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Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

I think we should save level 1 for later and focus first on making Silver Sea a solid 2-A. Someone to make a CRT on the infinite size of the Silver Sea and with that, being able to theoretically contain an infinite amount of layers?
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Isn't that how llama god became low 1-C though? Anyway o see no need to upgrade it to low 1-C as only anos would scale
Click to expand...
theultimate5105 said:
Llama god also had a possible Reality/Fiction difference as support as well as some other stuff
Click to expand...
I won't recommend talking about Pokemon especially based on latest Anos vs Arceus ban thread


Anyway If time is an order which can't exist without an god like others in the verse it's Natural silver sea having a different time god. Which sees lower Timelines as R/F. Well this falls under small assumption based on how order works in the verse.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Anyway If time is an order which can't exist without an god like others in the verse it's Natural silver sea having a different time god. Which sees lower Timelines as R/F. Well this falls under small assumption based on how order works in the verse.
Click to expand...
You have to assume that such a time god exists because we have not been told of such a god existing, we have to assume that it sees timelines as fiction as (obviously from a god that we don't have any proof of it's existence) we don't have any statements of such a feat. These are not a small assumption, these are two rather large assumptions.

If I'm not wrong, we don't we know the existence of a Order that covers the Silver Sea's time, this is another assumption. What Orders does the Silver Sea even have and how do they function? Do the other gods also see their own Orders as fiction, or is that another presumption that a god of the Silver Sea's Order would do so?
 
Everything12 said:
You have to assume that such a time god exists because we have not been told of such a god existing, we have to assume that it sees timelines as fiction as (obviously from a god that we don't have any proof of it's existence) we don't have any statements of such a feat. These are not a small assumption, these are two rather large assumptions.

If I'm not wrong, we don't we know the existence of a Order that covers the Silver Sea's time, this is another assumption. What Orders does the Silver Sea even have and how do they function? Do the other gods also see their own Orders as fiction, or is that another presumption that a god of the Silver Sea's Order would do so?
Click to expand...
EldemadeDityjon said:
Order
The various laws that make up the world, or the power of the gods that keep these laws normal. There are various orders such as “time”, “creation”, and “destruction”, and the same number of gods control them.
LN VOLUME 4 (I); KEYWORD

Gods
Gods are the race that controls the world. Each person has some kind of "order" as their authority and is extremely powerful.
LN VOLUME 4 (I); KEYWORD

"The order of the world, the laws of the world, or providence, are embodied by the Guardian Deities."

WN CHAPTER 29

"It is the reason why this world is the world it is. Why is a bird a bird, why is a demon a demon? The heavens send down rain to moisten the earth and nurture the trees. If you draw a magic circle and put magic power into the magic formula, the light will come on. These are what we call the laws of nature, the laws of magic, the order that makes this world what it is."
[...]
"And the beings who maintain that order, the beings who embody that order, are the higher order divine race, the gods."
WN CHAPTER 120

"Kakaka, sure, sure. It's difficult to investigate. Then what hypothesis can we formulate? Did God come first, or did the world come first?"
Sasha opens her mouth, hitting her head with her hand.
"If anything, I think it was God..."
"Why is that?"
"After all, when the world is first born, if there is no order, the world will collapse. I don't think it will last until God is born by chance."
Without order, the world will perish.
It is obvious that a world without God will not last long.


These statements are enough to prove time doesn't exist without order.
Click to expand...
Whatever said is true unless someone ignores above explanation. Also the fact Silver Sea being higher reality created by someone else will be a fact. We know time didn't existed before world created by Creator god. Eques fate manipulation which is stated to work even before time existed even before world created. It's really not big assumption to say silver sea having a time God.
 
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Doesn't matter how big the assumption is, we don't work on assumptions at all. Facts and evidence is the backbone of this Wiki.
 
