Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

[EldemadeDityjon]

You know, since long time ago im confused about aca 5 and TD 2

I dont get the different superiority in unbound causality and unbound causality+cannot be interacted. i mean there are no superiority between them, the only thing make them different just can be interacted and cannot. But make them in infinitely different level, one just can be aca 4 and the next is qualify for aca 5

The same thing in TD

You think is this gonna be anything useful for get plot manipulation?
Graham kinda implied it's a story and there may be someone who created it.

Well it sounds like flowery language though.

Spoiler: Chapter 370

「僕たちは、 どこから来たんだと思う?」
「お前と哲学を論ずるつもりはない」
滅紫に染まった魔眼にて、乱竄神鎌を睨む。
「いいや、これは哲学なんかじゃないよ。 世界の話、秩序の話、 魔法の 話だ。 僕たちはこの世界の理の外にいる。 僕たちだけが。 どうして、こ の世界の秩序から、 その枠組みから外れることができたんだい?」
同じく、セリス・ヴォルディゴードの力を使い、 滅紫に染まった魔眼 で奴は俺を睨み返す。
「どう考えてもおかしいじゃないか?」
乱竄神鎌ベフェヌグズドグマを、 グラハムは一閃した。
狂乱神の権能を宿したその刃は、無秩序に奴の腕を裂き、 血を滴らせ た。
「おや? ハズレだよ」
「つまらぬことを考える」
地面を蹴り、再び俺は奴に接近する。
突きだしたく根源死殺>の指先を、奴はその神鎌の刃にて受け止め る。
「そうかな? たとえば、こうは思わないかい? 僕たちが理の外にい るのは、この世界に外がある証明だって。 そこではより上位の秩序が働 く。 僕たちの根源は、たまたまなにかの間違いで外から流れてきた」
グラスド 黒き右手にく魔黒雷帝> を纏わせ、ぐっとつかみあげるも、 乱竄神鎌 はびくともしない。
「だから、 僕の心は少し人と違うのかもしれない。 この世界が、誰かが 作った紛い物の箱庭で ゆえに憎悪と醜さを求めるのかもしれない」
軽々しい声で、 奴は言った。
「ここにあるものは、めちゃくちゃにしてやっても構わないんだってね」
「妄想も大概にせよ」
　更に＜焦死焼滅燦火焚炎アヴィアスタン・ジアラ＞を重ねがけし、ぐしゃりとベフェヌグズドグマの刃を粉砕する。
「箱庭だか、外の世界だか知らぬがな。これだけは断言してやるぞ。貴様の心が腐っているのは、他のなにもののせいでもない。貴様自身が腐っているのだ」
「そうかもしれないね。だけど、君はきっと、僕と同じだと思うんだ」

"Where do you think we're from?"
'I'm not going to discuss philosophy with you."
He glared at Ranzan Shinkama with his devil's eyes dyed in purple.
"No, it's not philosophy. It is a story of the world, a story of order, a story of magic. We are out of this world. Just us. How could I have deviated from the framework of the order of the world?"
He stares back at me with the same cerise vordigord power and purple-tinged evil eyes.
"It's not right, is it?"
Graham flashed his fiery scythe, Befenugsdogma, at me.
The blade, imbued with the authority of a mad god, ripped open his arm in disorder, dripping blood.
Oh? No luck.
What a stupid idea.
Kicking the ground, I approach him again.
He catches the fingertip of the Root Death Killer with the blade of his divine sickle.
"Is that so? For example, don't you think? The fact that we are outside of reason is proof that there is something outside of this world. There is a higher order at work. Our roots just happened to flow in from the outside by mistake."
He put Kumakuro Raitei (The Evil Black Thunder Emperor) on his black-colored right hand and grabbed it, but Ranzan Kamon did not move.
"So maybe my mind is a little different from others. Maybe this world is a fake box garden created by someone else, hence my desire for hatred and ugliness."
He said in a light voice.
"I hear you don't mind messing up what's here."
"You're delusional!"
　He then piles on the Aviastan Ziara, and shatters the blade of the Befenugs Dogma with a shattering blow.
"I don't know if it's a box garden or the outside world. I can assure you of this. It is not because of anything else that your heart is rotten. You are rotten yourself."
"That may be so. But I'm sure you're just like me.'

