does this work?
Not sure if Base Kaido(no Hao or Drunk boosts) could stop a hit intented to kill Dragon Momo. Momo's durability scales to his AP if we compare him to other dragons.
That was a non serious drunk Kaido, not Kaido using Shuron Hakke/Drunken Modes fighting style. Firstly drunk Kaido was way farther from the castle making it quite easier for Shinobu to react. Secondly, she did break the ground below her before base Kaido could reach her/Momo.
Base Luffy~Normal Hybrid Kaido. His Laughing Drunk's speed suprised Luffy & his other forms could fight with G2/4
She calls it blunder bagua yet Page 1 comments that hit her really hard. Ulti could've said it out of anger as usual.
Like he didn't do anything to defend himself when the trio Supernova attacked him the 1st time?
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DaMonkeMan
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Yeah the link works now. Great points btw.
Eminiteable
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Whether or not it would have truly killed him is unknown, but Base Kaidou being above Dragon Momo's AP is legimtate.
Fair enough with Shinobu.
Some states may amp his speed like laughing drunk but it's shown to be inconsistent as other times base Luffy still is shown relative & Gear 2nd blitzes. I'll maybe go into more detail later.
Possibly, main point here is that she reacted to it even when she wasn't aware it was coming.
Gear 2nd Luffy at this time was capable of blitzing Ulti & even when he knew the attack was coming & tried using future Sight to dodge it failed.
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Why are we arguing over Kaidou's stats amps?
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Has @Eminiteable voted yet?
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After Kaido & BM Hao dueled for 3 days neither did visible damage each other. Does Base Kaido with no haki even have enough AP to make his Dragon self grunt?
She turned around before Yamato did the TB. She could've sensed her presence seeing how they were actively searching for her.
The same G2, you scaled>>Ulti reflexes, got his attacks blocked by Yamato despite him putting more effort & yet you scale Utli's reactions to the TB??
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What says that he put more effort, and who says that the "effort" made him any faster?
DaMonkeMan
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Him using Armament and Gear 3rd
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Don't forget him being pissed & saying multiple times he had no time for this even when he was't using G3.
Nobody. He had no reason to fight any slower either.
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So if he was the exact same speed (as we have no reason to assume that Luffy as fighting slower or faster against Yamato than he was against Ulti), then why does this matter?
Also, can't we just scale Yamato's reactions to her own Thunder Bagua?
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My problem was how he was scaling Ulti's reactions to the TB despite Yamato's normal combat speed matching G2.
Dunno tbh?
DaMonkeMan
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Kachon, ya didn't need to ping me when Fireld already covered your points.
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What? You both mentioned 2 completely different things.
DaMonkeMan
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I don't care that much lol. No need to apologize.
But like, he countered your points, and you saw me like his comment ( thus I agree ) so there wasn't a need to go straight to my comment to say I was off track with it.
I'll drop this, though. I'm busy trying to get these stomp matches people made with Sans closed, and I don't need to start another war with you.
DaMonkeMan
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Eminiteable
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Sorry for the late response.
Another thing to note about that encounter is that it was a gear 3rd + 2nd strike which is inevitably going to be slower than 2nd alone, and we see when they start matching each other Luffy goes back to base rather than use gear 2nd.
Ulti in base was also shown to be somewhat relative to Base Yamato, showing that Base Yamato's speed isn't at the level of gear 2nd.
Probably, Kid did something similar with his punk Gibson he just didn't leave any visible damage. Momo's feat is very likely weaker than Kid's as his was done with piercing damage yet failed to do any visible damage while Kid's was blunt force.
Thunder Bagua was already active most likely in the manga and the anime shows this as well, with Bagua techniques they typically don't say the attack name until after they've moved past and struck their opponent.
It's possible for Yamato to block that hit without being relative/equal to Gear 2nd's speed, all it requires is for her base to have reaction speed relative to gear 2nd.
Another thing to note about that encounter is that it was a gear 3rd + 2nd strike which is inevitably going to be slower than 2nd alone, and we see when they start matching each other Luffy goes back to base rather than use gear 2nd.
Ulti in base was also shown to be somewhat relative to Base Yamato, showing that Base Yamato's speed isn't at the level of gear 2nd.
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That doesn't prove Base Kaido no haki can do that tho. I'm ok with Punk Slam*>Momo's bite.
Since you brought up the anime, Ulti reacts to her random screaming. When the kanabo emits electricity/starts activating TB, then Ulti's eye is frozen while the Kanabo still moved.
She's changing the kanabo's position several times to block consecutive strikes & blocked a punch with a kick, how isn't this combat speed?
He still has G2 steam.
Base Ulti is relative to Yamato's speed casue Yamato was blocking her?
Eminiteable
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His Punk Rotten "form" which performed that feat was completely overpowered by a strike from Big Mom w/Napoleon who is equal to Base Kaidou.
I brought up both as they both show her react to Yamato mid swing, the attack was already in progress when Ulti reacted as shown by everyone else moving in slow motion and the fact Yamato is literally attacking as Ulti looks at her.