Everything12 said:
Doesn't matter how big the assumption is, we don't work on assumptions at all. Facts and evidence is the backbone of this Wiki.
Click to expand...
Order & Gods depending on each other is fact not assumption. Also possible rating exist for things like assumption. It's wiki standard only
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Order & Gods depending on each other is fact not assumption. Also possible rating exist for things like assumption. It's wiki standard only
Click to expand...
The only problem is that this is a rather huge assumption with the only proof we have being that order must first exist before the world the world being the SS in this case.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
The only problem is that this is a rather huge assumption with the only proof we have being that order must first exist before the world the world being the SS in this case.
Click to expand...
Still don't see why this is assumption read the chapter Misha explaining about the world. Order can't Exist without god. If you all wanna say assumption even though it's clearly mentioned as order & gods are dependent is just appeal to ignorance.

Secondly if the god exists in Silver Sea or not there should have been a god who created it.
EldemadeDityjon said:
それは、船だ。

　樹海船じゅかいせんアイオネイリア。多種多様な小世界、数多の魔法に精通した化け物たちが潜む銀水聖海においても、ひどく珍しい船だった。

　銀水の中を、普通の植物は生きることができない。
　しかし、その樹海は銀水を魔力に変え、銀泡の光を吸い込みながら、それらを養分としているのだ。

It is a ship.

　The Jukai Sen Ioneilia. It was a terribly rare ship, even in the silver water sacred sea, where many different small worlds and numerous magic-savvy monsters lurked.

　Ordinary plants cannot live in silver water.
　However, the sea of trees transforms the silver water into magical power and feeds on them while absorbing the light of the silver bubbles.

Silver Sea even though he kinda implied many monsters lurk there.
Click to expand...
Humans doesn't exist in silver Sea but there is statement for monsters Existence.
 
Possible and Likely ratings aren't for assumptions, their still has to be evidence, it's just that sometimes the evidence given might not be enough to give a firm undeniable judgement so they say they are likely or possible.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Still don't see why this is assumption read the chapter Misha explaining about the world. Order can't Exist without god. If you all wanna say assumption even though it's clearly mentioned as order & gods are dependent is just appeal to ignorance.

Secondly if the god exists in Silver Sea or not there should have been a god who created it.

Humans doesn't exist in silver Sea but there is statement for monsters Existence.
Click to expand...
Well hopefully, maou doesn't end with the SS. Hopefully we get to see the existence of things outside it/ other structures like the SS
 
Fixxed said:
Hey i see warhammer can have they own page ability like aethyr manipulation
vsbattles.fandom.com

Aethyr Manipulation

As Volans, the first Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic so aptly sums it up, the Aethyr is the Void, the final element of existence - the intangible element that has no visible or quantifiable form in it's own right. It has no dimension, mass or volume yet is still everywhere. It has no...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

So i think i will make Reason manipulation page, so we can easily explain about term in maou gakuin (because i think a lot people think reason is at the same level as concept and law)

The main ability is:
~Higher degree of Conceptual manipulation type 1 (Reason is the most fundamental thing that form the order it self and all things)
~Higher degree of Law manipulation (same as above)
~NPI and negation to Transduality 2 (Reason is above and encompasses the order, that the order it self is duality system)
~NPI and negation to Acausality 5 (Reason is above and encompasses the order of causality)
~NPI and negation to NEP 2 (Reason is above and encompasses the nothingness it self)
~Higher degree of Causality manipulation (Reason is above and encompasses the order of causality)
~Higher degree of Fate manipulation (Reason is above and encompasses eques power)
Click to expand...
After thinking definitely we need Reason manipulation page for MGF. If we can't get plot manipulation this is even better knowing unlike plot manipulation which is limited to cause and effect and feats Reason manipulation can even affect Acausality type 5 characters which many plot manipulation characters even lacks. This will be better that way.
 
Aside the fact few people use it, it actually has many applications, E.g being able to bullshit anything and affect or demonstrate any known power already shown in the verse
 
It cannot use every power in the verse. It can, however, break logic in some ways against every power. It's different.
 
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Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
It cannot use every power in the verse. It can, however, break logic in some ways against every power. It's different.
Click to expand...
I guess so but it works as a resistance against those abilities.