 

[Fixxed]

You think is this gonna be anything useful for get plot manipulation?
Graham kinda implied it's a story and there may be someone who created it.

Well it sounds like flowery language though.

Spoiler: Chapter 370

「僕たちは、 どこから来たんだと思う?」
「お前と哲学を論ずるつもりはない」
滅紫に染まった魔眼にて、乱竄神鎌を睨む。
「いいや、これは哲学なんかじゃないよ。 世界の話、秩序の話、 魔法の 話だ。 僕たちはこの世界の理の外にいる。 僕たちだけが。 どうして、こ の世界の秩序から、 その枠組みから外れることができたんだい?」
同じく、セリス・ヴォルディゴードの力を使い、 滅紫に染まった魔眼 で奴は俺を睨み返す。
「どう考えてもおかしいじゃないか?」
乱竄神鎌ベフェヌグズドグマを、 グラハムは一閃した。
狂乱神の権能を宿したその刃は、無秩序に奴の腕を裂き、 血を滴らせ た。
「おや? ハズレだよ」
「つまらぬことを考える」
地面を蹴り、再び俺は奴に接近する。
突きだしたく根源死殺>の指先を、奴はその神鎌の刃にて受け止め る。
「そうかな? たとえば、こうは思わないかい? 僕たちが理の外にい るのは、この世界に外がある証明だって。 そこではより上位の秩序が働 く。 僕たちの根源は、たまたまなにかの間違いで外から流れてきた」
グラスド 黒き右手にく魔黒雷帝> を纏わせ、ぐっとつかみあげるも、 乱竄神鎌 はびくともしない。
「だから、 僕の心は少し人と違うのかもしれない。 この世界が、誰かが 作った紛い物の箱庭で ゆえに憎悪と醜さを求めるのかもしれない」
軽々しい声で、 奴は言った。
「ここにあるものは、めちゃくちゃにしてやっても構わないんだってね」
「妄想も大概にせよ」
　更に＜焦死焼滅燦火焚炎アヴィアスタン・ジアラ＞を重ねがけし、ぐしゃりとベフェヌグズドグマの刃を粉砕する。
「箱庭だか、外の世界だか知らぬがな。これだけは断言してやるぞ。貴様の心が腐っているのは、他のなにもののせいでもない。貴様自身が腐っているのだ」
「そうかもしれないね。だけど、君はきっと、僕と同じだと思うんだ」

"Where do you think we're from?"
'I'm not going to discuss philosophy with you."
He glared at Ranzan Shinkama with his devil's eyes dyed in purple.
"No, it's not philosophy. It is a story of the world, a story of order, a story of magic. We are out of this world. Just us. How could I have deviated from the framework of the order of the world?"
He stares back at me with the same cerise vordigord power and purple-tinged evil eyes.
"It's not right, is it?"
Graham flashed his fiery scythe, Befenugsdogma, at me.
The blade, imbued with the authority of a mad god, ripped open his arm in disorder, dripping blood.
Oh? No luck.
What a stupid idea.
Kicking the ground, I approach him again.
He catches the fingertip of the Root Death Killer with the blade of his divine sickle.
"Is that so? For example, don't you think? The fact that we are outside of reason is proof that there is something outside of this world. There is a higher order at work. Our roots just happened to flow in from the outside by mistake."
He put Kumakuro Raitei (The Evil Black Thunder Emperor) on his black-colored right hand and grabbed it, but Ranzan Kamon did not move.
"So maybe my mind is a little different from others. Maybe this world is a fake box garden created by someone else, hence my desire for hatred and ugliness."
He said in a light voice.
"I hear you don't mind messing up what's here."
"You're delusional!"
　He then piles on the Aviastan Ziara, and shatters the blade of the Befenugs Dogma with a shattering blow.
"I don't know if it's a box garden or the outside world. I can assure you of this. It is not because of anything else that your heart is rotten. You are rotten yourself."
"That may be so. But I'm sure you're just like me.'

の話=story about
話=talk

I dont think what mean in there is litteraly story, i think is just to desribe or explain about something

 

[Fixxed]

You think is this gonna be anything useful for get plot manipulation?
Graham kinda implied it's a story and there may be someone who created it.

