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Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

"No, this is not philosophy. This is about the world, about order, about magic. We are outside the logic of the world. We are the only ones. How could you be outside the world's order, outside its framework?"

"I don't think so. For example, don't you think? Our being outside of reason is proof that there is an outside to this world. There is a higher order at work. Our roots just happened to flow in from the outside by mistake."

"The world is a very different place. Maybe this world is a fake box garden made by someone else, and that's why I seek hatred and ugliness."

"I don't know if it's a box garden or the outside world. I can assure you of one thing. It is not because of anything else that your heart is rotten. You are rotten yourself."

"Militia is the Creator God. She is the order that created this world. The earth, the azure skies, and the depths of the earth are like her garden. If only Militia, the Creator God, willed, her divine eye would spread throughout the world."

Is this Anyway arguable for plot manipulation

I mean Eques being able to manipulate complete world.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
"No, this is not philosophy. This is about the world, about order, about magic. We are outside the logic of the world. We are the only ones. How could you be outside the world's order, outside its framework?"

"I don't think so. For example, don't you think? Our being outside of reason is proof that there is an outside to this world. There is a higher order at work. Our roots just happened to flow in from the outside by mistake."

"The world is a very different place. Maybe this world is a fake box garden made by someone else, and that's why I seek hatred and ugliness."

"I don't know if it's a box garden or the outside world. I can assure you of one thing. It is not because of anything else that your heart is rotten. You are rotten yourself."

"Militia is the Creator God. She is the order that created this world. The earth, the azure skies, and the depths of the earth are like her garden. If only Militia, the Creator God, willed, her divine eye would spread throughout the world."

Is this Anyway arguable for plot manipulation

I mean Eques being able to manipulate complete world.
Click to expand...
Atleast higher order ( reality can be argued for layers dimensionality scale)
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
"No, this is not philosophy. This is about the world, about order, about magic. We are outside the logic of the world. We are the only ones. How could you be outside the world's order, outside its framework?"

"I don't think so. For example, don't you think? Our being outside of reason is proof that there is an outside to this world. There is a higher order at work. Our roots just happened to flow in from the outside by mistake."

"The world is a very different place. Maybe this world is a fake box garden made by someone else, and that's why I seek hatred and ugliness."

"I don't know if it's a box garden or the outside world. I can assure you of one thing. It is not because of anything else that your heart is rotten. You are rotten yourself."

"Militia is the Creator God. She is the order that created this world. The earth, the azure skies, and the depths of the earth are like her garden. If only Militia, the Creator God, willed, her divine eye would spread throughout the world."

Is this Anyway arguable for plot manipulation

I mean Eques being able to manipulate complete world.
Click to expand...
Nah
 
Fixxed said:
Thats also mean, not only the order has govern by the duality system, but the thing that govern by order is also have duality system (like ice and flame, cold and hot..). So the duality system in order is the higher duality system (conceptual duality) that govern and ecompasess the order it self
Click to expand...
this is obvious, the whole concept is dual, death and life, flame and ice, light and dark and so on. Not only in Maou gakuin but in any other type of work
 
Last edited:
Fixxed said:
Hey i think i found something interesting

Order of Absurdity should be a nonduality or even transduality order. The order can make the duality system absurd, the order is complete unaffected and outside the duality system

It can make and govern something that neither 0 or 1 (sun and moon is duality in MGF). That order even opposite/disobey the order it self

Is even not bound by the duality of possible and impossible, existance and nonexistance, like if eques get destroyed the world will destroy, but in front of this order the world will not get destroyed. Make the impossible order to exist, exist

Even can use levina guilma, that arnos himself only can pulled it use the veneziara

Even can make the being to nihilistic state

Can even defeat god who form the fundamental of order it self and the lord god

<The evil eye of the absurdity>, its true power appeared there.

"The selection referee has been distorted and distorted by that nihilistic child. Now, the alignment of order is completely disturbed. Even though the God of Destruction and the God of Creation have revived, they have only acted for them. I have the same power. On the land, I am getting stronger. She probably wanted to ridicule this world."

Gently lifted her right and left hands, Arcana turned back to heaven.

"Snow flutters in the spring sunshine, and six flowers melt the world."

What soared from both hands was a burning ice flower.

"Spring scenery six flowers <Shunkei Rikka>"

It shined brightly like the sun, blinked like a cold moon, and its frozen flowers were burning.

One after another, the flowers gathered behind Arcana, creating a moon-like and sun-like, created an object that is neither of them.

"... What ... eh ...? This is ... order ...?"

Andelk stunnedly stares at the object created by Shunkei Rokka

It is six petals that freeze and burn.

Certainly, the order of God is there. God's power was exerting power.

