Masadaverse Discussion thread 29

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

I wonder if we will ever learn how the Throne was created. I doubt Masada will just do that Low SiFi explanation of "Advanced Technology Lol!" or that idiotic "Quantum Physics!". It likely has something to do with the Origin Coordinate.

 

[Archaron]

I wonder if we will ever learn how the Throne was created. I doubt Masada will just do that Low SiFi explanation of "Advanced Technology Lol!" or that idiotic "Quantum Physics!". It likely has something to do with the Origin Coordinate.

First he would have to address the creation and evolution of the ages prior to the throne, that is, the era when mithra was still a mortal... It would be interesting to see how he would explain the technological creation of something like throne, if it is purely technological, without factors like magic and etc, he would have to do something quite laborious, since even time travel seems small when compared to a technological version of the throne.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Well, it was explained that magic, in a way, did start to exist near the end of the Pre-Throne Era. With various individuals being bestowed with abilities that cannot be explained by Science. Which I am pretty sure is connected to the Origin Coordinate, which could be an early breach of Taikyoku into the World.

 

[Jarcus]

i am planning to get into DI. Should i play acta est fabula or amentes?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i am planning to get into DI. Should i play acta est fabula or amentes?

amantes is the one with the english translation though even if u read jap amantes is the more complete version anyway because it also has the side stories and the second rea ending iirc. the only thing really missing is the 18+ scenes for amantes and some tone down gore iirc

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Just play Amantes Amentes, you don't miss anything don't hear this pervert above me

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Yeah, it is not like Realta Nua. Nothing lost is really of value, nor do the rewritten or cut out parts effect character growth or the like.

So Amantes Amentes is the way to go, as you lose nothing of value, and it adds more than it takes away.

 

[GogitoQ]

i am planning to get into DI. Should i play acta est fabula or amentes?

amantes is the one with the english translation though even if u read jap amantes is the more complete version anyway because it also has the side stories and the second rea ending iirc. the only thing really missing is the 18+ scenes for amantes and some tone down gore iirc

I'm pretty sure the english one is also completed with all the side stories and 2nd rea ending as well?

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Yes, Amantes Amentes also adds the Side Stories in a VN format.

Basically Amantes Amentes is the way you want to go unless you desperately want the H-Scenes, to a point that you are willing to sacrifice everything else for that 18+.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

What would Numahime's name translate to. I tried to find some way to translate it, but I got:

ÕÑ┤: Guy, Slave, Manservant, Fellow

ÕÑê: Nara. What?

µ»ö:Compare, Race, Ratio, Philippines

Õú▓: Sell

I also can't find any compounds, nor Yojijukugo. Also whenever I looked it up all I could find was the Mother of Distortions.

I am aware it is a proper noun, but all of the names of the Tenma hold some kind of meaning, and I am just having trouble finding that meaning with Numahime.

 

[Infera28]

shouldn't Methuselah have some type Acausality? dude resisted 10^60 time resets powerful enough for even affecting High 1-A beings such as Ren, Reinhard and Hajun

 

[Infera28]

also

Regular LDO members are impervious to any weapons made by mankind including the Tsar Bomba, stronger than Wilhelm

anyone know it where stated not even Tsar Bomba affects them? i asked it for dozens times but no one answered

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

also

Regular LDO members are impervious to any weapons made by mankind including the Tsar Bomba, stronger than Wilhelm

I think this is when Ren and Shirou fights Wilhelm and Kei the first time but I'm not sure if it says something about the tsar

 

[Matteste]

also
Regular LDO members are impervious to any weapons made by mankind including the Tsar Bomba, stronger than Wilhelm

anyone know it where stated not even Tsar Bomba affects them? i asked it for dozens times but no one answered

I think that was something Trifa said in Kasumi's route. Can't remember exactly if he was only refering to himself or the LDO as a whole, though my personal guess is that he was refering only to himself.

I say that as if we go by the logic of how their defenses work, (nameley, they take damage based on how many lives a single weapon can take) then Tsar Bomba should be more than enough to kill the wast mayority of the memebers.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Extra story (don't know which one)

Statement was that they were impervious to any modern weaponry

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Yes, they are impervious to anything that is not a Holy Relic if I remember correctly. Though this is not like Servants in Fate where the immunity is Hax based upon wether or not the Weapon has Mystery.

With LDO it is a defensive feat, and it was explicity stated that they were impervious to any modern weaponry, as stated by Sleepy, thus it is safe to scale off of the Tsar Bomba for their AP and Defense unless they show feats displaying a higher tier.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

There's a playlist for that on here.

