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Marco Diaz vs. Izuku Midoriya

This is in character. Has Marco ever bfr'd someone with his scissors in character mid fight as an opening move? Also, in order to bfr Deku in the first place, he'd have to force him back into the portal, then close it before he can come back. Very unlikely considering the difference in strength. And, of course, the fact that this is in character. Only way I see the scissors being used is if Marco realizes he can't win, which is not gonna happen before Deku puts a hole in his chest. Also, what feats does Marco's sword have? I understand how bladed weapons work, but I fail to see how just having a sword lets him overcome an over 4x difference in strength and durability. Regardless of how good the sword is, if the force behind Marco's swing is too weak, it's not cutting Deku. Unless the magic sword amps Marco from baseline to +, the sword stops at Deku's skin and he punches Marco once and kills him. Please elaborate on the sword. Also, I feel like Deku's intelligence is being completely overlooked. You guys are acting like he's just going to stand in one spot and stare at Marco like an idiot until he comes close. You're underestimating Deku's use of the environment and analysis of his opponent. Since this is SBA, Deku has plenty of buildings in New York he can use to jump with, further keeping him away from any portal Marco might make. Deku can also break the terrain with his Iron Soles to make it hard for Marco to get his balance, while he can easily maneuver through it. Deku has enough lifting strength in this key to throw projectiles like cars at Marco as well if range is an issue. So far, there doesn't even seem to be a lot going for Marco outside of BFR unless the Sword is better than I'm giving it credit for. As of right now, Deku outmaneuvers and one shots Marco in the first minute of the fight.
 
1) your forgetting the experince marco has over deku. It's unlikley deku would just "outmaneuver" marco and one shot marco. with that being said marco could last minute bfr him if he needed to by dodging (from better experience) opening a portal and closing it. He did this to get away from a monster in season 1 (which was before he even his own sissors or experience). More over last secound he could cut deku directly with the sissors which would ignore durability (this might only be a thing bloodlusted).

2) The sword can pierce hekapoo clones who have similar durabilty to her as well as cutting incorporial monsters who guarded the neverblade. EDIT: it also was made to seal a fire demon capable of burning down a mountian sized castle. He also blocked stars most potent spells (which are 8-B) with normal weapons. but tbh it doesnt matter anyway because even if deku's dura is higher as he pointed out before he doesn't need to apply that much pressure and his dura doesn't negate all damage below it. Baseline 8-C* can still damage deku so with a sword it can diffinetly cut him. Plus it doesn't make any sense to say deku couldn't be cut his power doesn't give him super armor.

3) Marco also has a dragon cycle for mobility which he can summon and use even when he's not an adult.
 
Deku has tanked 8-C force above baseline. Marco's not hurting him with the sword.

This is 8-C Marco, the 8-B feats mean nothing.
 
Again the sword mechanics; the pierceing effect of full 8-C physical force behind a sword makes up the dura, plus deku hasn't been shown to be able to not be pierced. That feat was for the sword not marco; I was saying normal weapons in star can tank 8-B damage and marcos never blade is better than a normal weapon.
 
Composite Marco? The profile is not composite, so you should use the version of Marko that had that sword, although it's probably going to break anyway considering Recipro Burst Iida easily broke Stain's sword.
 
But 5% deku isn't as strong as lida's recipro burst. Though I'm pretty sure that wouldn't break the neverblade since normal iron weapons in star don't break under 8-B pressure so the neverblade being a top tier weapon thats vaguely magic it probably doesnt break unless you have atleast 8-A power (though it just says vaguely higher for lida's burst so idk).
 
If the sword the blocked 8-B power was just a regular sword, then that's probably just an outlier for the sword.
 