"... Ah ... not ... like this ...!?"

She opens her eyes and shakes her head.

She, the four gods of Juri, who form the fundamental of order, was faced with the power of a god that impossible to exist.

"Something is wrong ...! There is no such order ... !!!"

"The moon does not rise, the sun sets, and spring illuminates a land without gods."

Arcana chanted with a quiet voice.

"<Six flowers of the absurdity> Levihel Alter"

The burning ice flowers, It emits cold air and hot air at the same time.

Originally, contradictory ice and flame co-existed without a slight conflict.

The sea of abortion is frozen and burned by its contradictory power.

The order of the Taiki Mother Sea has begun to go crazy.

Forbidden soldiers who sank to the bottom of the sea and could not move, is illuminated by <Six flowers of the absurdity>, and starts moving again.

They rescued the demon soldiers one after another.

"... Why ...? Why are you swimming in the sea of concubinage ...? The undesired baby is an abortion! It's an abortion!"

Andelk shines a snake abortion forceps and shouts.

A huge amount of magical power spilled over, and countless red threads appeared in the Taiki Mother Sea, but it was probably entwined with the abortion god, the main god of the sanctuary.

"Gya ...! What ... what ... then .........?

"The territory illuminated by Levihel Alter, is a land of absurdity. Here everything is opposite of order (disobeyed the order)."

Anderk shouts, stripping her eyes.

"That couldn't be! Isn't the concubinage disobeyed by the abortion? God is the order itself. Do you think you can be disobeyed by yourself?"
.
.
.
"The sword Levine Gilma"

Six flowers of spring scenery gathered and appeared in her hand, Levine Gilma, which Ahide once called the sword of the Almighty.

Her memory was sealed and her authority as an agent was sealed.

In the past, it was necessary to use material such as a sword of ruin, but now it is different.

She regained her memory, regaining all of her authority as an agent, and regained her divine sword.

And, as the distorted selection referee progressed, the final piece was ready.

This is, the true value of Arcana as an apocalyptic god.

"This body has become an immortal god."

"Monster! Eat it ... !!"

Anderk turns his right arm into a red thread snake and feeds Arcana.

But, in front of the eternally immortal god, the aborted snake with its fangs unilaterally disappeared.

"I'm is unrivaled by order"

Quietly, Arcana unsheathed Levine Gilma.

The silver sword is exposed and shines beautifully.

A sword that would destroy its owner if left unsheathed, but it has no effect on her.

<Six flowers of the absurdity> Levihel Alter, is even disobeying (make absurd) the order of the divine sword, that it the owner will perish if it comes out.

"Order is being distorted and abuse. I am an unsettling god who draws a bow to heaven."

Arcana cut the umbilical cord of god, which connects herself to Andelk, with Levine Gilma.

“…………………… Gyaa ………… gaa ……………… a ………… ba …………”

The abortion god Andelk sways.

Losing power, she sinks into the sea of abortion.

".... Can't.... be.... the... concubinage.... plug.... in... abortion... can.... 't...."

The voice disappears, and Andelk disappears on the bright red seabed.

The order of abortion was absurd, and the positions of Andelk and Arcana were reversed.

Therefore, the abortion god was being aborted.

A terrifying power that is worthy of the name of the god of absurdity and specializes in gods.

Or it may have been prepared by Graham to destroy Eques, who was born in the selection referee.

With the manifestation of Eques and the resurrection of the God of Destruction and God of Creation, her power as an God of Apocalypse was fully awakened.

It's hard to think of it as a coincidence.

If it is Levihel Alter, who disobeys (make absurd the) order, it should be possible to incapacitate Eques, which is a aggregate of order.

All the power of Eques will belong to the God of Apocalypse.

But...

"The moon rises and the sun sets. Winter comes to a land without gods."

Arcana puts the sword Levine Gilma in a scabbard.

Then, <Six flowers of the absurdity> Levihel Alter, disappeared as if it scattered flowers.

She relaxed and drifted into the sea.

Because of her enormous power, her magical power was exhausted in a blink of an eye, even for her body as an agent.

The body and roots are exhausted, and despite winning unscathed, it has become tattered.

Given what happened at Gadeisiola, did Graham's plan be to make me a agent and gain the power of Arcana?

Or is it the calculation that you will eventually get?

I don't know, but in any case, I think that the power of the absurdity was the only way to defeat Eques, who united the power of God.

<Six flowers of the absurdity> As long as you maintain Levihel Alter, even if you destroy Eques, the world will not be destroyed.
Click to expand...
First: I don't quite understand what's going on here.

Second: What exactly would that order be? an order that exists outside the system of Dualities? or some kind of higher-than-normal duality system? as if it were some kind of conceptual duality system.
 
