Marvel, 1A realm

[Danny1112]

These scans describe Asgard to be beyond time and space so making it 1A

NOTE: Something being beyond time and space itself is not enough to prove 1A without further context, considering the context could just mean the "Verse time and space" which could be of a lower time and space or higher time and space. However, that's not the case for this as it's actually specifies to be beyond human "concept of time and space" in which there's Hilbert's infinite dimensional space (High 1B in this site).

So at the very least, I suggest a low 1A and at high baseline 1A for it.

 

[Confluctor]

Couldn't this be just Low 1-C?

Also, following. This is interesting.

 

[Danny1112]

Couldn't this be just Low 1-C?

Also, following. This is interesting.

It says beyond Humans understanding of Space-time concept, the highest or our limit of Space-time concept is Hilbert's "Infinite dimensional space" not a 6d and Outerversal is described in such a way that's it's to the limit of our understanding of dimensional tiering.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

Check the Tiering System page.

It should, on the other hand, be kept in mind that merely existing "beyond the concepts of space and time" and similar feats do not necessarily qualify one to bypass into this tier unless the work of fiction in question leaves it very clear that a character also exists beyond all extensions of the concepts which they transcend.

Unfortunately, statements like this are seen as being too vague to qualify for the tier.

 

[LordTracer]

Marvel’s entire multiverse is accepted as a High 1-B structure here, for Asgard to be 1-A, you would have to provide evidence that Asgard transcends the entire multiverse.

 

[Amakasu]

It says beyond Humans understanding of Space-time concept, the highest or our limit of Space-time concept is Hilbert's "Infinite dimensional space" not a 6d and Outerversal is described in such a way that's it's to the limit of our understanding of dimensional tiering.

No, the 16 Dimension in marvel is specifically stated to be beyond human comprehension. And even reed richards says the 4th Dimension is incomprehensible to him. And these statements are very shaky if there's not more stuffs to support the idea

 

[Danny1112]

Check the Tiering System page.

Unfortunately, statements like this are seen as being too vague to qualify for the tier.

It's actually explicit not vague. It describes it as simply beyond "Human concept of space and time", I literally pointed about the argument of vagueness in my post.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

It's actually explicit not vague. It describes it was simply beyond "Human concept of space and time", I literally pointed about the argument of vagueness in my post.

It's still very much too vague. Like, mortal man's understanding can be interpreted in a hundred ways. It could easily just mean what they can perceive themselves. Plus, as someone else said, the 16th dimension is already above human comprehension in Marvel.

 

[Danny1112]

Marvel’s entire multiverse is accepted as a High 1-B structure here, for Asgard to be 1-A, you would have to provide evidence that Asgard transcends the entire multiverse.

It's actually ranked Outerversal and it's not by size but by embodiment, so Asgard would just be described as part of it. The multiverse can contain more than an infinite Hilbert's universe or even more than one Outerversal realm.

 

[Danny1112]

The scan contradicts itself as it says beyond the "Space and time" then tiers the place as a 16 dimensional space, it's not a good comparison and doesn't say "Beyond he understanding of space and time by humans" it just says space and time which I argued to be a vague term and not anything meaningful, unlike the Asgard description.

It's still very much too vague. Like, mortal man's understanding can be interpreted in a hundred ways. It could easily just mean what they can perceive themselves. Plus, as someone else said, the 16th dimension is already above human comprehension in Marvel.

 

[Amakasu]

The scan contradicts itself as it says beyond the "concept of space and time"

It doesn't say that, it just says, "beyond time and beyond space" which can be interpreted in multiple things. Space here is just reffering to 3 spatial Dimension and 1 temporal Dimension or maybe even higher till 16d.

then tiers the place as a 16 dimensional space, it's not a good comparison and doesn't say "Beyond he understanding of space and time by humans"

it does says, "human comprehension" and the human concept of time and space will come into that. Are you saying humans can understand something Beyond their understanding?

just says space and time which I argued to be a vague term and not anything meaningful, unlike the Asgard description.