Well it sounds like flowery language though.

Spoiler: Chapter 370

「僕たちは、 どこから来たんだと思う?」
「お前と哲学を論ずるつもりはない」
滅紫に染まった魔眼にて、乱竄神鎌を睨む。
「いいや、これは哲学なんかじゃないよ。 世界の話、秩序の話、 魔法の 話だ。 僕たちはこの世界の理の外にいる。 僕たちだけが。 どうして、こ の世界の秩序から、 その枠組みから外れることができたんだい?」
同じく、セリス・ヴォルディゴードの力を使い、 滅紫に染まった魔眼 で奴は俺を睨み返す。
「どう考えてもおかしいじゃないか?」
乱竄神鎌ベフェヌグズドグマを、 グラハムは一閃した。
狂乱神の権能を宿したその刃は、無秩序に奴の腕を裂き、 血を滴らせ た。
「おや? ハズレだよ」
「つまらぬことを考える」
地面を蹴り、再び俺は奴に接近する。
突きだしたく根源死殺>の指先を、奴はその神鎌の刃にて受け止め る。
「そうかな? たとえば、こうは思わないかい? 僕たちが理の外にい るのは、この世界に外がある証明だって。 そこではより上位の秩序が働 く。 僕たちの根源は、たまたまなにかの間違いで外から流れてきた」
グラスド 黒き右手にく魔黒雷帝> を纏わせ、ぐっとつかみあげるも、 乱竄神鎌 はびくともしない。
「だから、 僕の心は少し人と違うのかもしれない。 この世界が、誰かが 作った紛い物の箱庭で ゆえに憎悪と醜さを求めるのかもしれない」
軽々しい声で、 奴は言った。
「ここにあるものは、めちゃくちゃにしてやっても構わないんだってね」
「妄想も大概にせよ」
　更に＜焦死焼滅燦火焚炎アヴィアスタン・ジアラ＞を重ねがけし、ぐしゃりとベフェヌグズドグマの刃を粉砕する。
「箱庭だか、外の世界だか知らぬがな。これだけは断言してやるぞ。貴様の心が腐っているのは、他のなにもののせいでもない。貴様自身が腐っているのだ」
「そうかもしれないね。だけど、君はきっと、僕と同じだと思うんだ」

"Where do you think we're from?"
'I'm not going to discuss philosophy with you."
He glared at Ranzan Shinkama with his devil's eyes dyed in purple.
"No, it's not philosophy. It is a story of the world, a story of order, a story of magic. We are out of this world. Just us. How could I have deviated from the framework of the order of the world?"
He stares back at me with the same cerise vordigord power and purple-tinged evil eyes.
"It's not right, is it?"
Graham flashed his fiery scythe, Befenugsdogma, at me.
The blade, imbued with the authority of a mad god, ripped open his arm in disorder, dripping blood.
Oh? No luck.
What a stupid idea.
Kicking the ground, I approach him again.
He catches the fingertip of the Root Death Killer with the blade of his divine sickle.
"Is that so? For example, don't you think? The fact that we are outside of reason is proof that there is something outside of this world. There is a higher order at work. Our roots just happened to flow in from the outside by mistake."
He put Kumakuro Raitei (The Evil Black Thunder Emperor) on his black-colored right hand and grabbed it, but Ranzan Kamon did not move.
"So maybe my mind is a little different from others. Maybe this world is a fake box garden created by someone else, hence my desire for hatred and ugliness."
He said in a light voice.
"I hear you don't mind messing up what's here."
"You're delusional!"
　He then piles on the Aviastan Ziara, and shatters the blade of the Befenugs Dogma with a shattering blow.
"I don't know if it's a box garden or the outside world. I can assure you of this. It is not because of anything else that your heart is rotten. You are rotten yourself."
"That may be so. But I'm sure you're just like me.'

Yeah you can argue it to plot, because it have description in there. Although is it only a very little posibillity to being accept

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah you can argue it to plot, because it have description in there. Although is it only a very little posibillity to being accept

You know what I think Just like Graham who exist as a true nothingness even after source getting destroyed free from casualty. Anos aslo probably has some form deeper than his source free from casualty of the system.
We should argue with that. As that is not affected by anything.