"Baseline 8-C can damage deku" prove this statement. Deku is over 4x baseline 8-C, so I would like an anti feat or scaling that implies that he can be injured in any way by baseline. Your point about the scissors is ignoring what I said about Marco will only use them if he thinks he's losing and can't win, which he won't realize unless he already has a hole punched through him. Also, don't put "outmaneuver" in quotations as if you've provided a reason for Deku not doing so. Just saying "Marco has experience tho" isn't a good enough argument as to how he deals with Deku bouncing all over the battlefield like a ping pong ball, destroying the terrain and analyzing every step Marco takes. Also, Deku can block the Neverblade with his iron soles, which have 8-B durability. So there's that counter. The dragon cycle is irrelevant unless Marco is going to try and stall Deku out, which isn't likely considering Deku has higher stamina. He still needs to get close to Deku to hit him, and since it's speed equal, he's just become a big flying target Deku can dodge. The best possible outcome for Marco in this fight is to one hit kill Deku with the Neverblade near the beginning of the match, which isn't likely considering Deku isn't an idiot that stands still when a more skilled opponent has a weapon that can hurt him, see the Stain fight. Stain, who has far, FAR more experience than him, and probably more experience than Marco as well, could only get small cuts and slashes on Deku, which worked in his favor because of his quirk. And advantage that Marco doesn't have. Deku has more maneuvering options than Marco, better AP, better Dura, better stamina, and better mid fight analysis unless I'm missing something that isn't just being hand waved away as "experience". Scissors are useless, Neverblade isn't going to one shot with Deku's skill, and the dragon cycle doenst help at all unless Marco wants to stall. I don't see how Deku loses this fight.
 
Wait, he's only 4x above baseline? In that case, he gets hurt fine. I've seen characters overcome 5x or even 6x gaps with skill alone. You generally need to be 7.5x stronger than someone to one-shot so Deku can't do that either if the gap is that small.
 
Bluethedragon233 said:
But 5% deku isn't as strong as lida's recipro burst.
Click to expand...
He is actually stronger, since we don't scale Stain Saga Iida from 1.05/1.07 tons Izuku, under the pretext that Izuku became stronger in the following sagas.
 
The Wright Way said:
Wait, he's only 4x above baseline? In that case, he gets hurt fine. I've seen characters overcome 5x or even 6x gaps with skill alone. You generally need to be 7.5x stronger than someone to one-shot so Deku can't do that either if the gap is that small.
Click to expand...
He is stronger than people who can one-shot baseline 8-C characters.
 
You guys are acting like Marco is Kharn with this "experience wins" argument. Stain spent his entire life, trying to become a hero, and when that didn't work, spent every year of his life afterwards as a vigilante, then a hero killer. If Stain was about the same age as Deku when he got to hero school, that means Stain has been honing his skills for 16 years as well since he's 31, not counting the years beforehand. If anything, this fight will just be a repeat of the Stain fight for Deku, except here, he's dealing with someone who lived a dangerous life instead of someone who spent their existence entirely devoted to killing heroes. You can guess which one Deku will have a harder time with. Without a quirk like stains, which was the main factor for how Stain could beat Deku in the first place despite the skill gap, I don't see how Marco manages to finish this fight fast enough before Midoriya has him figured out and hits him.
 
arguement about him not standing still: what? why do I think I think he's just gonna be standing still? Marco can block bullets and has block attacks from under or behind him when fighting incorporial monsters. He also fights hekapoo who is older than anyone in the my hero universe and can move around a planet in 4 secounds and teleport. Marco can for sure react to his bouncing and reconize his opponents strength. He can for sure bfr if he needs to. Stain isn't anywhere close to the skill level of hekapoo who has fought millions of opponents doing the same trial she did to marco and Stain while having more specific experience does not have even a shred of the envirnmental awareness marco has. Also, you pointed out sttalling him with the dragon cycle and that is a possibilty because it wouldn't use his stanima to use the dragon cycle cause it's a living creature

EDIT: Also yall act like deku fought stain straight up. he had a partner and prep.
 
Normal weapons have consistantly 8-B durability in star vs because monsters have 8-B dura (can survive stars spells) and can be killed with normal weapons (mewny knights). Marco should be able to block dekus attack with the neverblade and because he's also more experienced he could dodge away. Also sissors can be used to dodge large attacks as well because small potals in space are possible (portaling behind him or away from him).
 
