Mario and Paint: Concept Manip?

[Foxthefox1000]

All evidence found Here

Credit to DatOneWeeb who unfortunately left the wiki, but I hope to at least get some of the things they wanted added evaluated.

Given it literally embodies everything and without it everything turns into a blank white space that ceases functionality, I feel like this fits the alteration of a concept that's described on the page.

As shown in the blog above, liquid losing even splotches of paint essentially make the entirety of the body of "liquid" cease function as a liquid. Water wheels don't turn because there is no flow, boats and other objects don't float, etc. It even goes so far as the space that makes up holes having paint taken making it not a hole anymore.

Not shown in the blog, but things like light sources needing paint to shine, and fire not functioning like fire until painted, and even 3D objects when getting paint drained becoming flat white cards. Some enemies can become cards too. The blog also shows how paint can exist in higher dimensions.

There's a lot to unpack here, so even if Concept Manipulation gets rejected the other abilities of Paint and the fact Mario can function without paint (and some other characters) should be discussed so we could potentially add them and resitances to them to the profiles.

 

[Garchomp777]

This is quite similar to concept manipulation described here. And if paint literally makes up thoughts, that's pretty blatant. Don't scale Mario much but I'm going to have to agree with everything

The type 2 part lacks elaboration. On this wiki, a concept has to govern reality, not just transcend. From the looks of it, you remove paint and all of what it makes up dissapears, proving its type 2

Also, which profiles would this apply to? Only paper mario characters?

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I guess the Paper Mario characters, yeah. Personally I think they should all be the same character but whatever the wiki wants.

To add on to concept manip resistance, even beyond Paint the Void was gonna destroy even the Underwhere where Jaydes ruled over life and death and caused a Pure Heart, an artifact made of the concept of love and embodying emotions, to be petrified and Mario and Co. survived this as well.

 

[Garchomp777]

I guess the Paper Mario characters, yeah. Personally I think they should all be the same character but whatever the wiki wants.

To add on to concept manip resistance, even beyond Paint the Void was gonna destroy even the Underwhere where Jaydes ruled over life and death and caused a Pure Heart, an artifact made of the concept of love and embodying emotions, to be petrified and Mario and Co. survived this as well.

Scan for pure heart made of the concept of love?

 

[Foxthefox1000]

 

[QuasiYuri]

I think another evidence is how a giant paintless coin can't be picked up, but can once colored, with Huey commenting on it.

Anyway, I agree

 

[Imaginym]

I don't see reason to disagree with this. Given what I have read, I feel that I agree.

 

[Lou_change]

I agree with this.

 

[Mozzada]

I agree.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Personally I think they should all be the same character but whatever the wiki wants.

They are. The Paper Mario profile is only for Paper Mario from Paper Jam.

 

[Starsprite53]

I agree

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Agreed, but type 2 needs a bit more elaboration

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Conceptual Manipulation seems fine, though it doesn’t look like Type 2 is applicable.

 

[Bobsican]

This looks fine from a glance, considering that it affects all of existence and so on.
Anyways, I would put whatever conclusion that comes from this on hold as the conceptual revisions will most likely make type 1 and type 2 be merged, which would lead into even more work to ensure stuff remains accurate in the long run.

 

[Starsprite53]

May add this scan for the type 2

 

[Starsprite53]

So....

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Said scan doesn't seem close enough to be type 2, type 3 is a far safer assumption

 

[Starsprite53]

"2. False Platonic Concept: Such concepts, or forms, are mostly transcendent of reality. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts."
The scan in blaze's blog and the scan i posted cover the transcendent part
If it doesn't,i want to know why

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

A) It quite literally is vague as hell
B) Said concepts have to be transcendent over reality AND govern it
C) Does this scan even apply to the concepts? Like, at all?

 

[Starsprite53]

A) It quite literally is vague as hell

How?
It literally shows that mario transcended his dimension and uses the transdimensional scissors.

B) Said concepts have to be transcendent over reality AND govern it
C) Does this scan even apply to the concepts? Like, at all?

Did you even read the blog?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I agree with paint being a concept but not type 2. Type 2 would need a little more backing.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

May add this scan for the type 2

1. That's clearly hyperbole
2. That can still be Type 3

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

The scissors scan is just dimensional travel.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with Type 3, for the record

 

[Foxthefox1000]

To be fair, in the same game there exists a parallel universe and paint makes up space too.