 

[NIK_FARIS]

You know, since long time ago im confused about aca 5 and TD 2

I dont get the different superiority in unbound causality and unbound causality+cannot be interacted. i mean there are no superiority between them, the only thing make them different just can be interacted and cannot. But make them in infinitely different level, one just can be aca 4 and the next is qualify for aca 5

The same thing in TD

Umm, that’s not how it work. Acausality 5 is just simply above cause and effect on all level but not dual system as a whole. TD is not simply acausality5 + can’t be interact. Like you can’t normally interact with a ghost unless you have NPI. If you talking about interaction, Both of TD2 and Acausality 5 can be interact with feat but the requirements to do so is what differ. TD is not simply just about beyond cause and effect but also all form of dual system. If you have feat interact with acausality 5, it doesn’t mean you can interact with TD2 but if you have feat interact with TD, you can interact with Acausality 5. It similar cases with NEP2. They are just a form of low level transdual, it is not a full level transdual. They can’t deal with those of a true transdual like Transduality 2 or 3.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Umm, that’s not how it work. Acausality 5 is just simply above cause and effect on all level but not dual system as a whole. TD is not simply acausality5 + can’t be interact. Like you can’t normally interact with a ghost unless you have NPI. If you talking about interaction, Both of TD2 and Acausality 5 can be interact with feat but the requirements to do so is what differ. TD is not simply just about beyond cause and effect but also all form of dual system. If you have feat interact with acausality 5, it doesn’t mean you can interact with TD2 but if you have feat interact with TD, you can interact with Acausality 5. It similar cases with NEP2. They are just a form of low level transdual, it is not a full level transdual. They can’t deal with those of a true transdual like Transduality 2 or 3.

Graham states his true for is Nothingness which is even deeper than NEP type 2. Which is also unbound by causality. Also he said same thing to Anos. Both are same. So if we are gonna argue TD 2 then probably we need to argue with that.

Misfits existence is even deeper than roots which is free from casualty. As for proof even Graham was free from casualty Anos source had to absorb him.

Well this is What I think or we can say everyone from deeper layers can interact with TD 2 that's all.

You know Conformist surpasses gods power. Surpass can also mean Transcend depending on context.

Well Conformist is end of life in bubble world they evolve beyond that so that they can perceive the outside world. Literally Transcendency.

So deeper layers inhabitants already should be Transcended their system or atleast have Transcended abilities to interact with TD2.

Well this is just a theory of mine.

Well Transduality is confusing as hell.

 

[Arthex]

Transduality Type 2 means being beyond all Dualities of the verse, existence and non-existence by default are a duality in ALL verses. unless you are debating everyone in maou gakiun can interact with td2, its FAR too vague.

life and death themselves are a duality, and we know anos is bound by it, its just he can escape them. Anos is a male, while gods can be non, another anti-feat.

i am not even sure where you even got the idea of td2 from?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Transduality Type 2 means being beyond all Dualities of the verse, existence and non-existence by default are a duality in ALL verses. unless you are debating everyone in maou gakiun can interact with td2, its FAR too vague.

life and death themselves are a duality, and we know anos is bound by it, its just he can escape them. Anos is a male, while gods can be non, another anti-feat.

i am not even sure where you even got the idea of td2 from?

What's the difference between type 2 and 3 ? Both surpass duality but type 2 should be not that great as type 3

 

[Arthex]

What's the difference between type 2 and 3 ? Both surpass duality but type 2 should be not that great as type 3

Type 1: One or Several Dualities

Type 2: All Dualities Of The Verse.

Type 3: Type 2 Dualities But on 3d dimensional scale to infiniteD

Type 4: He explained it, but I didn't understand shit

According to Oblivion_of_the_endless.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Type 1: One or Several Dualities

Type 2: All Dualities Of The Verse.
Type 3: Type 2 Dualities But on 3d dimensional scale to infiniteD

Type 4: He explained it, but I didn't understand shit

According to Oblivion_of_the_endless.