Dude, 8-C versions are being used. The 8-B feats don't matter. 8-B sword durability isn't on the profiles.
 
Most of the feats you mentioned in trying to flex how strong Marco is are irrelevant because it's speed equal, and we've already established that Deku is far stronger and more durability than Marco outside of the his sword, which I brought up gets blocked by the iron soles and dodged because Deku isn't an idiot. Your point about Hekapoo just makes Marco's experience gap that much more questionable when applied to this specific fight. Hekapoo has millions of years of life to rely on, and it took Marco 16 to beat her trial. How many of those millions of years were spent with Hekapoo training or honing her skills? Is Hekapoo some kind of martial arts, close combat god? Is she the strongest in the verse through experience alone? What experience did fighting Hekapoo give Marco? Now I'm more curious whether he has ANY experience that would matter in this fight outside of fighting some monsters. Hekapoo gave Marco a task, and he accomplished it. I would love to hear the specifics of this task, how he beat each and every one of Hekapoos clones, and what skills and abilities of Hekapoos he's actually overcome before I accept him out skilling her just because he beat the trial. And for your dragon cycle point, that makes the dragon cycle outside help if anything. So now I'm going to call into question if he can use it all in this fight. Having a completely separate creature assist him sounds like a 1v2, which isn't allowed since it's no outside help. If Deku could summon a dragon and order it to just carry him around while setting everything on fire, that would be outside help. Similar to the dragon cycle.
 
1) again marco isn't 8-B because his sword can survive a 8-B hit. I'm just saying Marco has a sword deku can't break and can damage him with (nessesarily 1 shot) Note: the 8-B key marco has now is describing adult him who is physically 8-B there are no stats for his tools

2) I literally listed skill he had to overcome that she used on him on screen. Also about hekapoo, probably all of her years can be spent fighting because she clones herself for the trial while the real her is just chilling at home and she her clones share a mind. Marco completing her trial in 16 years is impressive because she says that most take lifetimes to complete the task.

3) The dragon cycle is a tool marco is listed to have and the OP didn't say no summons. Plus it's not out of character for marco to enter a battle on his dragon cycle. Note: deku really doesn't need to worry about dragon breath that much since it's been shown to have a pretty short range for dragon cycles. It's basically a flying, living, motorcycle that can also bite deku.
 
Again, just baseline Tier 8-C force BEHIND AN EDGED WEAPON LIKE A SWORD can hurt someone with durability way, way higher than baseline 8-C.

It's like people totally ignored what I said before because they want Deku to win so badly. I will use the same example now that I used before: If they had an extremely sharp sword as durable as Superman's body, then characters like Wonder Woman or Supergirl could literally cut Superman in half EASILY even if using only a quarter of their full strength. Seriously. That's just how it works, physics-wise. The same amount of force behind a sword can pierce through far higher durability than that force behind a fist, because the sword has a sharp edge and thus the pressure is far higher.

This is about pressure, not pure force or K-E. Deku uses fists/feet/fingertips, Marco uses the edge of an extremely sharp sword; Marco could have physical force equal to only a tenth of Deku's durability, but would still be able to cut him.

But I mean hey, if people wanna just go and ignore basic physics and pretend that pressure (as opposed to pure K-E or force) isn't relevant to piercing/bypassing durability because they want Deku to win so badly, then go right ahead I suppose.

There are literally multiple entire threads on this wiki about the fact that sharp, edged weapons can allow weaker characters to pierce the durability of stronger ones. Far too often though, people simply ignore this fact and act like "well if this guy's AP/Dura is higher, then obviously he stomps" while ignoring other aspects of the physics of durability such as pressure when one character uses weapons and the other uses fists.
 
The SVTFOE profiles are a mess right now, why does everyone have 8-C to 8-B physically with no calculations? It would be easier if someone took their best feat and calculated it, instead of giving them random tiers based on nothing more than an assumption.
 
OP also didn't specify if Deku is limited to 5% or just starts in it, and can go higher if he wants, making this fight a finger flick one shot, but you don't see me bringing it up.