I would think it's in the Venfaulender segan story. DK at what point though.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Do we know how Samsara Vartin learned of the past Heavens? Or is that something to be revealed in the unreleased work taking place in Anima Entelechia.

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

Extra story (don't know which one)
Statement was that they were impervious to any modern weaponry

verfaulen segen, said by beatrice who have had her share of wartime experience so it should be pretty credible

 

[PsychoWarper]

we need to making a profile for Gladsheim (because now LLT has a profile too). especially seeing Gladhsheim's core/controller is a alive being callled Issak and Gladsheim also showed capability in independently speaking, thinking and moving (constantly speaking with Reinhard and giving his opinions to him, appearing as a obstacle against Reinhard and getting erased by him in Marie Route, attacking Kei and Ren in Rea Route and later talking with Ren and Rea).
his tier can be country level in IwKB, Mountain with 1-7 Swastikas and High Outerversal with Seals removed and starting to devouring creation/Atziluth.

I mean sure you could start a blog for it, it would have High 1-A Dura in all keys as well as Outerversal range with Teleportation or however you wanna call it.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Would these translations be correct for the KKK Storylines:

Õ¿üþâêþ╣Üõ╣▒þ»ç: Profusely Ardent Majesty

µÑ¢Õ£ƒÞíǵƒôÞè▒þ»ç: Paradise of Bloodstained Flowers

ÕÆÆþÜçþÖ¥Ú¼╝Õñ£Þíîþ»ç: Emperor of Curses: Hyakki Yagyō

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Also how do the routes work? Is it that they are all canon, but showing different POVs, or is it like Dies Irae, or most VNs for that manner, where only one Route is canon, and they are different timelines.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

I also wonder what the Taikyoku would be for Mithra and Muzan.

We know:

Muzan > Mithra

Nerose < Muzan

Mercurius > Nerose

 

[GogitoQ]

at least above 65

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Yeah, I do believe it is above 65. Probably above 70. Perhaps even higher than the Snek.

 

[Infera28]

i think Muzan's Taikyoku was below Satanel? it probably got retconned or some. his Taikyoku now can be even beyond Yato

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

How though, Satanel was so weak compared to Muzan he had to use Astaroth to erase him from existance through a time paradox of sorts.

I highly doubt Satanel was stronger than Muzan, and I don't remember Sayoshant Desiter giving any indication that he was stronger. And I expecially doubt that he would be beyond Yato, as Yato himself was above Mercurius, who is without a shadow of a doubt stronger than Satanael.

 

[GogitoQ]

i think Muzan's Taikyoku was below Satanel? it probably got retconned or some. his Taikyoku now can be even beyond Yato

you talking about weaken base yato?

 

[Sephiron000]

How though, Satanel was so weak compared to Muzan he had to use Astaroth to erase him from existance through a time paradox of sorts.
I highly doubt Satanel was stronger than Muzan, and I don't remember Sayoshant Desiter giving any indication that he was stronger. And I expecially doubt that he would be beyond Yato, as Yato himself was above Mercurius, who is without a shadow of a doubt stronger than Satanael.

Old KKK VFB but it might not be relevant anymore.

It's not that Satanael was "weak" (we've never seen his prowess as a God, how can we judge?), it's just that he could never defeat Magsarion, the pinnacle of martial might, by fighting him head on, so he has to resort to SCIENCE and Magsarion letting him "cheat" his position. Hell, Satanael even asked Magsarion to not call his method of doing as "unfair".

As for what happened in Saoshyant Desatir, the only thing we know for certain is that Magsarion used a Commandment to counter Hajun, most likely Saoshyant Aushedar, he might not have used anything else during that clash, if so, all those who were present have the right to be impressed.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

I know his clash with Hajun is not proof that he has the same Taikyoku. Also wasn't that interupted by Setsuna?

And I mean relatively weak, having a higher Taikyoku would likely transcend any level of martial might, making skill largely pointless. He is still High 1-A, as he still has Taikyoku, I just think that he would still have a lesser Taikyoku than Muzan.

Granted we don't have any Taikyoku values before NEET, but the way I understand it is that:

Mithra < Muzan

Satanael < Muzan

Satanael < Mercurius.

Mercurius = Marie; Reinhard and Ren (Rea Route)

Reinhard and Ren (Marie Route) = Amaterasu

All < Hajun

Heck, I am willing to say that Satanael might even be the weakest Throne God. Though this is taken from a series of assumptions.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

I also wonder what Hajun's Taikyoku would be without the Tumor making his power constantly escalate.