Still not get the difference between 2&3.
I know 3 is for Outerversal characters but not all characters are outerversal. So how can you Transcend duality of the verse if you are a 4D or some D character who haven't reached outside of the verse ?

 

[NIK_FARIS]

According to Oblivion_of_the_endless.

I am sure that TD 3 is for 1-A and above. TD 2 is for below those tier. Also TD 1 will be gone and TD4 will be merge with TD3 after next revision of ability.

 

[Arthex]

Still not get the difference between 2&3.
I know 3 is for Outerversal characters but not all characters are outerversal. So how can you Transcend duality of the verse if you are a 4D or some D character who haven't reached outside of the verse ?

eh? simply being beyond all dualities of your verse is enough for TD2

Type 3 is basically type 2 but for 1a and above characters

 

[Arthex]

Transduality type 2 is a ability where you have to EXTRA specfic, due to how op of a ability it is. considering the amount of anti-feats, i doubt staffs will accept it.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Type 3: Type 2 Dualities But on 3d dimensional scale to infiniteD

Type 3 is only for 1-A and above

 

[Fixxed]

Umm, that’s not how it work. Acausality 5 is just simply above cause and effect on all level but not dual system as a whole. TD is not simply acausality5 + can’t be interact. Like you can’t normally interact with a ghost unless you have NPI. If you talking about interaction, Both of TD2 and Acausality 5 can be interact with feat but the requirements to do so is what differ. TD is not simply just about beyond cause and effect but also all form of dual system. If you have feat interact with acausality 5, it doesn’t mean you can interact with TD2 but if you have feat interact with TD, you can interact with Acausality 5. It similar cases with NEP2. They are just a form of low level transdual, it is not a full level transdual. They can’t deal with those of a true transdual like Transduality 2 or 3.

I never says interact with aca 5=interact with TD 2

 

[Fixxed]

Transduality Type 2 means being beyond all Dualities of the verse,

No, i dont find it in explanation about TD 2. To have it you simply just only have to unbound by all duality

It is like concept type 1, no need govern and independent from all the verse

 

[Fixxed]

Still not get the difference between 2&3.
I know 3 is for Outerversal characters but not all characters are outerversal. So how can you Transcend duality of the verse if you are a 4D or some D character who haven't reached outside of the verse ?

Yeah TD 3 is just like immortality type 10. That is just immortality 5 but for outerversal character

Or like the old concept manipulation, type 1 is just type 2 but for outerversal character

 

[Arthex]

No, i dont find it in explanation about TD 2. To have it you simply just only have to unbound by all duality

It is like concept type 1, no need govern and independent from all the verse

saying TD2 means all dualities in fiction would be NLF, so its assumed it just means all dualities shown in the verse.

Some of the default one are: Life & Death, Existence and Non-existence, cause and effect; gender etc.

"unbound" by duality and being beyond them, for this ability would mean the same.

 

[Fixxed]

saying TD2 means all dualities in fiction would be NLF, so its assumed it just means all dualities shown in the verse.

Some of the default one are: Life & Death, Existence and Non-existence, cause and effect; gender etc.

"unbound" by duality and being beyond them, for this ability would mean the same.

No, i dont says all duality in fiction. I says only all duality

You not have to being unbound by all duality in verse. If one reality have a complete duality in it, if you unbound by it you can have TD 2. Even if there are another reality in the verse

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Anos Source can't be interacted normally.

 

[Fixxed]

life and death themselves are a duality, and we know anos is bound by it, its just he can escape them. Anos is a male, while gods can be non, another anti-feat.

You know is not anti-feats. Hecatia is female and she have TD 2

Hecatia Lapislazuli

As for the relationship between Gensokyo and other worlds, I think it's not really practical for each world to maintain their complete independence. That's because each world is fundamentally interconnected. If you build a giant wall somewhere, that wall is definitely coming down someday, and if...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You know is not anti-feats. Hecatia is female and she have TD 2

Hecatia Lapislazuli

As for the relationship between Gensokyo and other worlds, I think it's not really practical for each world to maintain their complete independence. That's because each world is fundamentally interconnected. If you build a giant wall somewhere, that wall is definitely coming down someday, and if...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I was about to point out that. Also anos Source never got causality haxed btw. His physical body got causality haxed but anos later states that lord of Balandis can't casuality hax his source or something. So TD 2 can be argued.

