Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

[Dereck03]

Can you explain how moving in time by sheer speed isn't immesurerable Speed? I am not claiming Eugo is immeasurable speed. But i wanna know what not qualifies that.

he accelerated his time, he did not move by his own speed, besides, he does not seem to do it by his own speed but by manipulating time.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

he accelerated his time, he did not move by his own speed, besides, he does not seem to do it by his own speed but by manipulating time.

Oh ok BTW is null gonna give his input on infinite Speed thread. I already got 3 staff agreeing and one staff neutral. If he is gonna reply I am gonna wait otherwise we should apply the changes and close the thread.

 

[Dereck03]

Oh ok BTW is null gonna give his input on infinite Speed thread. I already got 3 staff agreeing and one staff neutral. If he is gonna reply I am gonna wait otherwise we should apply the changes and close the thread.

We can't drag out something that has already been fully accepted by waiting for Null and I don't know if he wants to give his input either so do as you please.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

We can't drag out something that has already been fully accepted by waiting for Null and I don't know if he wants to give his input either so do as you please.

Oh Ok

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What do you mean exactly?

I mean giving Venozdonor and MEOCD abilities based on other characters Abilities in the verse.

For example if a character has immunity or Immortality or something in the MGF it can destroy that reason like we can argue in cross over battle.

For example Sasha vs some RANDOM character

That randon character has broken ability but that ability also is introduced in MGF So we use assumption like Venozdonor can neg that randon character ability. But the thing is Venozdonor never shown to neg that ability because it never came in contact in the MGF verse. But as we know venozdonor purpose is to destroy every reason in the verse so we give the ability to Venozdonor to destroy that reason and neg that RANDOM character broken ability.

Well saying Venozdonor negs Everything in the verse may look like NLF. But so far it shown to be neg every reason except for users.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I guess we can upgrade Eugo's speed to Infinite via time acceleration.

The voice that had been at a distance mere moments ago spoke directly into my ear—by accelerating his own time, Ivis was able to approach me in practically zero seconds... and thrust his right arm through my stomach.

This was same case like Rimuru... it says via time acceleration. As much as I said, it is via ability I assume. So ya

 

[Fixxed]

I mean giving Venozdonor and MEOCD abilities based on other characters Abilities in the verse.

For example if a character has immunity or Immortality or something in the MGF it can destroy that reason like we can argue in cross over battle.

Sasha vs some RANDOM character

That randon character has broken ability but that ability also is introduced in MGF So we use assumption like Venozdonor can neg that randon character ability. But the thing is Venozdonor never shown to neg that ability because it never came in contact in the MGF verse. But as we know venozdonor purpose is to destroy every reason in the verse so give the ability to Venozdonor to destroy that reason and neg that RANDOM character broken ability.

Well saying Venozdonor negs Everything in the verse may look like NLF. But so far it shown to be neg every reason except for users.

That seems little bit NLF, but because reason is encompasses and govern all things in MGF it will be fine i think, like nothingness cant be destroy but is only a reason

Even infinite is only a reason

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That seems little bit NLF, but because reason is encompasses and govern all things in MGF it will be fine i think, like nothingness cant be destroy but is only a reason

Even infinite is only a reason

Yeah it seems little bit NLF. But it shouldn't be any problem with Immortality negation or resistance Negation in the verse right.

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah it seems little bit NLF. But it shouldn't be any problem with Immortality negation or resistance Negation in the verse right.

Isn't because that venuzdonoa get neg immo and resistance?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Isn't because that venuzdonoa get neg immo and resistance?

Yeah but well i am planning to upgrade Evansmana and anos eyes Immortality type 9 negation Abilities. So as a reason destruction sword which negs reason in the verse that also should be included for Venozdonor that's what I think. Like this few other abilities should be added if possible.

 

[Caduz213]

Quero dizer, dar habilidades a Venozdonor e MEOCD com base em habilidades de outros personagens no verso.

Por exemplo, se um personagem tem imunidade ou imortalidade ou algo no MGF, ele pode destruir esse motivo, como podemos argumentar em uma batalha cruzada.

Por exemplo Sasha vs algum personagem ALEATÓRIO

Esse personagem randon quebrou a habilidade, mas essa habilidade também é introduzida no MGF Então, usamos a suposição de que Venozdonor pode negar essa habilidade do personagem randon. Mas o fato é que Venozdonor nunca demonstrou negar essa habilidade porque nunca entrou em contato no verso de MGF. Mas, como sabemos, o propósito de venozdonor é destruir todas as razões no verso, então damos a capacidade de Venozdonor destruir essa razão e negar essa habilidade quebrada de personagem ALEATÓRIO.