Regardless, as I said before, if the dragon cycle is used to stall Deku out, it's not gonna work, unless it can fight for hours straight without letting up. Deku has stamina reserves to spare, and can easily just dodge the dragon cycle if it tries to attack him. Or he can throw a car at it if it gets on his nerves. Or kick it and kill it. Flying enemies are not a surprise to Deku, especially highly mobile ones, ergo Bakugou.

Back to the experience point, I still don't see how accomplishing Hekapoos trial makes him such an outstanding fighter that we have to overlook everything else about this debate. Please answer me in a clear and concise way; what combat skills did Marco gain from fighting Hekapoo that make this match a skill stomp? How does Marco outskill Deku fast enough and early enough in the fight to not be one shot, when Deku's reactions and own skill have saved him against opponent with superior skill before? Unless Marco is like Batman and has mastered hundreds of martial arts and skills and can analyze his opponents with just a glance, I don't see how he finishes this fight fast enough.

Also, I just realized I've been downplaying the AP difference. Deku has 2x his AP with his kicks due to his iron soles practically doubling the force. So now Marco is dealing with possibly a 9x difference of AP if Izuku decides to kick once. Interesting, but I'll see if there's a problem. And I don't care if Neverblade can break or not, what matters is that Deku doesn't get lethally hit with it. In fact, with the AP difference, I can argue that Deku can just kick the sword out of Marco's hands if Marco tries to block him.

Also, let's set some rules here; is Marco summoning the bike or starting with it? I can adapt my argument around either side.

Goody, calm the down. No one has made the argument that the sword can't cut Deku for quite some time now. I have, however, made the argument that the iron soles block the sword. Which no one addressed, so I assume is accepted. Whether Marco can cut Deku is irrelevant anyway if he can't kill Deku fast enough to not get one shot.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Goody, calm the down. No one has made the argument that the sword can't cut Deku for quite some time now. I have, however, made the argument that the iron soles block the sword. Which no one addressed, so I assume is accepted. Whether Marco can cut Deku is irrelevant anyway if he can't kill Deku fast enough to not get one shot.
Click to expand...
Ah, okay. Yes, the iron soles could block the sword. But Marco is far more skilled and experienced. This guy managed to track down and defeat hundreds of clones of a Tier Low 2-C being (Hekapoo) with literal millions of years of experience and skill, using just his wits, skill, and a magical-durability-bypassing sword. Same guy can go like one-on-six against trained knights, and completely casually dodge all their attacks. Based on that, I honestly doubt that Deku COULD block all of Marco's attacks, especially when he would have to block them exclusively with the soles of his feet. And I also highly doubt that Deku could land any hits on him. Marco's experience and skill trumps that of beings who are far older, more skilled, and more experienced than anyone who exists in the MHA universe.

Saying "we don't know if he stays at 5% or just starts at it" is a silly ploy to try to get Deku to win this. If the conditions of the battle say "5% Deku" then that is obviously meant to mean that he stays at/is restricted to his 5% state. When the conditions of a battle state something like this, we assume the character stays restricted to that state unless stated otherwise. Like if we put "Base Goku" in a battle against someone, we're not allowed to then just suddenly be like "well then he can just go Super Saiyan and stomp roflmao Goku ftw."

Speed is equalized here. Star herself fought against Marco, and if none of her spells including the best ones were able to land a hit on Marco, I highly doubt that Deku could land any hits.

While it is true that Deku has beaten more skilled/experienced opponents, none of them were as skilled or experienced as the people Marco has fought. Gentle Criminal and Overhaul, for example, both avoided actual combat whenever possible. Stain doesn't count since it wasn't one-on-one. I actually like MHA more than SVTFOE, so I'm not even biased in favor of Marco; I'm just trying to be objective and call things the way they really are.
 
You don't need to learn a specific skill in order to have good experience (technically he specifically knows karate and wool-fu). SInce marco has the sword which can block dekus hits and more experience for more experienced fighters he wins because it's speed equal. deku can't just kick the out of his hands because marco has longer reach and can block with 2 hands, also since midorya has higher AP when marco blocks him it will move him farther away putting deku in a worse position.
 