This is base Luffy, while there is dust from the strikes/speed it isn't smoke produced by Gear 2nd as I'll go into now:She's changing the kanabo's position several times to block consecutive strikes & blocked a punch with a kick, how isn't this combat speed?
He still has G2 steam.
Here's some examples of Luffy using Gear 2nd, smoke trails off his body:
Here are some examples of dust just appearing in combat:
Was referring to this moment.
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Tbf she used Ikoku Sovereignty which IIRC is a special 3-Homie move that is above her normal power.
Even post-Udon Luffy got the **** out of the way when Big Mom fired it at him.
Eminiteable
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Idk what made you think that, Ikoku sovereignty is just a flying strike using her elbaf swordsmanship with Napoleon alone.
Idk why I think base Luffy dodging is supposed to be more impressive than whatever Base Kaidou can do.
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Sorry, was thinking of her Maser Cannon
I mean, Post-Udon Luffy did take hits even in base from Big Mom and Kaido, but I see your point
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The sounds effects in that clip are so ******* bad, shit sounds like a discount version of dragon ball super.
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She didn't overpowered, she outright blasted it. That shows how that "form" lacks good durability. The Kaifus destroyed it(with Kid saying it's made out of junk anyway) while Killer blades easily reflect even tho Punk Rotten made Kaido scream while Killer's blades couldn't even make him flinch
OKThis is base Luffy, while there is dust from the strikes/speed it isn't smoke produced by Gear 2nd as I'll go into now:
Here's some examples of Luffy using Gear 2nd, smoke trails off his body:
Here are some examples of dust just appearing in combat:
Further support for that just being base Luffy is that visually when Luffy fights in Gear 2nd his attacks aren't visible due to the visual effect of his speed (even when used against opponent's faster than him) yet here it's similar to just base fighting.
Still looks like blocking like with Luffy. If she was fighting back or being serious, she would've knocked her down like with Drake who's stronger than Ulti & was guarding with both weapons.
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Eminiteable
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Fair enough, I suppose a far more direct comparison than Kid & using Big Mom would be this: the scabbard with their piercing attacks made Kaidou scream and actually cut into him, yet Kaidou later in base alone effortlessly overpowered them.
Regarding the killer & Kid point. Kid trying to compress Base Kaidou's insides with the same form barely made him react while Killer made Kaidou's neck throb in pain from his hit.
Looks a bit different than when she wa shown blocking considering the multiple impact strikes, unless I'm wrong the anime also shows this as a clash rathe than simple blocking.
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I mean, Slam Gibson was just Kidd slamming down Kaido, and he ******* roared in pain when he got slammed, and complimented Kidd alongside Law and Luffy as having found a way to hurt him.
Eminiteable
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Okay idk about him roaring in pain, he said "Gwah". He got a reaction out of him at least.
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Is that in the official translation?
I could've sworn he roared "Aaaargh!".
Either way, he admitted that all 3 had found ways to hurt him.
Eminiteable
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Yes it's the official.
By Compacting his insides.
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Has @Eminiteable voted?
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Anyway I vote Killer.
DaMonkeMan
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Because it IS.
Lol.
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No derailing.
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BUMP
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AP: Killer deflected Tatsumaki Kaifu's from Kaido, which did notable damage to G5 Luffy and forced Law to dodge. They should also be as strong as his normal Kaifu's, which made Law dodge them as well and made G4 Luffy dodge.
Base Yamato downscales from Hybrid Kaido via blocking a hit from him, which should make Killer about as strong as Yamato's base.
However, she has Hao Infusion (which matched Hao Infused Hybrid Kaido even when she was in base) and Zoan forms, so those give her the AP advantage.
Speed: Base Yamato and Killer both kept up with the Yonko, but Yamato has Zoan amps and Thunder Bagua. So she wins here too.
Durability: Hybrid Yamato took 5 consecutive Hao Infused Hybrid attacks from an enraged Kaido and was relatively fine. Her Zoan form lets her win durability as well.
Her ice attacks also let her dominate from a range.
Still voting Yamato.
Base Yamato downscales from Hybrid Kaido via blocking a hit from him, which should make Killer about as strong as Yamato's base.
However, she has Hao Infusion (which matched Hao Infused Hybrid Kaido even when she was in base) and Zoan forms, so those give her the AP advantage.
Speed: Base Yamato and Killer both kept up with the Yonko, but Yamato has Zoan amps and Thunder Bagua. So she wins here too.
Durability: Hybrid Yamato took 5 consecutive Hao Infused Hybrid attacks from an enraged Kaido and was relatively fine. Her Zoan form lets her win durability as well.
Her ice attacks also let her dominate from a range.
Still voting Yamato.
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Base weakened Hybrid Kaidou lol. So Killer's base A.P is greater
When? Zoan forms do give the overall advantage though.
Yamato's base doesn't scale to Yonko speed, when they blocked the attack Kaidou was meters away. Zoan forms are equal, Thunder Bagua greater. I'd add though that Killer's acrobatics can give him a solid way to dodge straight forward Thunder Bagua.
Yamato was shown to be out like a light after those 5 attacks in the latest episode.
One easy to predict ice attack doesn't give huge range advantage.