Bem dizendo Venozdonor negs Tudo no verso pode parecer NLF. Mas até agora mostrou ser negativo todos os motivos, exceto os usuários.

I don't see how this couldn't work. It even makes sense to consider this knowing that reason is above all in Maou Gakuin until proven otherwise.

 

[Dereck03]

We should make a thread where it is explained that the manipulation of reason in the verse is above all, even before reason dualities mean nothing. Even natures like Graham who is above dualities and also reason is still destroyed by Venuz who is unbound and beyond reason.

 

[ImmortalDread]

We should make a thread where it is explained that the manipulation of reason in the verse is above all, even before reason dualities mean nothing. Even natures like Graham who is above dualities and also reason is still destroyed by Venuz who is unbound and beyond reason.

You mean adding this in cosmology page? Ya I agree with that

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

We should make a thread where it is explained that the manipulation of reason in the verse is above all, even before reason dualities mean nothing. Even natures like Graham who is above dualities and also reason is still destroyed by Venuz who is unbound and beyond reason.

We should give all abilities which MEOCD has to Venozdonor & vice versa. Technically reason manipulation is plot hax like whovever manipulate the reason obtains the outcome they want nonetheless
I hope we get a straightforward statement somewhere in future or Fixxed comes up with some upgrade

 

[Dereck03]

We should give all abilities which MEOCD has to Venozdonor & vice versa.

I made that very clear in the TD thread for Graham and Anos, and I think we already do that because MEoCD is capable of destroying reason to a level equal or even superior to Venuz.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I made that very clear in the TD thread for Graham and Anos, and I think we already do that because MEoCD is capable of destroying reason to a level equal or even superior to Venuz.

I have MEOCD > Venozdonor. Venozdonor can be controlled where MEOCD Passively negs when activated. Also it's orginal power of Venozdonor. We all know venozdonor is created by merging anos right eyes & Sasha god of destruction power. It's only logical.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Lets wait for 3A bubble world downgrade thread.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/infinitely-expanding.137307/

 

[Caduz213]

Vamos esperar pelo tópico de downgrade do mundo da bolha 3A.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/infinitely-expanding.137307/

It will be a futile attempt. Most likely if it happens it will be quickly closed

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It will be a futile attempt. Most likely if it happens it will be quickly closed

Well I am just gonna copy paste what I explained to him yesterday that's if he ever makes a thread with that half knowledge on the verse.

 

[Fixxed]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/small-revision-for-maou-gakuin.138845/

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler: Chapter 502

「僕の世界では、不適合者が多かったですが、全員この手で殺してやりましたよ。所詮、主神に選ばれる権利さえ持たない連中。適合者である我々には取る足らない存在です」

"In my world, there were many nonconformists, but I killed them all with my own hands. After all, they do not even have the right to be chosen by the Lord God. They are insignificant to us, the conformists."

I think layer 1 and above inhabitants all should get NPI and Acausality and TD 2 negation. Also HGR negation.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler: Chapter 265

　どうにも胡散臭そうな男だったがな。

　名は確か、セリスといったか。

「久しいね、背理神ゲヌドゥヌブ。生まれ変わったようだけれど、僕のことは覚えているのかい？」

　アイシャがキッと奴を睨む。

「全然知らないわよっ！」

　放たれた＜創滅の魔眼＞を、しかし、その男は真っ向から睨み返した。

　蒼い瞳が、滅紫けしむらさきに染まった魔眼と化す。

「効かない……？」

「……アノスの魔眼めに似てる……？」

　驚いたように、サーシャとミーシャが呟く。

「それは語弊があるね、背理神」

　善良そうな笑みを浮かべ、そいつは言った。

「彼の魔眼めが僕に似たんだよ。僕は、セリス・ヴォルディゴード。簡単に言えば、そう、彼の父親だよ」

「ほう」

　アイシャの前に出て、俺は同じく滅紫けしむらさきに染まった魔眼で、セリスを見据えた。

「それは初耳だな」

　ふんわりとセリスは笑い、そうして言った。

　He seemed to be a very suspicious-looking man.

　His name was Celis, I think.

"It's been a long time, Genudunub, the god of transgression. You seem to have been reborn, but do you remember me?"

　Aisha stared at him sharply.

"I don't know you at all!"

　The man stared straight back at her with the "Demon Eye of Creation and Destruction".

　The blue eyes turned into a pair of eyes dyed in a violet-purple hue.

"It doesn't work. ......?"

"It looks like ...... the evil eye of Anos. ......?"

　Sasha and Misha muttered in surprise.