Guileal said:
this is obvious, the whole concept is dual, death and life, flame and ice, light and dark and so on. Not only in Maou gakuin but in any other type of work
Click to expand...
No, in maou gakuin there are a thing and a order. The thing is just govern by the order

What i mean here is, the thing have their own duality system, and the order have the duality system. So duality system in order will be in higher level

And in the transduality page it self, duality in conceptual level is exist
Transduality is the state of being wherein an entity exists independently of, and qualitatively beyond, various dual systems, ranging from very specific, limited sets of dual distinctions to duality itself on a conceptual level.
Click to expand...
 
Fixxed said:
A transduality order i would says
Click to expand...
So Anos exists outside of the order of transduality?...false TD3 for Anos🗿

Edit: I invented this out of the blue, I don't even know the requirements to have TD3, what change exactly would be made if this is basically an order of transduality? misfits would exist outside of TD2 itself, but what would that be?
 
Last edited:
Dog3352 said:
So Anos exists outside of the order of transduality?...false TD3 for Anos🗿

Edit: I invented this out of the blue, I don't even know the requirements to have TD3, what change exactly would be made if this is basically an order of transduality? misfits would exist outside of TD2 itself, but what would that be?
Click to expand...
From what I understand, the dualities in Maou Gakuin are at the conceptual level (ie higher than type 2) and from the explanation that Dereck had given a few pages ago, Anos and Graham should be TD 3. If 1-A will be removed from TD, so they'll get type 3. I believe existing out of the order of transduality fits more into type 4

Type 4 (Plurality): A state of being which is qualitatively beyond and superior to the nature of even the distinction between duality and transduality. Such characters will usually not obey the laws of normal logic at any level, and will obey completely different systems of logic altogether, up to and including those states which are beyond human comprehension. A basic example of Plurality is characters whose fundamental nature operates under many-valued or certain kinds of non-classical logic, where many different values can exist that are not true or false, 0/1/2, or any dichotomies in between. However, simply being able to use many-valued logic in a feat context does not qualify a character for this type, such characters must demonstrate true qualitative superiority to all types of dual distinctions. Naturally, only 1-A characters and up can have this type, as it exists outside all possible dual distinctions.
 
Caduz213 said:
From what I understand, the dualities in Maou Gakuin are at the conceptual level (ie higher than type 2) and from the explanation that Dereck had given a few pages ago, Anos and Graham should be TD 3. If 1-A will be removed from TD, so they'll get type 3. I believe existing out of the order of transduality fits more into type 4

Type 4 (Plurality): A state of being which is qualitatively beyond and superior to the nature of even the distinction between duality and transduality. Such characters will usually not obey the laws of normal logic at any level, and will obey completely different systems of logic altogether, up to and including those states which are beyond human comprehension. A basic example of Plurality is characters whose fundamental nature operates under many-valued or certain kinds of non-classical logic, where many different values can exist that are not true or false, 0/1/2, or any dichotomies in between. However, simply being able to use many-valued logic in a feat context does not qualify a character for this type, such characters must demonstrate true qualitative superiority to all types of dual distinctions. Naturally, only 1-A characters and up can have this type, as it exists outside all possible dual distinctions.
Click to expand...

TD 1 will get deleted, 1-A requirements will get removed as well, Type 2 will become Type 1, Type 3 will become Type 2 and same with Type 4 will become Type 3. Also Type 4.
 
Gonna drop Graham abilities addition thread tomorrow. Also lf any small addition needs to be added to any characters drop it here. I will add It in my thread.
 
One question, is there any way to resist Information Analysis without it being exactly with skill resistance, like, is there some hax that can nullify the skill?
 
Graham abilities addition

Befenguzdogma abilities addition
  1. Casualty manipulation
  2. Logic Manipulation
  3. Durability Negation
  4. Conceptual manipulation (type 2) (can interact with source)
His own abilities
  1. Magic
  2. Enhanced Senses,
  3. Flight,
  4. Healing,
  5. Teleportation
  6. Supernatural Willpower
  7. Magic Eyes of Purple Destruction
  8. Existence Eraser (Whatever comes in contact with Graham nothingness turns into nothingness)
  9. Higher degree NEP 2 (up to infinite layers of nonexistance), and the explanation about this must incluce the transduality part, so that people will not misunderstand and consider his NEP 2 under transduality, in fact his NEP 2 is infinitely superior to his TD 2
  10. Photographic Memory ( can store memories in crystals)
  11. Dimensional storage (has dimensional storage)
  12. Absorption ( all types) ( whovever head he takes and replaces with his own gets their power and appearance)
  13. Forcefield Creation & space-time manipulation ( created dimensional barriers to block eges spear which Transcends space time)
  14. Necromancy & Summoning ( can resurrect & summon whoever he killed and make them fight for him)
  15. Stealth Mastery & Invisibility (He can make himself Invisible with phantom mimicry and has experience and abilities of Celis who had Stealth Mastery)
  16. Transduality type 2 and Acausality type 5 Negation (stated to able to negate Anos destructive power and turn it into Nothingness. Anso source is TD 2 and Acausality type 5)
  17. Immortality negation (1,2,3,4,5&8) ( whovever gets their heads removed by Graham gets their Immortality negated)
  18. Resistance to resistance negation to HGR ( Infinite layers, can Regenerate even after getting erased for infinity inside Anos source)
  19. Greater Resistance to powernull and Existence eraser (Unaffected by magic eyes of purple destruction)
  20. Resistance to Fear Manipulation, death manipulation & Pain Manipulation (Can sense Anos' magic power and remain unafraid, and not die)