Transcending dimensions in this context seems to support actual spatial dimensions more so than viewing dimensions as universes given context from the game itself. Huey himself states they transcend dimension and he's the one who teaches Mario the ability.

The parallel universe also has paint sapped there and changes made there or in the other main universe effect the other universe.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

The direct quote

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Dimension and universe can be used interchangeably, and this is already shown to be the case in Mario.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

But in a case-by-case basis that doesn't hold up.

This game only ever uses dimension when referring to the cutout ability. "Universe" and "World" are interchangeable in this game, but dimension is not. Hell, when inside the game world using the ability allows you to flip to 3D like Super Paper Mario. Huey explicitly states this requires paint to do so as well.

All the evidence points to spatial dimensions for this game. Taking an object out of your dimension and placing it in the dimension you transcend to completely erases that object as well.

 

[Garchomp777]

1. That's clearly hyperbole
2. That can still be Type 3

Its literally not hyperbole at all, that would just be a random assumption

The scissors scan is just dimensional travel.

Transcending dimensions into a higher dimension isn't just dimensional travel. They even transcend space and time

 

[Infera28]

I agree.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Oh, also, should we compile a list of everything the Paint covers? Just to havw a good idea of what resistances and abilities people would have via the paint and functioning without it beyond the concept manip?

Soul Manip
Empath Manip
Mind Manip

Maybe Biology Manip? (Makes up blood, sweat, and tears and could restore a fossil completely).

Though I guess a good amount of these fall under Life Manipulation since all of these make up Life.

Probably the big ones I can think of.

 

[Garchomp777]

Oh, also, should we compile a list of everything the Paint covers? Just to havw a good idea of what resistances and abilities people would have via the paint and functioning without it beyond the concept manip?

Soul Manip
Empath Manip
Mind Manip

Maybe Biology Manip? (Makes up blood, sweat, and tears and could restore a fossil completely).

Though I guess a good amount of these fall under Life Manipulation since all of these make up Life.

Probably the big ones I can think of.

High godly regen as well. Memory erasure, blood manip, death manipulation, type 5 immortality, NEP type 2

Agree: 11(

(Infera28,Garchomp777,ShadowWarrior1999, Maverick_Zero_X, Starsprite53, Ned_the_outer_god, YuriAkuto,​

Imaginym, Lou_change, Mozzada, Bobsican)​

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Uh.

High Godly? Based on what? I guess I can see Type 5. Being that it is responsible for Life and even souls and undead need paint, Paint being taken away but Mario still living on essentially makes Mario deathless? Idk. Could just be resistance to Death Manip, couldn't it?

 

[Foxthefox1000]

"2. False Platonic Concept: Such concepts, or forms, are mostly transcendent of reality. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. These concepts interact with their objects in the same manner as listed above. In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept on whatever scale has been shown."

Just gonna leave this here and ask why this doesn't fit the writing on the page itself.

 

[deonment]

imo it fits type 3 but not type 2,

are mostly transcendent of reality

it isnt though just being able to paint while "Transcending" your reality doesnt mean anything

concepts shape all of reality

paint does not shape reality, what it does is gives function

whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts

this seems true though

the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept on whatever scale has been shown."

I don't think this has been shown in colour splash though, remind me if I'm misremembering

 

[Garchomp777]

Uh.

High Godly? Based on what? I guess I can see Type 5. Being that it is responsible for Life and even souls and undead need paint, Paint being taken away but Mario still living on essentially makes Mario deathless? Idk. Could just be resistance to Death Manip, couldn't it?

I sent you some scans, you can add them in.
Do you think we can make Paint Manipulation(Mario) page? There's too many abilities manipulating paint and resisting it would grant.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I mean I thought it was pretty clear Paint is in literally everything

 

[deonment]

I mean I thought it was pretty clear Paint is in literally everything

yeah that doesnt mean it is type 2 though, you wouldnt say the concept of quarks or atoms are type 2

 

[Garchomp777]

If paint encompasses all concepts then mario would be outerversal in color splash. It doesn't encompass all concepts, though, just a lot of them. And its type 2 because if you remove paint, the object becomes basically non existent

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

If paint encompasses all concepts then mario would be outerversal in color splash. It doesn't encompass all concepts, though, just a lot of them. And its type 2 because if you remove paint, the object becomes basically non existent

That isn't type 2 though. Anos from Maou Goukin has NEP type 2, but he only has concept manip type 3