 

[Sephiron000]

We don't know the power level of the first 3 Gods besides Magsarion > Satanael, there were no fights during the successions, hell, even Satanael to Mercurius was also this. Kouha said it could've been a different story had Satanael fought Mercurius instead of letting himself be killed.

Ren interrupted them for things to not escalate further, though he said he couldn't do it completly, the results of the clash was Hajun's little finger and Magsarion's right arm.

If you want to go this way, that mean Commandments can ignore in some way Taikyoku.

Hajun's still the strongest, him being pissed by something = making his power constantly escalate remains but instead of the Tumor, now it's the Naraka who are what make his power rises.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

I see, and the first 3 is what I meant by before NEET. So it also seems that Satanael Ôëê Mercurius. Meaing that it is possibly that Muzan might be greater than Mercurius.

Also I think that his Commandments can only do so when they themselves are at the level of Taikyoku, as in Avesta his Commandments do not appear to have the power to defeat even a Taikyoku 1 foe, much less a Beast like Hajun.

But if we get an explicit statement that they bypass Taikyoku, or that they reach the realm of Taikyoku, that might put him up to a High 1-A even as Magsarion. Though it would likely just be counted as Hax.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Also I wonder what the Naraka would be rated at, to be able to bring all of the Throne Gods (Both True and Imaginary) back, and still supply Hajun with his ability to constantly grow more powerful, to what is a borderline Tier 0 level.

Hajun also dug into the Singularity, and even with an Immeasurable Taikyoku could only graze the surface of Naraka.

Logically speaking they would be beyond the power they can supply to Hajun, and they are at a greater "depth" than him it seems. Though this also raises questions about the one who put them there, Mithra.

 

[Sephiron000]

We haven't seen anyone or anything using Taikyoku in Avesta, that's just your assumption.

So far we have "distortions" emanating from Sirius and Magsarion, the former was making the people around him shameless for a brief moment and the latter was annihilating all of creation (Shinrabansho no metsujin).

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

And on Mercurius' Sensories:

Karl Ernst Kraft (1900-1945)

Alessandro di Cagliostro (1743-1795)

Hermes Trismegistus

Nostredamus (1503-1566)

Paracelsus (1493-1541)

Johann Georg Faust (1480-1540)

Christian Rosenkreutz

Albertus Magnus (1200-1280)

Nostredamus, Paracelsus, and Faust all overlap, all existing simulatinously during the years 1503-1540.

So here is my question. Can one have multiple "true" Sensories at one time or did Masada just not look at dates. I know that Hajun made both Madara and Reizen into his Sensories, but I am talking about beings that were born as Sensories.

 

[Sephiron000]

Logically speaking they would be beyond the power they can supply to Hajun, and they are at a greater "depth" than him it seems. Though this also raises questions about the one who put them there, Mithra.

They are not supplying him.

Hajun getting uncomfortable/being pissed off by something other than himself = constant rises of his power, that's one of his own traits.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Also what I am saying is that his Commandments have never shown such levels of power, so I doubt it. I know nobody has used Taikyoku yet. I am simply saying I doubt his Commandments, in his Not-Transcended State, would have the ability to bypass Taikyoku, though it might be an added benefit when he reaches Taikyoku later on.

Much like the LDO when risen to Psuedo-Gods (talking about Yatsukahagi, but Du Sollst also works) their attacks all become conceptual in nature, and sometimes develop extra effects due to this. Commandments might be like that.

Saoshyant Ausheder translates Killing Intent into his own Strength. This Strength, as a God, would likely be his Taikyoku. And Hajun has quite an intense amount of killing intent, thus Saoshyant Ausheder reflects that back upon him, causing a brief, but massive, increase in Muzan's own Taikyoku.

This is but a theory, but it does make sense, at least it makes sense to me.

We really cannot prove that it is wrong that Commandments can bypass Taikyoku unless we have it directly shown/told to us. This would only happen around the end of Avesta though, so we still have a few months.

Also the way you described it made it sound like they were supplying him, "making his power constantly escalate remains but instead of the Tumor, now it's the Naraka who are what make his power rises." But now I see how I could of misinterpreted that, I am getting quite tired at the moment.

I thought that him growing stronger was due to how the Tumor constantly worked against his own Craving, "to be alone", thus the strength of his Craving constantly increases, going without end, as it can never be satiated; and due to this his Taikyoku rises as well. So I guess that is not so much supplying as it is enabling.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Merc effortlessly killed Satanel when he came to his world tho, that is said when he uses Sequere Natura against Reinhard

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Sephiron said he just didn't put up a fight, and Kouha, in Pantheon Prologue, said that it might of gone differently if he did fight back.