"That's a misnomer, Apostasy."

　With a benevolent smile, the man said, "His evil eye is like mine.

"His evil eye is like mine. I am Cerys Voldigoad. In short, yes, I am his father."

"Oh."

　I stepped in front of Aisha and looked at Celis with the same violet eyes that had also turned violet.

"That's new news to me."

　Celis laughed softly and said.

Thid statement should be enough to give MEOPD abilities

 

[Tatsumi504]

Spoiler: Chapter 502

「僕の世界では、不適合者が多かったですが、全員この手で殺してやりましたよ。所詮、主神に選ばれる権利さえ持たない連中。適合者である我々には取る足らない存在です」

"In my world, there were many nonconformists, but I killed them all with my own hands. After all, they do not even have the right to be chosen by the Lord God. They are insignificant to us, the conformists."

I think layer 1 and above inhabitants all should get NPI and Acausality and TD 2 negation. Also HGR negation.

One, who made this statement?

Two, we don't know if they were obliterated, source and all so we can't exactly claim it's Aca5 interaction/negation

Three, we once again don't know if they were obliterated, source and all so we can't for sure say its automatic HGR negation

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

One, who made this statement?

Two, we don't know if they were obliterated, source and all so we can't exactly claim it's Aca5 interaction/negation

Three, we once again don't know if they were obliterated, source and all so we can't for sure say its automatic HGR negation

Unless you want to downgrade misfit word and nuke anos and Graham being Acausality type 5 feel free.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Spoiler: Chapter 265

　どうにも胡散臭そうな男だったがな。

　名は確か、セリスといったか。

「久しいね、背理神ゲヌドゥヌブ。生まれ変わったようだけれど、僕のことは覚えているのかい？」

　アイシャがキッと奴を睨む。

「全然知らないわよっ！」

　放たれた＜創滅の魔眼＞を、しかし、その男は真っ向から睨み返した。

　蒼い瞳が、滅紫けしむらさきに染まった魔眼と化す。

「効かない……？」

「……アノスの魔眼めに似てる……？」

　驚いたように、サーシャとミーシャが呟く。

「それは語弊があるね、背理神」

　善良そうな笑みを浮かべ、そいつは言った。

「彼の魔眼めが僕に似たんだよ。僕は、セリス・ヴォルディゴード。簡単に言えば、そう、彼の父親だよ」

「ほう」

　アイシャの前に出て、俺は同じく滅紫けしむらさきに染まった魔眼で、セリスを見据えた。

「それは初耳だな」

　ふんわりとセリスは笑い、そうして言った。

　He seemed to be a very suspicious-looking man.

　His name was Celis, I think.

"It's been a long time, Genudunub, the god of transgression. You seem to have been reborn, but do you remember me?"

　Aisha stared at him sharply.

"I don't know you at all!"

　The man stared straight back at her with the "Demon Eye of Creation and Destruction".

　The blue eyes turned into a pair of eyes dyed in a violet-purple hue.

"It doesn't work. ......?"

"It looks like ...... the evil eye of Anos. ......?"

　Sasha and Misha muttered in surprise.

"That's a misnomer, Apostasy."

　With a benevolent smile, the man said, "His evil eye is like mine.

"His evil eye is like mine. I am Cerys Voldigoad. In short, yes, I am his father."

"Oh."

　I stepped in front of Aisha and looked at Celis with the same violet eyes that had also turned violet.

"That's new news to me."

　Celis laughed softly and said.

Thid statement should be enough to give MEOPD abilities

Are these for celis eyes? Wasn't this obvious already? He should get all the abilities of Anos purple eyes with the added effect of purple lightning that incinerates what he looks at

 

[Tatsumi504]

Unless you want to downgrade misfit word and nuke anos and Graham being Acausality type 5 feel free.

I'm saying this so we won't have to nuke them.

Should we assume all misfits have HGR by default? Also, its not all the time a person is killed that their source is destroyed as well.

Its better to leave it this way for now rather than having a lot of people interacting with anos source and eventually becomes anti feats for Aca5

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Are these for celis eyes? Wasn't this obvious already? He should get all the abilities of Anos purple eyes with the added effect of purple lightning that incinerates what he looks at

Militia world Celis don't have that. Also Graham should get these abilities MEOPD

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

So....Wesnera is the literal god of BDSM?

 

[Tatsumi504]

So....Wesnera is the literal god of BDSM?

Yes

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

After reading author explanation on silver sea I think

Probably Bubble world (4D) < shallow layer bubbles 1-10 + middle worlds (5D) < deeper layers worlds until 99 layers (6D) < Abyssal world/layers (7D+). This is how silver sea works

Just saying I know Hierarchy exist for each layer but the main problem is the division made in between them. Like deeper layers concepts and shallow layer concepts.