 

[Arthex]

i swear you guys have to provide context, no one ever said you were arguing for limited transduality aka td for the source

 

[Arthex]

I believe anos's roots can't die either? so that cover the life and death part aswell

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Source:

Spoiler: LN KEYWORD

The fundamental concept of existence that all living things hold within them. An excellent magician can be reincarnated with the memories of their life kept in their source, and even if the physical body perishes, as long as the source is intact, they can be revived.

Spoiler: LN

有り体に言えば、 こんぱく しんえん魂、魂魄となるが、根源は更にその深淵にある、俺たちを俺たちたらしめるものだ。
To put it simply, it is our soul, our spirit, but the root is even deeper, the thing that makes us who we are.

Soul

Spoiler

In many religious, philosophical, and mythological traditions there is belief in a soul as the incorporeal essence of a living being. Soul or psyche (Ancient Greek: ψυχή psykhḗ, of ψύχειν psýkhein, "to breathe", cf. Latin 'anima') comprises the mental abilities of a living being: reason, character, feeling, consciousness, qualia, memory, perception, thinking, etc. Depending on the philosophical system, a soul can either be mortal or immortal.

Spirit

Spoiler

In folk belief, spirit is the vital principle or animating force within all living things. As recently as 1628 and 1633 respectively, both William Harvey and René Descartes still speculated that somewhere within the body, in a special locality, there was a "vital spirit" or "vital force", which animated the whole bodily frame, just as the engine in a factory moves the machinery in it.

Well soul and spirit are different things. So soul and spirit both exist inside all living things. Root even exist deeper than spirits.

Soul itself is comprised of body and mind but spirits is even different. Well I believe resurrecting from roots alone is high Godly regeneration.

I want to hear others opinion

Any suggestions.

Also don't forget root is limited AE type 1 and need to revive within 3 seconds.

LN specify soul and spirit differently. Well that's what I think. Root should be considered as secondary concepts of existence. Or spirit is considered as information and root as fundamental concepts. Anyway Possibly high godly regeneration for everyone who can regenerate from roots.

 

[Delta333]

You know is not anti-feats. Hecatia is female and she have TD 2

Or it means that profile is wrong, male and female literally form a dual system, it's obvious tbh

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

BTW how does Transduality type 4 even work?
And what is graham's deal? His source is NEP2, but when that is destroyed, graham's true form is revealed with is true nothingness deeper then NEP2? That true nothingness can be further destroyed but it will still be? So multi layered NEP2?

 

[Dereck03]

Anos Source can't be interacted normally.

You should know that Anos' source is something even more terrible and incomprehensible than Venuzdonoa.

 

[Orioreeem]

Or it means that profile is wrong, male and female literally form a dual system, it's obvious tbh

This wiki ain't that strick honestly. Putting gender stuff into that would be stupid.

 

[Fixxed]

Spoiler: Chapter: 371

「ふむ。少々違うな。俺にとっては、お前の虚無をどうこうするより、自身の滅びを克服する方が至難でな。確かにこのやわな世界で出せる俺の力は、お前と大凡拮抗するが、本来の総量は桁が違う」
　奴の全力は、文字通り、根源の魔力をすべて発揮すること。
　対して俺の全力は、世界が滅びぬように、自らの力を自らの力で押さえ込み、相殺しながら、その中からかろうじて残った魔力を制御することをいう。
"Hm. Not quite. For me, it is more difficult to overcome my own destruction than to deal with your emptiness. It is true that my power in this fragile world is roughly equal to yours, but the total amount of my true power is on a different order of magnitude."
　His full power is to literally unleash all of the magic of the root.
　In contrast, my all-out power is to control the barely remaining magic power from within the world while suppressing and offsetting my own power with my own power so that the world will not be destroyed.

Spoiler: Chapter: 372

この身の深奥が、グラハムの虚無を遙かに上回る破滅に満ちる。
The depths of this body are filled with a doom that far exceeds Graham's emptiness.
.
.
　それを終焉に導くため、世界を滅ぼす以上の滅びが、根源の奥で荒れ狂っているのだ。
　外に漏らしてしまえば、世界に致命的な傷を与えることになろう。
　To bring it to an end, a destruction greater than the destruction of the world is raging deep within its roots.
　If leaked out, it would inflict a fatal wound on the world.

