Marx vs Silver

[ElixirBlue]

Silver can't kill Marx via punching him a lot as the AP gap is way to big, and if Marx gets BFR'd into other point in time nothing stops him from trying to come back via the 2 wish granting things that exist in his verse, one of which he's very aware of.

> via the 2 wish granting things that exist in his verse

Wait... that's outside help. Not equipment.

 

[Theuser789]

Has Silver ever time stopped? Like...ever?

No, but he can, for like the thousand time Chaos Control is one ability which is manipulating time and space, which time stop falls in It, it's not multiple abilities, if you know Chaos Control than you can use it diferentely, plus Silver was going to use time hax to counter Shadow in their fight

The cast doesn't even have a equipment tab Cal, but we already discussed so, I will fix the equipment of the main cast, they don't even have it

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Just because you can theoretically do something doesn't mean you know you can do it. Chaos Control has a thousand different applications. Timespace manipulation is very broad. If Silver hasn't once time stopped, even bloodlusted it's asinine to say he'd do that.

 

[Theuser789]

Chaos Control is manipulating time and space, all of this shit is diferent usages, there's nothing in verse that even implies that one person can use Chaos Control to teleport but not stop time when it's just a diferent usages of the same ability, that's headcanon to give a character a non existant weakeness

Furthermore Silver was going to counter Shadow own time hax in their fight, which them created the time hole, proving that yes, he knows how to manipulate time with it, otherwise no time hole would have been created and he would have teleported

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Time manipulation isn't just timestop, dude.

It's not that he can't use it. It's that because he's never used it before, it's asinine to assume he would at all. That's not hard to understand. That's like saying Krillin would use the Feet Kamehameha. By all means he ca, because it's all Ki and he knows the kamehameha, but he's never done it so why on earth would we assume he would? If anything, it's worse than that, because the Kamehameha is far less broad than the Chaos Control and Krillin actually saw the attack. Silver never saw timestop for obvious reasons: it was used on him.

 

[Theuser789]

This is completely headcanon trying to add a weakness that doesn't exist and the Kamehameha is a terrible example, Kamehameha is joining Ki and then firing It, that's the basic techinique, things like the feet Kamehameha or even moving one where things invented using the basic techinique, not the basic techinique, unlike Chaos Control.

Chaos Control is manipulating time and space, that's the basic techinique, it's never ever even implied in all of Sonic that some users of Chaos Control can't use a certain use of It, Shadow never says:"You can use Chaos Control, but only to teleport" or anything like that ever, using Chaos Control and knowing the techinique means he knows how to use diferent applications, otherwise I would like proof of ever being said in the series that a user of Chaos Control couldn't use it fully

Silver never saw timestop for obvious reasons: it was used on him.

Yes, but then he inmediately grabbed his emerald and copied Shadow to do the same, which Shadow also used to use it and create the Chaos Control, using your logic the only form of Chaos Control Silver would know would be the time stopping one so that's the only one he would try to use, so more proof he would know time stop

 

[DatOneWeeb]

What stops Marx from using literally any of his attacks to one shot?

 

[Theuser789]

Silver time stopping, because he is bloodlusted

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Why are we assuming that's his starting move? He has several other moves to attempt and kill Marx, I don't think this would make him start with Time Stop.

 

[Theuser789]

Because a bloodlusted character uses his best moves to get a W by any means, Silver knows that time stop would be the better move here, so ergo, he would use it, time stop leads to any of his kill moves perfectely, so there's no reason he would think that those moves are better used first

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Being bloodlusted =/= Use your best abilities at the start

 

[Theuser789]

Not, bloodlusted is that I am pretty sure, Sonic won because he would time stop then use Violet Void, being bloodlusted would mean he would use his best abilities to win the fight, at least that's how it was treated

Unrelated but Blaze explicitaly says Silver can stop time as well in the final cutscene of his history

 

[ShrekAnakin]

So, whats the status of the votes thus far?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Silver for User's reasons

 

[ElixirBlue]

Silver for User's reasons

 

[DatOneWeeb]

@User No, being bloodlusted means the character won't hesitate to kill and that is their main goal. To kill. They are also not chained down by CIS. That's it. None of it says that a character will use their best abilities from the start. Honestly, I can just see Marx teleporting next to silver and use any of his moves to kill him.