Oh wow, someone that actually has feats to back up Marco's skill. Was wondering why this thread felt so 1 dimensional.

Also, I wasn't implying that I was ever going to use a higher percentage Deku to cheese out a win, I know what the OP was implying by saying 5%. I said that in counter to Blue saying Marco could summon his dragon bike, which I argued fairly against anyway, just because OP didn't specify no summoning. Every argument that has been presented to me, I have argued against without attempting to bend any rules. If I pointed out something that someone else did that I didn't agree with and countered it sarcastically, that's not me trying to get a win for Deku, it's me finding faults in my opponents argument.

Anyway, now that someone actually gave me something to go off of for the skill gap, I'll retract my vote for Deku until other points are presented. If no points are presented, I'll vote Marco.
 
Does anyone have a link to the episode that shows Marco surviving a house-size explosion? Because I'm pretty sure that's only 9-A using the size of a standard house.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Oh wow, someone that actually has feats to back up Marco's skill. Was wondering why this thread felt so 1 dimensional.
Also, I wasn't implying that I was ever going to use a higher percentage Deku to cheese out a win, I know what the OP was implying by saying 5%. I said that in counter to Blue saying Marco could summon his dragon bike, which I argued fairly against anyway, just because OP didn't specify no summoning. Every argument that has been presented to me, I have argued against without attempting to bend any rules. If I pointed out something that someone else did that I didn't agree with and countered it sarcastically, that's not me trying to get a win for Deku, it's me finding faults in my opponents argument.

Anyway, now that someone actually gave me something to go off of for the skill gap, I'll retract my vote for Deku until other points are presented. If no points are presented, I'll vote Marco.
Click to expand...
Wow, you're being super reasonable in your response now that I presented feats for Marco's skill. I totally respect that, man. Yeah the fact is, Marco's skill/experience feats are freaking nutso-amazingly-absurdly-badass. Lol. Another example: His skill as a warrior is immensely respected by Brunzetta, an at-least-Millennia-old immortal Goddess of Thunder/Lightning (she is heavily based on Thor) who fights/battles constantly and lives in a dimension of constant bloodshed and strife which is populated by horrific monsters and evil magic-users. A warrior as old, badass, and experienced as Brunzetta has enough respect for Marco's abilities that she treats him as essentially an equal. Also, when Marco went one-on-six against those trained, experienced knights, he was literally yawning and acting bored the whole time while making only the most minimal/smallest possible movements.

Okay now I see what you're saying, you weren't actually trying to say he can go above 5%, you were just saying that in response to someone saying that Marco can summon Nachos (his Dragon-Cycle). Which you were definitely right to point out is a stupid argument, lmao, we have no reason to believe that Marco can summon Nachos for this battle unless that has been outright stated.

Edit: It's also worth noting that Marco has a means to BFR Deku if he wants to avoid having to cut him with his sword due to staying in-character. Marco can create as many portals as he wants with his dimensional-scissors, and all he has to do is push Deku through even one of them and then close it.
 
Here is the calc.

The explosion was decently large, but since it couldn't destroy most of the wood fences around it, I had to use a low overpressure, making the result much lower.
 
Schnee One said:
AP stompi for Izuku
Click to expand...
Again: Already debunked this due to the fact that Izuku uses fists and feet while Marco uses an edged-weapon. An edged weapon allows someone to harm a person with far higher durability than their own usual AP. It's just basic physics: The same amount of force behind a smaller area (like teh edge or tip of a sword vs a fist) produces much greater pressure.
 
Here's the thing, I don't think any edged weapon has ever closed the gap between a dude and someone who can kill said dude with a single punch.
 
The Wright Way said:
Marco can't block, sword isn't durable enough. We've been over this.
Click to expand...
Ummmm you mean we've been over how it is more durable? even with marcos dura going down the dura of his sword is still can't be broken by deku. also @therefir thats what that video i posted us

EDIT: Actual footage of marco blocking stars spider with a top hat blalst (used to defeat house sized wolves) and there normal iron weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWibnAUFN8
 
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