 

[Caduz213]

Depois de ler a explicação do autor sobre o mar de prata, acho

Provavelmente mundo de bolhas (4D) < bolhas de camada rasa 1-10 + mundos do meio (5D) < mundos de camadas mais profundas até 99 camadas (6D) < mundo/camadas abissais (7D+). É assim que funciona o mar de prata

Apenas dizendo que sei que existe hierarquia para cada camada, mas o principal problema é a divisão feita entre elas. Como conceitos de camadas mais profundas e conceitos de camadas rasas.

That's if there isn't enough evidence of higher dimensions in light novel volume 11.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That's if there isn't enough evidence of higher dimensions in light novel volume 11.

There are two possible explanation one Hierarchy exist for each layer and each layers Transcends previous layers dimensionality but shallow magic is common for 1-20 layers and 20+99 layers has deep magic.

But yeah i have enough evidence to argue for above 7D things.

 

[Iiliminal]

I have a question, what happens if we put Anos vs Accelerator? Can Anos do anything against his 11D defense?

Yes, heck looking at the profiles anos could probably solo the verse, or at least incon them, I don’t see HDE or large size type 10, unless I am missing something

 

[Caduz213]

There are two possible explanation one Hierarchy exist for each layer and each layers Transcends previous layers dimensionality but shallow magic is common for 1-20 layers and 20+99 layers has deep magic.

But yeah i have enough evidence to argue for above 7D things.

Then do a CRT

 

[Fixxed]

Just realize, the world is bubble in the infinite sea

So in silver sea perspective, the world is only a infinitesimall thing like a bubble that embed in infinitely sea. So silver sea is infinitely larger and encompasses the world only as a small portion in it self (only as a bubble in the sea)

Are higher-dimensional beings infinitely larger than lower-dimensional equivalents?

In a way, yes, though not how most would think when using this word. Basically, an arbitrary object of dimension n is essentially comprised by the total sum of uncountably infinite objects of one dimension less, which may be described as lower-dimensional "slices", each corresponding to one of the infinite points of a line. For instance, a square is made of infinitely many line segments (Lined up on the y-axis), a cube of infinitely many squares (Lined up on the z-axis), and so on.

They can qualify, however, if said "higher plane" is defined as having a relationship of qualitative superiority over lower realms in one way or another, such as by perceiving them as literal fiction/unreality (or being comparatively more "real" in nature), encompassing them in an infinitesimal portion of itself, residing in a higher state of being altogether, and etc.

And thats how Yggdrasil get low 1C tier

https://vsbattles.com/threads/upgrade-yggdrasil-to-low-1c-again.137922/

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

That's not infinitesimal.

 

[Fixxed]

That's not infinitesimal.

Thats infinitesimall, i mean the world being very finite, very small in silver sea. The analogy is like a bubble in sea. The world just a subset in silver sea

 

[Dog3352]

After reading author explanation on silver sea I think

Probably Bubble world (4D) < shallow layer bubbles 1-10 + middle worlds (5D) < deeper layers worlds until 99 layers (6D) < Abyssal world/layers (7D+). This is how silver sea works

Just saying I know Hierarchy exist for each layer but the main problem is the division made in between them. Like deeper layers concepts and shallow layer concepts.

I sincerely doubt a bit that this is so, unless it is stated that being from layer 1 can go from the layer to any other tier and still affect beings from higher layers, that is, when Anos destroys a boat with one punch, and said for a character that lower tier beings shouldn't be able to destroy a higher tier boat, he doesn't seem to have specifically mentioned layer 0 beings, but anyone as long as it's a lower tier.

At the same time I do not doubt that it is so, considering how the silver sea explanations are in the WN.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Thats infinitesimall, i mean the world being very finite, very small in silver sea. The analogy is like a bubble in sea. The world just a subset in silver sea

No, by that logic, any 2-A sized being would be Low 1-C, since a single universe would be "infinitesimal" and finite to them, and we know that's not how it works.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I sincerely doubt a bit that this is so, unless it is stated that being from layer 1 can go from the layer to any other tier and still affect beings from higher layers, that is, when Anos destroys a boat with one punch, and said for a character that lower tier beings shouldn't be able to destroy a higher tier boat, he doesn't seem to have specifically mentioned layer 0 beings, but anyone as long as it's a lower tier.

At the same time I do not doubt that it is so, considering how the silver sea explanations are in the WN.

I have two different explanation. I am gonna write it later.