@ShrekAnakin There are 6 votes for Marx (Eficiente, Captain Finnigan, TheQuirkyBoy, XSOULOFCINDERX, Foxthefox1000, and me)

3 votes for Silver (Theuser789, Maverick Zero X, ElixirBlue)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's not a weakness. Not using moves isn't a weakness. Sonic can't nuke timelines like Solaris. That sure as heck isn't a weakness.

Are we arguing that firing energy is less complicated and more broad than timespace manipulation..? And for the last time, I'm not saying that he can't do it. I'm saying he won't do it. Because he never has. Seriously, show me a single other character who's assumed to use an ability because of scaling even despite never using it themselves. You'd need to prove the positive of him ever using it. Period. Blaze saying he can isn't him using it. Copying Shadow saying "Chaos Control" can mean any number of techniques being used, from time travel to teleportation. But from what I'm gathering, you're saying simply saying "Chaos Control" means you simultaneously stop time, time travel, teleport, and more because that's all just the basic technique. That's asinine and easily disproven. It's clear you choose what facet is used due to the fact Shadow's not constantly sent decades into the past or future when using the move, and said facet that you're arguing he's never used.

In short, show me Silver using timestop at all. Not Blaze saying he could do it. Not him copying Shadow's movement. Show me Silver stopping time, lest your argument is moot, as you can't prove the positive.

Marx due to actually being able to use his powers without speculation.

 

[ElixirBlue]

> I'm saying he won't do it. Because he never has

Blaze isn't saying he can. Blaze is telling him to use it.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

Sonic 06, written and directed by Greg Farshtey (Bionicle fans would get the joke)

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Can you actually show it instead of Blaze just telling him to do it?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Can you actually show it instead of Blaze just telling him to do it?

This

This is all I'm asking for.

If he has actually stopped time before, my arguments are moot. Otherwise he wouldn't. Not he can't. Never said he couldn't. It's strawmanning me to say that I said he can't. I said he wouldn't, and unless you show him stopping time, I'm right.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Can you actually show it instead of Blaze just telling him to do it?

Ooooooooo. I see. So we can no longer trust statements, is that it? Looks like I'm going to be working on a lot of downgrade threads.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ooooooooo. I see. So we can no longer trust statements, is that? Looks like I'm going to be working on a lot of downgrade threads.

Same strawman.

For the last time, nobody is arguing that he can't.

Everyone is arguing that he wouldn't

Stop changing the argument to fit your narrative.

 

[Theuser789]

Sonic has 2-C range, he can lol

At this point you are just speculating against the evidence, not everything needs to be exactaly clear cut for nerds, that's arguing from ignorance

Alot of what you are saying is repetitive and not worth making a wall of text, Silver uses Chaos Control copying Shadow who used time stop, Blaze says for Silver to stop time, and Chaos Control in it's fundamentals would say so, disprove any if this points instead of saying "it's not enough", this is not a CRT, I don't need a staff aproval

My point stands because that's a fact supported, while yours is just you thinking it's not enough via arguments from ignorance since you are fundamenataly not understanding me

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I found the scene, Blaze asked Silver to stop time but did not want to do it.

 

[Theuser789]

Why the **** wouldn't he do it when the first time he tried to do Chaos Control is to esplicitaly counter Shadow's time stop? This is dumb, not everything needs to be on your face because you can't understand

Silver being bloodlusted means he would stop time, pronto

 

[ElixirBlue]

I found the scene, Blaze asked Silver to stop time but did not want to do it.