Need some help with this

BFR - Not sure anyone tell me does Graham negating Anos Resurrection and tried to send him to heavens considered as BFR?

Guys tell me if anything need be added to Graham. I am gonna drop the thread after some input.
 
Last edited:
EldemadeDityjon said:
Conceptual manipulation (type 2) (can interact with source)
Click to expand...
Irrelevant, It already has type 1 so no need type 2.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Logic Manipulation
Click to expand...
proof?
EldemadeDityjon said:
Resistance to resistance negation to HGR ( Infinite layers, can Regenerate even after getting erased for infinity inside Anos source)
Click to expand...
He already has Resistance to HGR but not at that degree, this should also apply as layered HGR negation for Venuz and Anos' source? Maybe MEoCD as well?
EldemadeDityjon said:
BFR - Not sure anyone tell me does Graham negating Anos Resurrection and tried to send him to heavens considered as BFR?
Click to expand...
No

Everything else seems fine at paper but you need scans.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
NEP type 2 ( infinite layers)
Click to expand...
I think you must write the "higher degree"

Higher degree NEP 2(up to infinite layers of nonexistance), and the explanation about this must incluce the transduality part, so that people will not misunderstand and consider his NEP 2 under transduality, in fact his NEP 2 is infinitely superior to his TD 2

EldemadeDityjon said:
Resistance to resistance negation to HGR ( Infinite layers, can Regenerate even after getting erased for infinity inside Anos source)
Click to expand...
I think this not gonna work, and if this get accepted i think this useless because his infinite layer of NEP 2
 
Dereck03 said:
Irrelevant, It already has type 1 so no need type 2.
Click to expand...
I mean Anos profile also has type 1 and 2 so adding it would be fine.
Dereck03 said:
proof?
Click to expand...
Well it makes what shouldn't be happen and vice versa and pared with Venozdonor
Dereck03 said:
He already has Resistance to HGR but not at that degree, this should also apply as layered HGR negation for Venuz and Anos' source? Maybe MEoCD as well?
Click to expand...
Yeah but I will add anos and other characters abilities in new thread. If this accepted then that can be easier
Dereck03 said:
Everything else seems fine at paper but you need scans.
Click to expand...
I have few scans now. Need to find some. I will drop the thread later
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Gonna drop Graham abilities addition thread tomorrow. Also lf any small addition needs to be added to any characters drop it here. I will add It in my thread.
Click to expand...
Add infinite layers of resistance negation for venuzdonor. Its capable of destroying graham to ad infinitum without any need to increase its potency
 
Fixxed said:
I think you must write the "higher degree"

Higher degree NEP 2(up to infinite layers of nonexistance), and the explanation about this must incluce the transduality part, so that people will not misunderstand and consider his NEP 2 under transduality, in fact his NEP 2 is infinitely superior to his TD 2


I think this not gonna work, and if this get accepted i think this useless because his infinite layer of NEP 2
Click to expand...
Ok gonna replace the explanation with this
Orioreeem said:
Are you talking about that time when he tried to reincarnate Anos?
Click to expand...
Yeah
 
Don't really know how we would index the "reincarnating Anos" feat so maybe bfr works but then again anos being bfr'd is more so a verse mechanic where if you get reincarnated you wouldn't ressuract at the same place where you got reincarnated but rather in a different one. It's some incap method
 
Orioreeem said:
Don't really know how we would index the "reincarnating Anos" feat so maybe bfr works but then again anos being bfr'd is more so a verse mechanic where if you get reincarnated you wouldn't ressuract at the same place where you got reincarnated but rather in a different one. It's some incap method
Click to expand...
Yeah kinda confused how that works. But it looks like a bfr but it's not. But it's definitely combat applicable as Immortality type 3&4 getting negged by Graham.
 
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