Marvel 4-B Scaling Standards Revision

[Antvasima]

Well, from what I remember of the blog, your suggestions largely seemed fine, but I have so many tasks to do right now that I cannot go indepth on my own.

 

[The_Impress]

Current Queries:

* Qawsedf wants She-Hulk's 1st Key and Red She-Hulk's 1st to have their 4-Bs discounted. C2 and Ant agree.
* Qawsedf wants Juggernaut to be listed as 4-B, C2 wants him to be listed as a Varies, 5-A to 4-B, and Antvasima wants him to be listed as 5-A. Colossus follows same
* Eficiente has unelaborated problems regarding Gamora's new Modern key.
* Tllmbrg has problems with At most 4-B Nova (Richard Rider) that we have discussed to get addressed in his own separate rework thread he is planning

 

[Antvasima]

Just a clarification: I do not know exactly where to place Juggernaut. I just clarified that Thor was weakened in the old Tom DeFalco story in which Juggernaut had the upper hand, and that Thor outmatched him in a later fight by the same writer.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, Nova varies a lot depending on how much of the Nova Force that he has available at the moment. With the entire Nova Force, he may be 4-B, but when sharing it with thousands of others, not so much.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Most of his stories are when the whole Corps are dead tho, or when there's a really small amount

 

[Tllmbrg]

Also the amount of Nova force he can access is not like "oh I can use this rn but a moment later I can pull out even more"

He usually has a set amount he can use, which is why in my planned thread he'll get like 2 new Keys

 

[Antvasima]

Well, he definitely isn't 4-B when he only has a tiny part of the entire force.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Of course not, my revision will add a new Key before he got a majority of the Nova Force and one for after he got out of the Cancerverse

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. That should hopefully be fine then.

 

[The_Impress]

Can we get clarity on the Juggernaut placement?

Mainly by @C2_of_Omegon providing scans of this supposed variable tier for him

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Cyttorak denying Cain power.

Cyttorak found Cain's reason for fighting to be weak, so he doesn't allow him more power. This demonstrates that Cyttorak has certain standards of behavior for his avatars and if he finds them wanting, he'll rescind the power. He doesn't restore Cain's power until Cain embraces his evil ways again, hence, Cyttorak all but dangling the power in front of his face with the prompting about the reason for him to fight Hulk.

Cyttorak commenting of Cain's behavior during Fear Itself.

This reinforces that Cyttorak wants his avatars to behave in certain ways. The only reason he ends up disapproving is due to the fact that Cain is also serving the Serpent due to his possession by Kuurth, as pointed out by Magick. This is why he ends of taking away Cain's powers and giving them to Colossus.

Colossus's normal Juggernaut form & Enhanced form

These are important because it shows us that Cyttorak can give more power and in a variety of ways. Another scan will reinforce this even more down the road but I just wanted a little more evidence about the fact that Cyttorak doesn't always hand out the same level of power all the time.

Cain being given even more power at one point.

Here, Cain was given even more power after a deal with Colossus and Cyttorak. Again, we see that Cyttorak can hand out power as he pleases. Heck, Cyttorak even took away Juggernaut's weakness to psionics in this form.

Cyttorak explains why he likes Colossus so much and compares him to Cain.

Finally, we get it straight from Cyttorak. He straight up admits he gives more to Colossus due to Colossus partaking in way more destructive fights than Cain, way more often. Heck, this came about because Colossus tried to get Cyttorak to take back the powers, because he had the Phoenix Force and was technically serving another master, like what happened with Cain in Fear Itself. This was Cyttorak's response and reasoning for refusal.

So, in conclusion, we can clearly see that Cyttorak is where the buck stops. It's up do him to deem if his avatar, the Juggernaut, is acting in accordance with what he wants and gives or takes power based on that.

Note: I'll be heading off to work soon. So any responses or disagreements or questions, I won't be able to answer until way later tonight.

 

[Antvasima]

C2 makes sense to me. Thank you for helping out.

 

[The_Impress]

So the topic of Juggernaut has been resolved to be noted as Varies, and Shulkie and Red She-Hulk would be 5-A for first key.

Now @Eficiente had a problem with 5-A Modern Gamora, and I'd say for the time being due to a lack of research for the character, I'll just avoid touching Gamora and elaborate on her when I do research her.

I am leaving the thread for another two hours before applying it, as many others have accepted these revisions already. If anyone wants to refute a character statistic they're free to right now or be forced to make a CRT for them in the future

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Looking at Apocalypse's profile I think he should be 4-B, especially since I don't see High Evolutionary in that blog

 

[Antvasima]

Zark2099:

Please write a list of all the exact titles for all the pages that you need unlocked, so my automated script can handle it. Take note that this means what the pages are named, not what the characters in them are named. Thank you. Then tell me here when you are done, and I should lock them again.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Onslaught(Base) has a declaration of being able to destroy Stars according to jean gray.

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

prnt.sc

I don't know if it's a hyperbole but I want to mention it

so can keep tier 4B or not

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Onslaught created a star and fought a completely berzerk Hulk, so he is probably 4-B.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I mean, that was when With the Powers of Franklin Richards and Nate Gray.

that statement is from him at the base without any battery power

 

[The_Impress]

I am now applying the revisions.

 

[The_Impress]

Onslaught(Base) has a declaration of being able to destroy Stars according to jean gray.

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

prnt.sc

I don't know if it's a hyperbole but I want to mention it

so can keep tier 4B or not

I will say tho, that the base should scale to its own feats then

@Antvasima we list the Berserk Hulk feat for the second key iirc

 

[The_Impress]

Looking at Apocalypse's profile I think he should be 4-B, especially since I don't see High Evolutionary in that blog

High-Evolutionary destroys himself half the time, he is near Gladiator levels of inconsistent imo

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I will say tho, that the base should scale to its own feats then

that makes sense, he was superior to many characters in his appearances

 

[The_Impress]

...actually nevermind, Jean Grey is clearly being sarcastic there, so it's likely not literal...

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

ok, i also thought it was sarcastic although i wasn't sure

 

[Antvasima]

@The_Impress

Tell me here if you need any pages unlocked.

 

[The_Impress]

I have completed the additions for Hulk, Thor and Silver Surfer... but I am somewhat tired so I will do the rest later if nobody minds

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out. I appreciate it.

If Amelia or somebody else is unlocking the pages for you, it is extremely important that they close them again afterwards.

 

[The_Impress]

They are doing so.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is good. Thanks.

 

[SuperAPM]

@Antvasima

Would it be alright if I be given Rollback so that I may be able to help edit all the necessary pages?

 

[Antvasima]

If The_Impress thinks that it is a good idea, I can give them to you, but I am going to bed very soon.

 

[SuperAPM]

It's fine AKM has given me the roll already, I'll report to him after I've finished

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks for helping out.

 

[LordTracer]

This scan on Surfer’s profile has the description ‘Superior to The Thing.’ How does it show that at all? The comic that scan was from had a weakened Surfer, who was portrayed as beneath Thing through most of it.

 

[The_Impress]

Interesting Tracer, didn't you use it to argue 4-B Thing owo

Anyways I can just, get it removed

 

[LordTracer]

I told you already that I didn’t know Surfer was weakened then smh.

 

[The_Impress]

smhsmhsmhsmh should read comics and not respect threads smhsmhsmh

 

[LordTracer]

Surfer was weakened in a comic separate from the one with the fight smh smh

 

[The_Impress]

Anyways back on topic ig

 

[LordTracer]

Oh yeah, I wanted to ask if you meant to leave Doctor Doom out of the revision list.