Bloodlusted would take care of the "did not want to do it".

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

He doesn't know what Shadow is thinking. He copies Chaos Control. One ability with a myriad of facets. I'm not speculating at all. Because I'm not arguing that he can't stop time. Speculation would be assuming Silver is special in the fact that he couldn't use it. However, with all the text, you have yet to prove Silver has ever used timestop. Pikachu for example by all means should know Nuzzle. Used to be the signature move of electric rodents. He's never used it? Then he won't use it. Same case here. That's always been the case. For every series and character here. You've used it? Then it's available to you. Otherwise, you don't. We're not making a special case for Silver. Prove he's used it. Show him using it. Not him being capable of using it. You've done that. That's not the argument. Him ever using it is.

 

[Theuser789]

The fact he didn't want to means he can use it and would, he didn't want to because he didn't want to lose Blaze

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I've yet to see Silver actually use it because I'm not being provided with any scans of him using it. Hell, in that scenario you yourself are stating that he only did it to counter Shadow's time stop, not him using it in any other chance. I'm not arguing he can't use it. But is that his starting move? No. Not at all. I've already explained why being bloodlusted doesn't mean using your best abilities at the start.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Bloodlusted would take care of the "did not want to do it".

Cool, doesn't make it his starting move anyways.

 

[Theuser789]

He did when he countered Shadow, he didn't even know what the **** Chaos Control was, he saw Shadow manipulate time, copied what he knew, which was what he saw, simple, the fact a time hole happened instead of what happened in Sonic and Shadow's fight in SA2 proves It

Also this arguments are irrelevant in bloodlusted anyways

 

[Theuser789]

Multiple threads and people literaly goes against that, bloodlusted means you would use your best abilities, you all are arguing character when this match is about bloodlusted, reminder Sonic literaly won because of this and like Silver he only used Chaos Control to time stop in the multiplayer, yet nobody was like this

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

He saw nothing. He was stopped in time. He heard Chaos Control.

I'll keep repeating what I have so far. Show him using it. I'm aware he knows how to do it. Show him using it like you have to do with every other character on the site. Bloodlusted or not he has to show that much.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

@User No, being bloodlusted means the character won't hesitate to kill and that is their main goal. To kill. They are also not chained down by CIS. That's it. None of it says that a character will use their best abilities from the start. Honestly, I can just see Marx teleporting next to silver and use any of his moves to kill him.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Multiple threads and people literaly goes against that, bloodlusted means you would use your best abilities, you all are arguing character when this match is about bloodlusted, reminder Sonic literaly won because of this and like Silver he only used Chaos Control to time stop in the multiplayer, yet nobody was like this

Which is more than we can say Silver did.

Unless he can do it in multiplayer.

 

[Theuser789]

He saw nothing. He was stopped in time. He heard Chaos Control.

I'll keep repeating what I have so far. Show him using it. I'm aware he knows how to do it. Show him using it like you have to do with every other character on the site. Bloodlusted or not he has to show that much.

He actualy was slowed down, not stopped and Shadow literaly explains anyways, ad nauseum

@Weeb And using your best abilities helps the main goal to kill, and not restricted by CIS also means that

Idk why I am wasting my New Eve wasting my time arguing about things that already were used multiple times in prevoius threads and by others

 

[ElixirBlue]

Shadow uses Time Stop


Shadow implies he'll continue to use Time Stop


Silver reacts to this by pulling out a Chaos Emerald


Both Shadow and Silver use Chaos Control at the exact same time in the exact same positio


Shadow is surprise to see a portal appearing, as that was not what he was Intending to happe

 

[Theuser789]

Tfw we have to explain a scene frame by frame to prove our point

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

"I control time and space" =/= "I stopped time"

Also if time was slowed instead of stopped, there goes that argument of him using timestop against Shadow and his one time of possibly (emphasis on possibly) using it, as time slow still gets him killed.