What if we get Anos using abilities he originally can't by destroying the logic "he shouldn't be able to use them" e.g certain gods orders
 
NIK_FARIS said:
Didn’t Yohata tried low 1-c before but does not get accepted? Edited: his reasoning is different though so you can tried upgrade it back with the new reasoning.
Click to expand...
My reason was
Since the layer is infinite and can hold infinite number of low 2-C it should be a bigger infinity (5D)
But some one told me that it doesn't mean its a higher D and used this example [infinite box (3D) can hold infinite number of rocks(3D)]

But thinking about it again
Infinite box cant hold infinite number of infinite rocks because a single one will fill it
He used a finit inside a infinite

But bubbles have infinite space + infinite time
This mean the layer is a infinite that hold infinite number of infinite 4D

And when we add the time of silver sea

It should be a time that hold infinite snapshots of this infinite space that have infinite number of infinite 4D

Idk how this not a higher D

Note : ofcourse i added things that i didn't say in the thread
 
Yohata said:
My reason was
Since the layer is infinite and can hold infinite number of low 2-C it should be a bigger infinity (5D)
But some one told me that it doesn't mean its a higher D and used this example [infinite box (3D) can hold infinite number of rocks(3D)]

But thinking about it again
Infinite box cant hold infinite number of infinite rocks because a single one will fill it
He used a finit inside a infinite

But bubbles have infinite space + infinite time
This mean the layer is a infinite that hold infinite number of infinite 4D

And when we add the time of silver sea

It should be a time that hold infinite snapshots of this infinite space that have infinite number of infinite 4D

Idk how this not a higher D

Note : ofcourse i added things that i didn't say in the thread
Click to expand...
No. A 2-A multiverse can hold infinite universes (of infinite size each) just fine

Heck, even 2-A structures containing other 2-A structures is still 2-A.

The infinite box example doesnt work since infinite * infinite = infinite.
 
Yohata said:
My reason was
Since the layer is infinite and can hold infinite number of low 2-C it should be a bigger infinity (5D)
But some one told me that it doesn't mean its a higher D and used this example [infinite box (3D) can hold infinite number of rocks(3D)]

But thinking about it again
Infinite box cant hold infinite number of infinite rocks because a single one will fill it
He used a finit inside a infinite

But bubbles have infinite space + infinite time
This mean the layer is a infinite that hold infinite number of infinite 4D

And when we add the time of silver sea

It should be a time that hold infinite snapshots of this infinite space that have infinite number of infinite 4D

Idk how this not a higher D

Note : ofcourse i added things that i didn't say in the thread
Click to expand...
I am not sure about Silver Sea timeline due to it being weird (For the fact that its flow had stop). Does the time of the Sea flows again? Also, what requirements needed for (Secondary temporal dimension) higher timeline in a verse for tier 1?
 
NIK_FARIS said:
I am not sure about Silver Sea timeline due to it being weird (For the fact that its flow had stop). Does the time of the Sea flows again? Also, what requirements needed for (Secondary temporal dimension) higher timeline in a verse for tier 1?
Click to expand...
Hmmm if the flow had stop i dont think that its a infinite time
Yeah maybe its not low 1-C

Especially since the bubbles are not affected by the time of silver sea being stopped

Since its like this
Saying that the space-time of silver sea hold the space-times of bubbles is not enough without other statements
From what i know

just work on hax and infinite baseline 2-A

Since tier 1 still need more statements
 
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If so, the source can be considered type 1 if you prove that even random Maou Gakuin characters are independent of the world
 
NIK_FARIS said:
I am not sure about Silver Sea timeline due to it being weird (For the fact that its flow had stop). Does the time of the Sea flows again? Also, what requirements needed for (Secondary temporal dimension) higher timeline in a verse for tier 1?
Click to expand...
Yohata said:
Hmmm if the flow had stop i dont think that its a infinite time
Yeah maybe its not low 1-C

Especially since the bubbles are not affected by the time of silver sea being stopped

Since its like this
Saying that the space-time of silver sea hold the space-times of bubbles is not enough without other statements
From what i know

just work on hax and infinite baseline 2-A

Since tier 1 still need more statements
Click to expand...
Nowhere stated time was stopped it's unknown what happened between timeline of silver sea and militia world.
 
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