Mario and Paint: Concept Manip 2 (First Half)

[Mr. Bambu]

"In Paper Mario Color Splash, the main point of the game is paint. Paint is a concept. As shown in the game, paint encompasses everything. And I mean everything. Paint is shown to be all of land, liquid, life (Once bringing Toad back via paint, Huey states that paint gives life. Additionally, paint can return the blood, organs, and skin to an old fossil that's been dead years ago), mind (Paint can speak to your mind by coloring your thoughts. Paint was able to take over Bowser's body and freely act on their own. Big Paint Stars are also shown to be alive), memory (Toad couldn't remember anything with the loss of paint on his head. Returning paint gave his memories back), emotions, space (even simple holes require paint to function as holes) and souls. Removing any paint would stop making anything work"-From the debate jungle profile which weeb has worked on

Paint is a physical thing in this world. We also see it referred to as energy a couple times (the Bowser scene up above does this, for a quick example). It doesn't define everything as many things remain defined even without paint (the ocean is still the ocean, the paint just seems to "make it go", so to speak). The rest of this really just talks about the various applications of paint, which I feel inclined to ignore.

If that was genuinely the primary evidence for paint being conceptual, I will still absolutely move to revoke it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Paint is a physical thing in this world. We also see it referred to as energy a couple times (the Bowser scene up above does this, for a quick example). It doesn't define everything as many things remain defined even without paint (the ocean is still the ocean, the paint just seems to "make it go", so to speak). The rest of this really just talks about the various applications of paint, which I feel inclined to ignore.

If that was genuinely the primary evidence for paint being conceptual, I will still absolutely move to revoke it.

Agreed wholeheartedly with this.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I'll go ask weeb since he made the blog on his thoughts

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'll go ask weeb since he made the blog on his thoughts

You're free to, but IIRC he left. Don't overly harass the man.

 

[deonment]

bump

 

[deonment]

bump

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Paint is a physical thing in this world. We also see it referred to as energy a couple times (the Bowser scene up above does this, for a quick example). It doesn't define everything as many things remain defined even without paint (the ocean is still the ocean, the paint just seems to "make it go", so to speak). The rest of this really just talks about the various applications of paint, which I feel inclined to ignore.

If that was genuinely the primary evidence for paint being conceptual, I will still absolutely move to revoke it.

There are more examples besides the ones Deontment listed, coins are unpickable without Paint, Toads are just vague shilloutetes without Paint, Water Wheels do not move without Paint, fire does not work without paint, even 3D objects are flat shilloutes without paint, plus the things that Deontment listed are not just applications, it's proof that Paint in a sense makes up everything and when if removed it is undefined

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Here's an issue, paint is only physical once you extract it. Stuff like space nor ghosts are physical things, but somehow they can remove paint from both. Obviously you can't "touch" space, so you can't remove it by conventional means. Paint is literally a part of space. How you remove it is beyond me. The ocean is still an ocean, but it won't work like an ocean. It's no longer a liquid, you don't get wet nor go in it. You can't interact with anything that has no paint.

Also, mind giving me a summary for each arguments after being begged like 10 times to comment here.

 

[DaReaperMan]

We shot down a few things

from what I'm seeing we are pretty much finishing up right now so ill give my two cents on everything

Conceptual Manipulation: probably type 3, I see no reason to give type 2 for that and type 4 is REALLY underselling it

Soul Manipulation: no, that looks like NPI and negation of invisibility more then anything else

Matter Manipulation: that doesn't look like matter manip to me, plain and simple

Space Manipulation: agreed!

Mind Manipulation: agreed!

Memory Manipulation: agreed!

Poison Manipulation: agreed!

4th Wall Interaction: that could easily be Mario's Eyes getting covered with paint, such as with certain shooter games when you get shot and a blood filter plastered across the screen, so nah

Empathic Manipulation, Status Effect Inducetment: Empathetic Manip covers this perfectly fine, other then that agreed

Biological Manipulation,Resurrection and Healing(Mid-High): Ressurection and healing cover that just fine

Statistics Amplification: thats pretty much Rage Power, so denied

Statistics Reduction: apsolutely not

Corruption(Type 2), Possession: Corruption covers that just fine, agreed with corruption no to possession

Possible Pain Manipulation: taking damage is not pain manipulation, cause at that point I have pain manip by punching someone

Memory Manipulation: agreed with

Death Manipulation: absolutely not, it was discussed above why, but they should get Life Manipulation

Existence Erasure:

i did just say pain manipulation and statistics reduction in place of status effect inducement didn't I? yes i agree with that

This is pretty much what has been accepted so far, unless I missed something

Bambu called the concept manip itself into question and disagrees with it, and if the below is the basis for it I disagree with it as well.