It's not vauge at all.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

It's actually ranked Outerversal and it's not by size but by embodiment, so Asgard would just be described as part of it. The multiverse can contain more than an infinite Hilbert's universe or even more than one Outerversal realm.

Within the wiki, it's only considered High 1-B, as you can see on Beyonder and Eternity's pages:

Attack Potency: Low Outerverse level (He was stated to be an infinite dimensional being, and had thousands to millions of times greater power than that contained within an infinite-dimensional multiverse. He was stated to be larger than the multiverse in size and to be more powerful than all its entities combined)

Low Outerverse level (He embodies the totality of existence, on all planes and levels of Creation. The Marvel Multiverse has been shown to contain infinite Higher-Dimensions many times

I could be mistaken, but as far as I'm aware, no page on the wiki puts the Multiverse as Outerversal.

The scan contradicts itself as it says beyond the "concept of space and time" then tiers the place as a 16 dimensional space, it's not a good comparison and doesn't say "Beyond he understanding of space and time by humans" it just says space and time which I argued to be a vague term and not anything meaningful, unlike the Asgard description.

The scan doesn't say "the concepts of space and time", just "space and time", so no, it doesn't contradict itself.

And again, "mortal man's understanding" can be seen in many different ways. I already gave my interpretation, and since you made the original post with your interpretation, you need to back it up to show why it's more likely for your upgrade to work.

 

[Danny1112]

It's actually explicit not vague. It describes it was simply beyond "Human concept of space and time", I literally pointed about the argument of vagueness in my post.

Within the wiki, it's only considered High 1-B, as you can see on Beyonder and Eternity's pages:


I could be mistaken, but as far as I'm aware, no page on the wiki puts the Multiverse as Outerversal.

The scan doesn't say "the concepts of space and time", just "space and time", so no, it doesn't contradict itself.

And again, "mortal man's understanding" can be seen in many different ways. I already gave my interpretation, and since you made the original post with your interpretation, you need to back it up to show why it's more likely for your upgrade to work.

I made a correction for that "Concept of time and Space" and yes it contradicts itself, you can't call something beyond time and space then rank it as a 16 dimensional space-time and it support my argument against using "Beyond space and time" as a qualification of Outerversal as it could mean the "Verse own space and time,which could be lower or higher dimensional space time". Again, the scan says beyond human concept of space time (to be beyond it is like saying even Hilbert's infinite dimensional space can quantify it).

And Eternity isn't infinite in size, considering there are infinite dimensional worlds inside of him and outerversal realms. Check his actual page and not Beyonder to see for yourself.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

I made a correction for that "Concept of time and Space" and yes it contradicts itself, you can't call something beyond time and space then rank it as a 16 dimensional space-time

Yeah you can. Wanna know what's above space and time? 16D. It being 16D and upscaling from space and time isn't a contradiction.
Like if I said something is "way bigger than planets and nearly the size of a star", nothing in there is a contradiction just because stars > planets.

and it support my argument against using "Beyond space and time" as a qualification of Outerversal as it could mean the "Verse own space and time,which could be lower or higher dimensional space time".

Sorry but I don't get what you're trying to prove here or where it gets you. Would you mind clarifying?

Again, the scan says beyond human concept of space time (to be beyond it is like saying even Hilbert's infinite dimensional space can quantify it).

But again... that can mean many different things. I already gave the interpretation of it meaning what they can actually perceive and whatnot. Like, even though scientists can make these theories, they can't actually perceive nor comprehend the workings of higher dimensions. You made your interpretation, now I gave my own, but since you're the one suggesting this and the one with the initial point, you need to show why yours is more likely.

 

[Danny1112]

Within the wiki, it's only considered High 1-B, as you can see on Beyonder and Eternity's pages:


I could be mistaken, but as far as I'm aware, no page on the wiki puts the Multiverse as Outerversal.

The scan doesn't say "the concepts of space and time", just "space and time", so no, it doesn't contradict itself.

And again, "mortal man's understanding" can be seen in many different ways. I already gave my interpretation, and since you made the original post with your interpretation, you need to back it up to show why it's more likely for your upgrade to work.

Yeah you can. Wanna know what's above space and time? 16D. It being 16D and upscaling from space and time isn't a contradiction.
Like if I said something is "way bigger than planets and nearly the size of a star", nothing in there is a contradiction just because stars > planets.

Sorry but I don't get what you're trying to prove here or where it gets you. Would you mind clarifying?

But again... that can mean many different things. I already gave the interpretation of it meaning what they can actually perceive and whatnot. Like, even though scientists can make these theories, they can't actually perceive nor comprehend the workings of higher dimensions. You made your interpretation, now I gave my own, but since you're the one suggesting this and the one with the initial point, you need to show why yours is more likely.

16D isn't beyond space and time, it's just a higher space and time;Ergo Hyperversal. Being beyond space and time in its entirety is above the likes of an infinite dimensional space-time which is>>>16D or any higher dimensional levels.

And I didn't just say human understanding of Space-time but concept, which is what is in the scan. An infinite dimensional space is part of human concept of space-time.

Also read my post before this one again, I edited some things.

 

[Planck69]

Nothing here is 1-A. We don't grant tiers for stuff being "beyond human understanding" for the same reason that being beyond logic and mathematics isn't tierable in and of itself.

Anyone opposed to me just closing this thread? The original poster seems very misinformed on how our tiering system works.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

16D isn't beyond space and time, it's just a higher space and time;Ergo Hyperversal. Being beyond space and time in its entirety is above the likes of an infinite dimensional space-time which is>>>16D or any higher dimensional levels.

Okay sure Infinite higher spatiotemporal dimensions would be above 16D... but the scan doesn't say that. It just says "beyond space and time", with no further context.

And I didn't just say human understanding of Space-time but concept, which is what is in the scan. An infinite dimensional space is part of human concept of space-time.

This is in no way a rebuttal to what I said.
Again, concept needs further context. You said the context is the human understanding. As I have already said:

But again... that can mean many different things. I already gave the interpretation of it meaning what they can actually perceive and whatnot. Like, even though scientists can make these theories, they can't actually perceive nor comprehend the workings of higher dimensions.

So, I already addressed that.

And Eternity isn't infinite in size, considering there are infinite dimensional worlds inside of him and outerversal realms. Check his actual page and not Beyonder to see for yourself.

Uh, so what? My point is multiple pages on the wiki put the Marvel Multiverse at Infinite Dimensional, including Eternity's and Beyonder's.

Anyone opposed to me just closing this thread? The original poster seems very misinformed on how our tiering system works.

Seems fine to me.

 

[Danny1112]

You're missing the "concept of time and space". Why would I waste my time for a post just with "Beyond human comprehension" lol.

 

[Planck69]

You're missing the "concept of time and space". Why would I waste my time for a post just with "Beyond human comprehension" lol.

This is just Low 1-C and even then, only if it showcases them as being on a higher plane of existence in relation to regular space-time. We don't assume that they're talking about every possible real life application of space-time with these statements at all unless specified.

 

[Danny1112]

Okay sure Infinite higher spatiotemporal dimensions would be above 16D... but the scan doesn't say that. It just says "beyond space and time", with no further context.

This is in no way a rebuttal to what I said.
Again, concept needs further context. You said the context is the human understanding. As I have already said:

So, I already addressed that.

Uh, so what? My point is multiple pages on the wiki put the Marvel Multiverse at Infinite Dimensional, including Eternity's and Beyonder's.

Seems fine to me

The scan didn't say beyond time and space. It says that human concept of time and space is basically inapplicable to it or it's beyond it, Hilbert's infinite dimensional space-time is part of human concept of Space-time. Again, this site defines Eternity as containing high 1B structures and outerversal realms and not infinite dimensional in size.

 

[Planck69]

And again, we never make the assumption that all real life concepts of space and time are being talked about without further proof.

 

[Danny1112]

This is just Low 1-C and even then, only if it showcases them as being on a higher plane of existence in relation to regular space-time. We don't assume that they're talking about every possible real life application of space-time with these statements at all unless specified.

Low 1C is for low complex multiverse structures or 6th and 5th dimensional space-time. The scan literally said beyond human concepts of time and space what else could that mean? Am not making assumptions but just taking into the fact that Hilbert concept of Space-time is rated high 1B in this site.

 

[Danny1112]

And again, we never make the assumption that all real life concepts of space and time are being talked about without further proof.

What else could mean "Beyond human concept of Time and Space" then?

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

The scan didn't say beyond time and space. It says that human concept of time and space is basically inapplicable to it or it's beyond it,

My first sentence is talking about the 16D space scan and why there's no contradiction, not to the Asgard scans.
Also using "basically inapplicable" off of "beyond" is a huge logical leap.

Hilbert's infinite dimensional space-time is part of human concept of Space-time.

I really don't know why I need to repeat myself so many times.
"Human understanding of space and time" or "mortal concept of space and time" don't need to be interpreted in that way only. It can just mean what they comprehend and perceive, and since you made the initial claim with your interpretation, you need to show it's more likely. Also, just because they make those theories doesn't mean they can comprehend higher dimensions.

Again, this site defines Eternity as containing high 1B structures and outerversal realms and not infinite dimensional in size.

Cool? My point isn't "Eternity is High 1-B", but that they wiki sees the Multiverse at High 1-B. This doesn't change that. Also, if you're trying to scale Asgard above the Multiverse, you need some serious evidence for that.

Also one of your scans literally contradicts itself as it puts Asgard some place "far across the Universe":

Which would still mean inside it.

 

[Planck69]

Low 1C is for low complex multiverse structures or 6th and 5th dimensional space-time. The scan literally said beyond human concepts of time and space what else could that mean, am not making assumptions but just taking into the fact that Hilbert concept of Space-time is rated high 1B in this site.

Not really. Transcending space and time stopped being automatically 1-A over 2 years ago. You can be above "the concepts of space and time" and just be Low 1-C or even lower.

And Hilbert Space isn't automatically High 1-B on this site. It can give High 1-B with context but just "He destroyed Hilbert Space" isn't a feat.

 

[Planck69]

What else could mean "Beyond human concept of Time and Space" then?

Nothing, it all depends on context. It could be Low 1-C, resistance to space-time hax, adimensional physiology or anything.

 

[PrinceofPein]

These scans describe Asgard to be beyond time and space so making it 1A

NOTE: Something being beyond time and space itself is not enough to prove 1A without further context, considering the context could just mean the "Verse time and space" which could be of a lower time and space or higher time and space. However, that's not the case for this as it's actually specifies to be beyond human "concept of time and space" in which there's Hilbert's infinite dimensional space (High 1B in this site).

So at the very least, I suggest a low 1A and at high baseline 1A for it.

Lol at most this is 1B very baseline 1B BTW
Been above space and time of humans and above human comprehension is like one R-F difference. Yes just baseline 1B

 

[Planck69]

Asgard doesn't even transcend the universe in the sense of a higher plane of existence. The upgrade won't ever go through but I'd rather at least make some standards clear to a new user.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Honestly from what I know of Asgard,
its just another higher space not dimensionality if it was of higher dimensionality then everyone from Asgard will scale to that to, which is clearly not the case I mean look at Thor

Well I think this thread should be closed

 

[Planck69]

I'll close this thread then. Original poster, it'd be better if you started getting more familiar with how tiers are given on this site.