Exceeds is synonym for transcend and surpassed, so it can mean arnos true form is transcend nonexistance

Spoiler: Chapter: 391

「混沌とした滅びだ。この魔眼の力は滅びを本質とするが、どうにも混沌としていてな。いくら覗いても俺にも底が見えてこぬ。確かめようにも、まともに開眼すれば世界がもたぬ」
滅びぬものさえ滅ぼす力。
それさえ、＜混滅の魔眼＞からこぼれ落ちる余波にすぎない。
真の力を見ようにも、魔眼を開きかけただけで世界が崩れゆき、混沌とし始める。
開眼すればいったいなにが起こるのか、暴虐の魔王と呼ばれた彼でさえ確かめる気にはなれなかった。
"Chaotic destruction. The power of this evil eye is the essence of destruction, but it's chaotic. No matter how much I look into it, I cannot see the bottom. Even if I wanted to check, the world would not endure if I opened my eyes properly."
　The power to destroy even that which cannot be destroyed.
　Even that is merely the aftermath of the eye of destruction spilling over.
　Even if you want to see the true power, just by opening the evil eye, the world begins to crumble and chaos ensues.
　Even the man who was called the "Demon King of Tyranny" could not bring himself to find out what would happen if he opened his eyes.

Spoiler: Chapter: 423

「貴君が神々の蒼穹へ近づいたからこそ、秩序が乱れた。滅びの根源を持つ不適合者が、ただ存在するだけで神の秩序に影響を及ぼすというのは推察が可能だ。もう一人の不適合者、グラハムとの戦いを経て、貴君はその力を更に増したのだから」
"It is precisely because you have approached the azure of the gods that the order has been disturbed. It can be inferred that the mere presence of a nonconformist, who possesses the root of destruction, affects the divine order. You have further increased your power through your battle with Graham, the other nonconformist."

If you guys want to argue TD 2 for arnos i think the best thing for use is him true nature. Because the world cannot hold his power, that mean the world cannot interact. And i think the true misfit is not arnos but his true nature or his root him self, because his root is exceed and destroy everything. And only just presence, arnos can effects the order it self

 

[Fixxed]

BTW how does Transduality type 4 even work?

TD 4 is plurality, just like it name TD 4 use a plural logic. If duality just 2 logic, plurality is more than 2 logic ( 3 4 5.... infinite). If you transcend duality of 1 and 2 you gonna be 3, TD 4 is transcend duality and even transduality

 

[Delta333]

This wiki ain't that strick honestly. Putting gender stuff into that would be stupid.

You can explain why it is stupid

 

[Dereck03]

Tbh, i don't see Transduality nor Aca 5, that's a terribly wank.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You should know that Anos' source is something even more terrible and incomprehensible than Venuzdonoa.

That's what I am saying. His Source and Graham source can't be interacted normally. Atleast he is holding back too much.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

BTW how does Transduality type 4 even work?
And what is graham's deal? His source is NEP2, but when that is destroyed, graham's true form is revealed with is true nothingness deeper then NEP2? That true nothingness can be further destroyed but it will still be? So multi layered NEP2?

I wouldn't consider as layers of NEP as that doesn't exist in wiki. It's clearly Acausality type 5 (only true nothingness) but I don't know why none getting the Point his true nothingness was free from casualty.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler: Chapter: 371

「ふむ。少々違うな。俺にとっては、お前の虚無をどうこうするより、自身の滅びを克服する方が至難でな。確かにこのやわな世界で出せる俺の力は、お前と大凡拮抗するが、本来の総量は桁が違う」
　奴の全力は、文字通り、根源の魔力をすべて発揮すること。
　対して俺の全力は、世界が滅びぬように、自らの力を自らの力で押さえ込み、相殺しながら、その中からかろうじて残った魔力を制御することをいう。
"Hm. Not quite. For me, it is more difficult to overcome my own destruction than to deal with your emptiness. It is true that my power in this fragile world is roughly equal to yours, but the total amount of my true power is on a different order of magnitude."
　His full power is to literally unleash all of the magic of the root.
　In contrast, my all-out power is to control the barely remaining magic power from within the world while suppressing and offsetting my own power with my own power so that the world will not be destroyed.

Spoiler: Chapter: 372

この身の深奥が、グラハムの虚無を遙かに上回る破滅に満ちる。
The depths of this body are filled with a doom that far exceeds Graham's emptiness.
.
.
　それを終焉に導くため、世界を滅ぼす以上の滅びが、根源の奥で荒れ狂っているのだ。
　外に漏らしてしまえば、世界に致命的な傷を与えることになろう。
　To bring it to an end, a destruction greater than the destruction of the world is raging deep within its roots.
　If leaked out, it would inflict a fatal wound on the world.

Exceeds is synonym for transcend and surpassed, so it can mean arnos true form is transcend nonexistance

Spoiler: Chapter: 391

「混沌とした滅びだ。この魔眼の力は滅びを本質とするが、どうにも混沌としていてな。いくら覗いても俺にも底が見えてこぬ。確かめようにも、まともに開眼すれば世界がもたぬ」
滅びぬものさえ滅ぼす力。
それさえ、＜混滅の魔眼＞からこぼれ落ちる余波にすぎない。
真の力を見ようにも、魔眼を開きかけただけで世界が崩れゆき、混沌とし始める。
開眼すればいったいなにが起こるのか、暴虐の魔王と呼ばれた彼でさえ確かめる気にはなれなかった。
"Chaotic destruction. The power of this evil eye is the essence of destruction, but it's chaotic. No matter how much I look into it, I cannot see the bottom. Even if I wanted to check, the world would not endure if I opened my eyes properly."
　The power to destroy even that which cannot be destroyed.
　Even that is merely the aftermath of the eye of destruction spilling over.
　Even if you want to see the true power, just by opening the evil eye, the world begins to crumble and chaos ensues.
　Even the man who was called the "Demon King of Tyranny" could not bring himself to find out what would happen if he opened his eyes.

Spoiler: Chapter: 423

「貴君が神々の蒼穹へ近づいたからこそ、秩序が乱れた。滅びの根源を持つ不適合者が、ただ存在するだけで神の秩序に影響を及ぼすというのは推察が可能だ。もう一人の不適合者、グラハムとの戦いを経て、貴君はその力を更に増したのだから」
"It is precisely because you have approached the azure of the gods that the order has been disturbed. It can be inferred that the mere presence of a nonconformist, who possesses the root of destruction, affects the divine order. You have further increased your power through your battle with Graham, the other nonconformist."

If you guys want to argue TD 2 for arnos i think the best thing for use is him true nature. Because the world cannot hold his power, that mean the world cannot interact. And i think the true misfit is not arnos but his true nature or his root him self, because his root is exceed and destroy everything. And only just presence, arnos can effects the order it self

Well i am also saying same thing. Misfits roots are Unique than others and can't be interacted by normal means. TD 2 should be given to roots

 

[Orioreeem]

You can explain why it is stupid

Author wanted to make his character male or female instead of something that is genderless because that's the most normal thing to do and character can't get td because of that?

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Outside of all the new abilities that will come...

Can someone please fix Anos' abstract existence? It's listed twice: once as limited (the one that any good magician has) and another related to <Venejiara>

 

[Dereck03]

Outside of all the new abilities that will come...

Can someone please fix Anos' abstract existence? It's listed twice: once as limited (the one that any good magician has) and another related to <Venejiara>

How many times I have to repeat myself about his AE?? The 2 can't be together because one is due to an ability <Venejiara> and the other is limited in nature only to his source because is a concept.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

TD 4 is plurality, just like it name TD 4 use a plural logic. If duality just 2 logic, plurality is more than 2 logic ( 3 4 5.... infinite). If you transcend duality of 1 and 2 you gonna be 3, TD 4 is transcend duality and even transduality

So...........If i get it correctly, transduality would be transcending 1 and -1, and type 4 transduality is transcending -infinity....-2, -2, 0, 1, 2, 3.....infinity?
If so, how to even prove it?