"In Paper Mario Color Splash, the main point of the game is paint. Paint is a concept. As shown in the game, paint encompasses everything. And I mean everything. Paint is shown to be all of land, liquid, life (Once bringing Toad back via paint, Huey states that paint gives life. Additionally, paint can return the blood, organs, and skin to an old fossil that's been dead years ago), mind (Paint can speak to your mind by coloring your thoughts. Paint was able to take over Bowser's body and freely act on their own. Big Paint Stars are also shown to be alive), memory (Toad couldn't remember anything with the loss of paint on his head. Returning paint gave his memories back), emotions, space (even simple holes require paint to function as holes) and souls. Removing any paint would stop making anything work"-From the debate jungle profile which weeb has worked on

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Let me also give my two cents.

Let me just say what I DO disagree with.

Statistics Amp: Sorry, but that's moreso just Mario's emotions getting the better of him. When you're raged, you naturally attack faster and more aggressive.

4th Wall Breaking: Uh, this one isn't wrong, just moreso not an ability from paint users itself.

Stat Reduction: Same as before.

Pain Manipulation: It's just... taking damage.

Existence Erasure: Hard no. Simple death animation that we see in literally every Mario RPG.

Everything else I am a hard agree for. At the moment I am firm on concept manipulation. What I would also add is Power Null, adding paint means Mario can only use certain colored attacks. Generally I am very late, and I really don't feel like reading both parts. Personally I wish Deon or anyone didn't make the thread, since I can see it was just a copy and paste from my older deleted blog. I would much prefer if I can have a re-do on this thread.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hmmm, should we close this thread and wait until you want to remake it then?

 

[DatOneWeeb]

That would be very much helpful, keeping up with both this and the other threads make this difficult to give my focus on.

 

[TUHTPeaSkull12]

oh well, I don't see why not, after all it would be better to have everything more orderly rather than having several threads unnecessarily.

 

[DaReaperMan]

.

Can you close this thread, DatOneWeeb will remake it at a later date

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[ElixirBlue]

This thread should be closed if its done

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Well, a new thread from Blaze being made likely isn't happeneing so we either have another person make it or discuss it here still.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Probably discuss it here since DatOneWeeb left the wiki I presume

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Anyways, even if concept manip is denied, we should still add every other ability that paint has shown. All of the ones Weeb/Blaze said are bad should be counted out and I think Bambu also disagreed with them too, so the Stat ones, Pain, EE, and 4th wall breaking should be considered moot.

Everything else I guess we all can discuss.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Conceptual Manipulation: denied.

Soul Manipulation: no, that looks like NPI and negation of invisibility more then anything else

Matter Manipulation: that doesn't look like matter manip to me, plain and simple

Space Manipulation: agreed!

Mind Manipulation: agreed!

Memory Manipulation: agreed!

Poison Manipulation: agreed!

4th Wall Interaction: that could easily be Mario's Eyes getting covered with paint, such as with certain shooter games when you get shot and a blood filter plastered across the screen, so nah

Empathic Manipulation, Status Effect Inducetment: agreed.

Biological Manipulation,Resurrection and Healing(Mid-High): Ressurection and healing cover that just fine

Statistics Amplification: thats pretty much Rage Power, so denied

Statistics Reduction: apsolutely not

Corruption(Type 2), Possession: Corruption covers that just fine, agreed with corruption no to possession

Possible Pain Manipulation: taking damage is not pain manipulation, cause at that point I have pain manip by punching someone

Memory Manipulation: agreed with

Death Manipulation: absolutely not, life manipulation is better.

Existence Erasure:

This is my updated two cents on everything

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I think with the soul thing I think it's more that Mario can drain the paint from spirits/ghosts like Boos, showing that paint makes up souls too and can have their paint drained.

But I dunno.

I still think Concept Manip is worth more discussing personally. Specifically the altering part since it turns whatever is drained into a lifeless white blank space, making liquids solid and losing all momentum and disabling functions otherwise naturally instilled into them via the laws of the world. Space a large hole suddenly becomes a blank walkable void just like the water. Clouds in the background of a level won't start moving until after paint is returned. Coins which blink away into Mario's pockets cannot be collected. There's likely tons more as well. These examples have to count for something. It would feel odd not labeling this very clear effect of paint being drained and opt to completely ignore it.

Even if it's not concept manipulation it has to be something I feel.

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump