Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

[EldemadeDityjon]

For massive Hax upgrade

Anos getting resistance to plot manipulation is biggest thing here

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I see and smell wank here

Plot manipulation is legit bro. Check magi threads.

 

[Dereck03]

I have no idea, I only know that the similarity between plot manipulation and logic in MG is practically the same, I emphasized even more in the thread I posted above.

 

[Fixxed]

Anos getting resistance to plot manipulation is biggest thing here

I don't think plot is the bigger thing

Transduality 2>>>plot manipulation, as far as i know (yea i know they different, but i think TD 2 is biggest hax ever made in tier 2)

 

[Dereck03]

but i think TD 2 is biggest hax ever made in tier 2)

along with Acausality 5 and Nature 2 Nep

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Source:

Spoiler: LN KEYWORD

The fundamental concept of existence that all living things hold within them. An excellent magician can be reincarnated with the memories of their life kept in their source, and even if the physical body perishes, as long as the source is intact, they can be revived.

Spoiler: LN

有り体に言えば、 こんぱく しんえん魂、魂魄となるが、根源は更にその深淵にある、俺たちを俺たちたらしめるものだ。
To put it simply, it is our soul, our spirit, but the root is even deeper, the thing that makes us who we are.

Soul

Spoiler

In many religious, philosophical, and mythological traditions there is belief in a soul as the incorporeal essence of a living being. Soul or psyche (Ancient Greek: ψυχή psykhḗ, of ψύχειν psýkhein, "to breathe", cf. Latin 'anima') comprises the mental abilities of a living being: reason, character, feeling, consciousness, qualia, memory, perception, thinking, etc. Depending on the philosophical system, a soul can either be mortal or immortal.

Spirit

Spoiler

In folk belief, spirit is the vital principle or animating force within all living things. As recently as 1628 and 1633 respectively, both William Harvey and René Descartes still speculated that somewhere within the body, in a special locality, there was a "vital spirit" or "vital force", which animated the whole bodily frame, just as the engine in a factory moves the machinery in it.

Well soul and spirit are different things. So soul and spirit both exist inside all living things. Root even exist deeper than spirits.

Soul itself is comprised of body and mind but spirits is even different. Well I believe resurrecting from roots alone is high Godly regeneration.

I want to hear others opinion

 

[Orioreeem]

Spoiler

Spoiler: Chapter: 424

「人にわかりやすくたとえれば、私どもは劇場の興行師。悲劇も喜劇も、すべては人生という舞台で繰り広げられる演目だ。観劇すれば、思考を働かせ、思想を抱き、哲学することもあろう。されど、自らの嗜好で、悲劇と喜劇に差をつける興行師は愚鈍なのだ」
「なるほど。上演されてさえいればいいというわけだ」
「然り。演目に貴賤はない。喜劇も悲劇も等しく素晴らしきかな。上演を続けること、すなわち舞台の秩序を維持することが、神の命題。その結果、たまたま悲劇が多数であっただけのこと。私どもに、人を害しようという目的はない」
　当然のことのように深化神は語る。
「舞台じゃない。人々はこの世界で生きている。彼らの苦しみは本物」
「彼女のように、役者に心奪われる興行師も存在するものだ。あげくの果てには、自ら舞台に上がる始末。誠に酔狂なことだ」
　ミーシャの言葉を、ディルフレッドはそう一蹴した。
「されど、苦しみも、喜びも、永遠ではない。人生の幕が下りれば役者は消え、そして新たな役があてがわれ、再び舞台に上がるのだ。そこに、なんの憂いがあろうか？」
　生真面目な顔で、男は言う。
　憂いなど、ありはしないと、彼は心の底から信じきっている。
"If I were to use a simple analogy, we are theater performers. Tragedies and comedies are all plays that take place on the stage of life. When you see a play, you may think, ponder, and philosophize. But the showman who makes a difference between tragedy and comedy according to his own taste is a fool."
"I see. As long as it is performed, that is all that matters."
"It's true. There is no rank in performance. Comedy and tragedy are equally wonderful. God's proposition is to continue the performance, to maintain order on the stage. As a result, tragedies just happen to be numerous. We have no intention of harming anyone."
　As if it were a matter of course, God the Deeper speaks.
"This is not a stage. People live in this world. Their suffering is real."
"There are entertainers like her who are fascinated by actors. Some showmen, like her, are so fascinated by the actors that they go on stage themselves. It's truly a madness."
　Dirfred dismissed Misha's words with a dismissive tone.
"But neither pain nor joy lasts forever. When the curtain falls, the actor disappears, and a new role is assigned, and the actor goes on stage again. What is there to be sad about?"
　The man says with a serious face.
　He is convinced from the bottom of his heart that there is no such thing as sorrow.

Spoiler: Chapter: 445

「深化神曰く、神にとって世界は劇場の舞台らしいが、さしずめお前は興行主が依怙贔屓えこひいきで割り振った主役といったところか。役柄は大層立派だが、当の役者が大根ではな」
"According to the god of deepening, the world is a theater stage for the gods, and you are the protagonist assigned by the entertainer with the favor of Impresario. The roles are splendid, but the actors themselves are radish."

So order are encompasses all phenomenon (tragedies and comedies) and the course of the phenomenon, and unbound by them because all phenomenon is not last forever and will change, but the order and god dont. The order are also determine what person role, it is protagonist or else is determined and rule by order

So what abilities will the order get???
Causality manipulation, because encompasses/govern the course of all phenomenon
Or
Plot manipulation, because govern the course of all phenomenon which means it desribe the world it self, make order is description of world. And order is also determine every person. And order just see the world like theater performers, that mean make the world like a "fiction"
Or.......

What you guys think???

Unless it isn't a metaphore then plot manipulation seems fine.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

along with Acausality 5 and Nature 2 Nep

Graham Probably should get Acausality type 5. Venozdonua is like NLF in verse even if it can't completely vipe him down then his true nothingness should be completely outside Casualty.

 

[Orioreeem]

Why?

 

[Arthex]

Graham Probably should get Acausality type 5. Venozdonua is like NLF in verse even if it can't completely vipe him down then his true nothingness should be completely outside Casualty.

as far as I know, Graham was indeed erased, he just regenerated.

Acausality type 5 is too much big of a thing to give for that, at max it would be some extra
ressitances.

 

[Arthex]

also why would venuzdoana erasing him and him regenerating make him outside causality?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

as far as I know, Graham was indeed erased, he just regenerated.

Acausality type 5 is too much big of a thing to give for that, at max it would be some extra
ressitances.

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. Even interacting with them normally may prove virtually impossible.

also why would venuzdoana erasing him and him regenerating make him outside causality?

Him getting erased and regenerating from complete source is yeah HGR but his pure nothingness even exist deeper than that. Which couldn't be affected by Venozdonua. I don't heard anywhere anything that states there is something deeper than NEP. His true nothingness should be even deeper than NEP.

 

[Arthex]

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. Even interacting with them normally may prove virtually impossible.

Him getting erased and regenerating from complete source is yeah HGR but his pure nothingness even exist deeper than that. Which couldn't be affected by Venozdonua. I don't heard anywhere anything that states there is something deeper than NEP. His true nothingness should be even deeper than NEP.

Above baseline Nep? also why does venuzdoana being unablr to affect his non existent form be Acausality type 5?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Above baseline Nep? also why does venuzdoana being unablr to affect his non existent form be Acausality type 5?

Venozdonua Destroyed his NEP type 2 but it couldn't effect his true nothingness.

 

[Arthex]

Ah I get what you are saying now, the misfit part and the nep part.

i doubt nep 2 + Acausality type 4 would qualify for type 5.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Ah I get what you are saying now, the misfit part and the nep part.

i doubt nep 2 + Acausality type 4 would qualify for type 5.

Well what is even deeper than NEP? He is not affected by whole verse cause. Venozdonua has no anti feats in deeper layers too.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Ah I get what you are saying now, the misfit part and the nep part.

i doubt nep 2 + Acausality type 4 would qualify for type 5.

I am not claiming Acausality type 4+NEP type 2 as Acausality type 5.

His true nothingness exist outside of the Casualty of the system. Completely even deeper than NEP type 2. If am correct.

 

[Arthex]

Well what is even deeper than NEP? He is not affected by whole verse cause. Venozdonua has no anti feats in deeper layers too.

Above baseline nep, aka harder to interact with.

 

[Orioreeem]

His true nothingness exist outside of the Casualty of the system.

You need statements for this, not your own interpretation

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You need statements for this, not your own interpretation

Above baseline nep, aka harder to interact with.

NEP type 2 explaination does not even states there is any deeper NEP than what it is.

 

[Arthex]

I am not claiming Acausality type 4+NEP type 2 as Acausality type 5.

His true nothingness exist outside of the Casualty of the system. Completely even deeper than NEP type 2. If am correct.

So like "Limited Acausality(Type 5, Graham is a misfit that exists outside the framework of the world's order, reason all together; Additionaly, not even venuzdoana can interact with his true nothingness.)"

 

[Arthex]

NEP type 2 explaination does not even states there is any deeper NEP than what it is.

Even conceptual Manipulation dosent explains hat some concepts have greater affect on reality than others, dosent mean it dosent exists.

Acausality type 5 is far too much big of a ability to give for such reasons.

Focusing on td type 2 would be more appropriate, as it gives Acausality type 5 by default.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Chapter 370 explains Graham root itself is NEP type 2.
Well the whole explanation is in the chapter translating it would take too much time.

魔王学院の不適合者　～史上最強の魔王の始祖、転生して子孫たちの学校へ通う～ - 虚無

Here it's clearly mentioned Graham completely wiped out by Venozdonua even his NEP type 2 root gets destroyed completely still his true nothingness couldn't be destroyed.

Spoiler: Chapter 371

腹部を貫かれながらも、 そのままヴェヌズドノアを振り下ろし、 奴の 右肩を切断する。 乱竄神鎌を手にしたまま、 その右腕が宙を舞った。
グラハムは後退する。
地面を蹴り、奴の服を左手でつかんだ。
「逃さぬ」
ガウェスト 「<紫電雷光>」
目の前に溢れかえった紫電を、ヴェヌズドノアで突き破り、 そのまま 奴の心臓を貫き、 根源を刺し滅ぼす。
緋電紅雷さえも溢れ出さず、 奴の命は停止する。
「虚無だからといって滅ぼせぬと思ったか」
無である奴の根源は、滅びることはない。 だが、理滅剣の前では、あらゆる理が意味をなさない。
確かにその根源は滅び去った。
先程のように無のままの奴が生きているということもない。
「滅ぼしたからといって、 それが永遠だと思うかい?」
響いた声は、俺の背後から。 姿形は見えず、ただ乱竄神鎌ベフェヌグズドグマだけが、 浮かび上が っている。
さながら、 そこにいる何者かが持ち上げているかのように。
先程の虚無とは違うな。 ガルヴェドゥール 奴が<迅雷剛斧> の後に使った魔法 -

While being pierced through the abdomen, he swung down on Venuzdonor and severed his right shoulder. His right arm flutters in the air, still holding the Ranjusagami scythe in his hand.
Graham backs away.
Kicking the ground, he grabbed his clothes with his left hand.
"I won't let him get away."
Gawest, "Shiden Raiko!"
He pierced through the purple lightning flooding in front of him with his Venuzdonor, piercing right through his heart and destroying it at its source.
Not even the Scarlet Thunderbolt overflows, and his life comes to a halt.
"Did you think you couldn't destroy him just because he is emptiness?"
The source of his emptiness cannot be destroyed. But in the face of the sword of reason and destruction, all reason is meaningless.
Indeed, his root is destroyed.
Nor does it mean that he who remains as nothing is alive, as he was just now.
"Do you think that just because you have destroyed it, it is eternal?"
The voice came from behind me. No form could be seen, only the fiery scythe, Befenugzdogma, rose in the air.
It was as if something there was lifting it up.
It's different from the emptiness we saw earlier. Gulvedur, the magic he used after the


「破壊神アベルニューの権能を宿した理滅剣ヴェヌズドノア。 その理不 尽な力を持ってしても、 僕の虚無を永遠に滅ぼすことはできないみたい だね」
ヴェヌズドノアの刃から逃れた奴の上半身が、うっすらと消えてい き､ 虚無へ変わった。
なにもない。
微量な魔力さえも感じぬそこに、 確かに奴はいる。
「滅ぼされたものは無に帰すのが、 この世の秩序だ。 理滅剣の前では、 あらゆる理が意味をなさず、 万物万象が滅びる。 その効果が働くのは対 象が滅びるまでといったところかな?」
周囲の虚無から声だけが響く。
「だけど､ 滅びた後のなにもない無が、 理さえ伴わない虚無こそが､ 僕 の根源の本来の姿だ｣
理滅剣は､確かに奴の虚無を滅ぼした。
つまり、無に帰したのだ。
しかし、その刃から逃れさえすれば、 その無は再び奴を形成するとい うことか。
「理滅剣の力を行使し続ければ､ 僕を滅ぼし続けられるだろうけどね。 だけど、 その魔剣は形を永続的に保つことはできないだろう? ここが 君の魔王城でないなら、尚更だよ」
確かにな。
ヴェヌズドノアには制限時間がある。
理滅剣にて、奴の虚無の理を永遠に滅ぼし続けることはできぬ。 いかな魔法を使おうと、 秩序というのはやがて本来の形に戻るもの
だ。
刃を納めれば、理が元に戻り、 そこに残された無がグラハムという形 を取り、再び動き出す。

"Venuzdonor, the sword of destruction that possesses the power of Avernu, the God of Destruction. Even with its unreasonable power, it seems that my emptiness cannot be destroyed forever."
The upper half of his body, which had escaped the blade of Venuzdnois, vanished and was transformed into emptiness.
Nothing.
There, where not even a trace of magic power can be felt, he is indeed there.
"The world's order is that what has been destroyed returns to nothing. In the face of the sword of reason and destruction, all reason is meaningless, and all things perish. The effect will only work until the object is destroyed, right?"
Only a voice echoes from the surrounding emptiness.
"But the nothingness after the destruction, the emptiness without even reason, is the true form of my origin."
The Rishonen Sword has indeed destroyed his emptiness.
In other words, he was reduced to nothing.
But as long as he escapes from the blade, that emptiness will form him again.
"If I continue to use the power of the Sword of Destruction, it will continue to destroy me. But the sword can't keep its shape permanently, can it? Especially if this is not your Demon King's castle."
That's for sure.
Venuzdnois has a time limit.
He cannot continue to destroy the truth of his nihilism forever with the Sword of Destruction. No matter how much magic you use, order will eventually return to its original form.
It is only when the blade is retracted that the order will return to its original form.
When the blade is retracted, reason returns to its original form, and the nothingness that remains takes the form of Graham and begins to move again.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Even conceptual Manipulation dosent explains hat some concepts have greater affect on reality than others, dosent mean it dosent exists.

Acausality type 5 is far too much big of a ability to give for such reasons.

Focusing on td type 2 would be more appropriate, as it gives Acausality type 5 by default.

We already have some materials for TD type 2. Btw how does type 2 gives Acausality type 5? Am I missing something?.

 

[Arthex]

We already have some materials for TD type 2. Btw how does type 2 gives Acausality type 5? Am I missing something?.

"cause" and "effect" are a duality themselves.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

"cause" and "effect" are a duality themselves.

Pretty sure that's not how Acausality type 5 works. Hecatua has TD2 but not Acausality type 5.

Pretty sure both are different

Hecatia Lapislazuli

Hecatia Lapislazuli (ヘカーティア・ラピスラズリ) is a mysterious Goddess of Hell who governs the Hells of the moon, the Earth, and Otherworlds. She has a separate body in each of the three worlds and can act independently with each of them. Once, she was the main leader of the Ministry of Right and Wrong...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Orioreeem]

It does work like that. Cause and effects are duality. She doesn't have type 5 listed because it's redundent and nep has it's own reasons for it.

 

[Arthex]

Pretty sure that's not how Acausality type 5 works. Hecatua has TD2 but not Acausality type 5.

Pretty sure both are different

Hecatia Lapislazuli

Hecatia Lapislazuli (ヘカーティア・ラピスラズリ) is a mysterious Goddess of Hell who governs the Hells of the moon, the Earth, and Otherworlds. She has a separate body in each of the three worlds and can act independently with each of them. Once, she was the main leader of the Ministry of Right and Wrong...

vsbattles.fandom.com

it comes along with TD2, no need to list them. you even get NEP 2 along with TD2 cuz "existence" and "non-existence"

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

"cause" and "effect" are a duality themselves.

Let me explain better why Graham should get Acausality type 5

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. Even interacting with them normally may prove virtually impossible.

Chapter 370 explains Graham root itself is NEP type 2.
Well the whole explanation is in the chapter translating it would take too much time.

魔王学院の不適合者　～史上最強の魔王の始祖、転生して子孫たちの学校へ通う～ - 虚無

Here it's clearly mentioned Graham completely wiped out by Venozdonua even his NEP type 2 root gets destroyed completely still his true nothingness couldn't be destroyed.

Spoiler: Chapter 371

腹部を貫かれながらも、 そのままヴェヌズドノアを振り下ろし、 奴の 右肩を切断する。 乱竄神鎌を手にしたまま、 その右腕が宙を舞った。
グラハムは後退する。
地面を蹴り、奴の服を左手でつかんだ。
「逃さぬ」
ガウェスト 「<紫電雷光>」
目の前に溢れかえった紫電を、ヴェヌズドノアで突き破り、 そのまま 奴の心臓を貫き、 根源を刺し滅ぼす。
緋電紅雷さえも溢れ出さず、 奴の命は停止する。
「虚無だからといって滅ぼせぬと思ったか」
無である奴の根源は、滅びることはない。 だが、理滅剣の前では、あらゆる理が意味をなさない。
確かにその根源は滅び去った。
先程のように無のままの奴が生きているということもない。
「滅ぼしたからといって、 それが永遠だと思うかい?」
響いた声は、俺の背後から。 姿形は見えず、ただ乱竄神鎌ベフェヌグズドグマだけが、 浮かび上が っている。
さながら、 そこにいる何者かが持ち上げているかのように。
先程の虚無とは違うな。 ガルヴェドゥール 奴が<迅雷剛斧> の後に使った魔法 -

While being pierced through the abdomen, he swung down on Venuzdonor and severed his right shoulder. His right arm flutters in the air, still holding the Ranjusagami scythe in his hand.
Graham backs away.
Kicking the ground, he grabbed his clothes with his left hand.
"I won't let him get away."
Gawest, "Shiden Raiko!"
He pierced through the purple lightning flooding in front of him with his Venuzdonor, piercing right through his heart and destroying it at its source.
Not even the Scarlet Thunderbolt overflows, and his life comes to a halt.
"Did you think you couldn't destroy him just because he is emptiness?"
The source of his emptiness cannot be destroyed. But in the face of the sword of reason and destruction, all reason is meaningless.
Indeed, his root is destroyed.
Nor does it mean that he who remains as nothing is alive, as he was just now.
"Do you think that just because you have destroyed it, it is eternal?"
The voice came from behind me. No form could be seen, only the fiery scythe, Befenugzdogma, rose in the air.
It was as if something there was lifting it up.
It's different from the emptiness we saw earlier. Gulvedur, the magic he used after the


「破壊神アベルニューの権能を宿した理滅剣ヴェヌズドノア。 その理不 尽な力を持ってしても、 僕の虚無を永遠に滅ぼすことはできないみたい だね」
ヴェヌズドノアの刃から逃れた奴の上半身が、うっすらと消えてい き､ 虚無へ変わった。
なにもない。
微量な魔力さえも感じぬそこに、 確かに奴はいる。
「滅ぼされたものは無に帰すのが、 この世の秩序だ。 理滅剣の前では、 あらゆる理が意味をなさず、 万物万象が滅びる。 その効果が働くのは対 象が滅びるまでといったところかな?」
周囲の虚無から声だけが響く。
「だけど､ 滅びた後のなにもない無が、 理さえ伴わない虚無こそが､ 僕 の根源の本来の姿だ｣
理滅剣は､確かに奴の虚無を滅ぼした。
つまり、無に帰したのだ。
しかし、その刃から逃れさえすれば、 その無は再び奴を形成するとい うことか。
「理滅剣の力を行使し続ければ､ 僕を滅ぼし続けられるだろうけどね。 だけど、 その魔剣は形を永続的に保つことはできないだろう? ここが 君の魔王城でないなら、尚更だよ」
確かにな。
ヴェヌズドノアには制限時間がある。
理滅剣にて、奴の虚無の理を永遠に滅ぼし続けることはできぬ。 いかな魔法を使おうと、 秩序というのはやがて本来の形に戻るもの
だ。
刃を納めれば、理が元に戻り、 そこに残された無がグラハムという形 を取り、再び動き出す。

"Venuzdonor, the sword of destruction that possesses the power of Avernu, the God of Destruction. Even with its unreasonable power, it seems that my emptiness cannot be destroyed forever."
The upper half of his body, which had escaped the blade of Venuzdnois, vanished and was transformed into emptiness.
Nothing.
There, where not even a trace of magic power can be felt, he is indeed there.
"The world's order is that what has been destroyed returns to nothing. In the face of the sword of reason and destruction, all reason is meaningless, and all things perish. The effect will only work until the object is destroyed, right?"
Only a voice echoes from the surrounding emptiness.
"But the nothingness after the destruction, the emptiness without even reason, is the true form of my origin."
The Rishonen Sword has indeed destroyed his emptiness.
In other words, he was reduced to nothing.
But as long as he escapes from the blade, that emptiness will form him again.
"If I continue to use the power of the Sword of Destruction, it will continue to destroy me. But the sword can't keep its shape permanently, can it? Especially if this is not your Demon King's castle."
That's for sure.
Venuzdnois has a time limit.
He cannot continue to destroy the truth of his nihilism forever with the Sword of Destruction. No matter how much magic you use, order will eventually return to its original form.
It is only when the blade is retracted that the order will return to its original form.
When the blade is retracted, reason returns to its original form, and the nothingness that remains takes the form of Graham and begins to move again.

1. Graham root itself is NEP type 2 even Anos Besbed which uses to interact with sources couldn't interact with him.
2. Venozdonua destroyed that NEP type 2 root.
3. Graham states the reason (cause) and effect of the Sword doesn't affect on him even though infront of the sword all reasons (cause) is meaningless.
4. Graham exist outside the system.
5. Graham NEP type 2 root itself can't be interacted normally. But his true nothingness is not even possible to interact with.

All matches what need to get Acausality type 5.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It does work like that. Cause and effects are duality. She doesn't have type 5 listed because it's redundent and nep has it's own reasons for it.

it comes along with TD2, no need to list them. you even get NEP 2 along with TD2 cuz "existence" and "non-existence"

Ok how would anyone from MG gets Acausality type 5 with TD 2. Now I am confused. Anos causality haxed in Silver Sea though.

Anyway please read the point i mentioned for Graham you are ignoring main thing which requires for Acausality type 5. I am not arguing it based on NEP type 2 alone. His true nothingness is free from casualty itself also exist outside the system. I already posted the scans.

 

[Arthex]

Ok how would anyone from MG gets Acausality type 5 with TD 2. Now I am confused. Anos causality haxed in Silver Sea though.

if you mean he "used" Causality hax, then thats not a issue. but.... if you mean he was affected by one, thats a major anti-feat.

also anos can be interacted with by literally anyone in the series, thats also a anti-feat.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

if you mean he "used" Causality hax, then thats not a issue. but.... if you mean he was affected by one, thats a major anti-feat.

also anos can be interacted with by literally anyone in the series, thats also a anti-feat.

Anos got causality haxed in Silver Sea. That's only rejects Acausality type 5 for him. That's why I am trying to argue for Graham who actually has feats and statement for being Acausality type 5. Read the above scans. His true nothingness couldn't be even interacted by Venozdonua.
His NEP type 2 was able to interact with Venozdonua but it wasn't possible for Anos.

I am trying to say his true nothingness should get Acausality type 5 for being completely outside of the system.

comes to a halt.
"Did you think you couldn't destroy him just because he is emptiness?
The source of his emptiness cannot be destroyed. But in the face of the sword of reason and destruction, all reason is meaningless
Indeed, his root is destroyed
Nor does it mean that he who remains as nothing is alive, as he was just now
"Do you think that just because you have destroyed it, it is eternal?
"..."nal?"

"The world's order is that what has been destroyed returns to nothing. In the face of the sword of reason and destruction, all reason is meaningless, and all things perish. The effect will only work until the object is destroyed, right?"
Only a voice echoes from the surrounding emptiness.
"But the nothingness after the destruction, the emptiness without even reason, is the true form of my origin."

This is enough proof to show his NEP type 2 and true nothingness which is free from casualty is different.

 

[Arthex]

Anos got causality haxed in Silver Sea. That's only rejects Acausality type 5 for him. That's why I am trying to argue for Graham who actually has feats and statement for being Acausality type 5. Read the above scans. His true nothingness couldn't be even interacted by Venozdonua.
His NEP type 2 was able to interact with Venozdonua but it wasn't possible for Anos.

I am trying to say his true nothingness should get Acausality type 5 for being completely outside of the system.




This is enough proof to show his NEP type 2 and true nothingness which is free from casualty is different.

again, I already proposed limited Acausality type 5 for Graham's true nothingness.

also, didn't anos aborsb Graham before silver sea? if causality hax still worked on him, you'd have to clear it out.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

again, I already proposed limited Acausality type 5 for Graham's true nothingness.

So we are on same page

also, didn't anos aborsb Graham before silver sea? if causality hax still worked on him, you'd have to clear it out.

Well let's just keep him Acausality type 4 for now. He really got affected there's nothing we can do. But TD 2 shouldn't be any problem

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Dont see anything that would actually be Type 5. And type 2 transduality also gives Type 5 acausality, which would be a massive issue since literally everyone interacts with Anos, which is what this wiki considers as huge anti-feat against Type 5.

 

[Arthex]

Dont see anything that would actually be Type 5. And type 2 transduality also gives Type 5 acausality, which would be a massive issue since literally everyone interacts with Anos, which is what this wiki considers as huge anti-feat against Type 5.

He is basically saying "Since venuzdoana can't interact/destory Grahman's true nothingness and it exists outside the world's framework, it should be Limited Acausality type 5 "

I believe TD2 has too many contradictions, since TD2 is basically transcending all dualities in your verse, and maou gakiun has the duality of cause and effect.

since everyone in the verse is able to interact with anos, it would be a anti-feat. unless everyone has td2 negation.

 

[Arthex]

also why isn't there a physiology page for maou gakuin yet? God physiology grants them some op powers, and so does demons. spirits also get great abilities from their phi

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler: Chapter 514

　隠されていたヴェールを脱ぎ捨てるように、世界を覆う城が膨大な魔力を放ち始めた。
「石垣積んでは城をなし、因果重ねて長城をなす。城は因果ぞ、因果は城ぞ。余さず重ねて世界とし、そびえ立つは王虎の巣」
　メイティレンの言葉とともに、世界の秩序が歪んだ気がした。
　世界を覆う長き城と共鳴するかの如く、王虎メイティレンが銀の体毛を輝かせる。
「＜因果いんがの長城ちょうじょう＞へイズベンイエリヤ」
　刹那、頭部に激しい衝撃を覚え、俺の体が真下に吹っ飛んでいた。
「この世界は妾の城。積み重ねられた石垣は、世界の因果ぞ。わかるかのう？　バランディアスの因果を、妾は支配しているのじゃ。城を積むも崩すも妾の意のまま、すなわち、原因を切り崩し、結果だけを手にすることができるということよなぁ」
　爪を振るい、体に当てるという原因を取っ払い、爪痕を刻んだ結果だけを得られる、か。
　なかなかどうして、主神らしい権能だ。
「この銀城では、あらゆる結果が自由自在ぞ。主の敗北はここへ来た時点で決まっておる」

As if shedding a veil of concealment, the castles covering the world began to radiate enormous magical power.
"Stone walls piled up to form castles, and causality piled up to form the Great Wall. A castle is a cause and effect, a cause and effect is a castle. The world is a tower of tigers' nests."
　With Mei Tilen's words, I felt the order of the world was distorted.
　As if in resonance with the long castle that covers the world, the silver fur of the tiger Mei T'ren shines.
"Inga no Choujo Choujo he izbenyeriya (The Great Wall of Causes and Effects)"
　A moment later, I felt a violent shock to my head and my body was blown right below.
"This world is a mistress's castle. The piled up stone walls are the cause and effect of the world. Do you understand? I control the cause and effect of the Barandias. I can pile up or break down the castle at will, which means that I can cut down the causes and obtain only the results."
　She can remove the cause by swinging her claws and hitting her body, and obtain only the result of the imprints she has made.
　It's quite a power, just like the Lord God.
"In this silver castle, every result is at your disposal. The Lord's defeat was decided when he came here."

「城という性質上、お前にできるのは自らが口にした通り、因果を崩すか積み上げるかだ。原因を崩し、結果だけを押しつけたとて、切り崩せる原因には限界がある。爪を振るう動作と俺の体に当てるという原因を無視できたとして、せいぜい爪痕を刻むという結果が精一杯。俺の根源の抵抗までは切り崩せぬ」
因果を崩しすぎれば、城自体がもたぬのだ。
　原因を重ね、より強い結果を得ることもできようが、それにも自ずと限界がある。
「その因果の支配が及ぶのは、せいぜいその前足一本が届く範囲といったところか。この狭い世界の中ではそれで十分だったやもしれぬがな」
　不敵に笑い、俺は言った。
「どれだけ原因を崩し、結果を重ねたところで、チャチな城では俺には届かぬ」

"Due to the nature of the castle, all you can do, as you yourself have said, is to destroy or build up the causes and effects. Even if you destroy the cause and impose only the result, there is a limit to the causes you can destroy. Even if you can ignore the cause of the swinging of the claw and its hitting my body, the best you can do is to carve claw marks on my body. You can't cut down to my root resistance."
If the cause and effect are broken too much, the castle itself will not be able to hold out.
　"It may be possible to achieve a stronger result by adding more causes, but there is a natural limit to this.
At best, the control of cause and effect extends as far as its paw can reach. In this small world, that might have been enough."
　I said with a wry smile.
"No matter how many causes you destroy and results you accumulate, you will never be able to reach me in your puny castle."

Anos Physical body got affected but his root has resistance to cause and effect.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Dont see anything that would actually be Type 5. And type 2 transduality also gives Type 5 acausality, which would be a massive issue since literally everyone interacts with Anos, which is what this wiki considers as huge anti-feat against Type 5.

He is basically saying "Since venuzdoana can't interact/destory Grahman's true nothingness and it exists outside the world's framework, it should be Limited Acausality type 5 "

I believe TD2 has too many contradictions, since TD2 is basically transcending all dualities in your verse, and maou gakiun has the duality of cause and effect.

since everyone in the verse is able to interact with anos, it would be a anti-feat. unless everyone has td2 negation.

I would say the roots of the Misfits are not naturally interactive. Physical body can be interacted as usual

 

[Fixxed]

Dont see anything that would actually be Type 5. And type 2 transduality also gives Type 5 acausality, which would be a massive issue since literally everyone interacts with Anos, which is what this wiki considers as huge anti-feat against Type 5.

You know, since long time ago im confused about aca 5 and TD 2

I dont get the different superiority in unbound causality and unbound causality+cannot be interacted. i mean there are no superiority between them, the only thing make them different just can be interacted and cannot. But make them in infinitely different level, one just can be aca 4 and the next is qualify for aca 5

The same thing in TD