Majo Taisen - TWOGW AP Upgrades & Scaling

[Jinx666]

Now that this calc has finally been accepted, we can get some actual values to justify Majo Taisen profiles rating.

Elizabeth Bathory gathers all of her torture weapons into a large steel spike: 98703561.84 joules (9-A Small Building Level)
- The calc is also registered as a Class K Lifting feat, though the mass has been changed so it should be essentially half of the value, which looks to be around 95710.5kg (Class 100)

Tomoe Gozen's Calamity Severing Skybow blows a large crater in the Walpurgis arena walling: 77.7628796845 Tons (8-B+ City Block level+)

Edit: Another calc since has been made and accepted too here

Catherine the Great breaks Marie Antoinettes Hammer in a single blow: 19214887551 joules (High 8-C Large Building level)
-Marie Antoinette is also calced at Class K for being able to swing the hammer.She regards it as heavy, and is made out tonot be as phsyically strong in her lfietime so i'm confident in being able to scale every other witch so far to a Class K in lifting strength, or add possibly's to those who arent as strong.

Scaling
While I would certainly believe at this level of the tournament, all of the witches' power are around the same ranges of power in their own right, the scaling is tricky to account for when different witches instead rely on Hax or other counter-based factors to compete with eachother.

The 9-A feat calculated was Elizabeth's last ditch effort, using her last magic reserves in order to try and win, so it is to say that this is likely not the strongest output she could produce if she still had her magic. At the same time, Tomoe Gozen is a witch whose magic in itself is 'being strong', which should realistically put her at a bigger AP gap that the other witches, so 8-B+ right now should be the higher tiers of power.

While Elizabeth did 'survive' getting shot by this 8-B impact, it also just blew off her entire arm and right side of her upper torso, meaning it didn't directly hit and even then she couldn't stop it.
There are other feats however, that the pages currently use, to baseline the witches at a higher minimum power than 9-A (Marie Antoinette creating a replica of the tower castle she was locked in, based obviously off the Temple as a real life example, and then Catherine the Great's Cavalry mode destroying the castle in a single blow), making them High 8-C. I believe this should be retained for now, and i will be looking to get this feat calculated as well soon, as this is obviously a large building feat at least. It should also be noted that Marie survives a direct punch from Cavalry mode Catherine albeit she got ragdolled.

The feat for Catherine breaking the King's Hammer is undoutedly less so than this castle, which yielded High 8-C on its own. Catherine was using her Cavalry mode, which boosts her strength considerably, but

Elizabeth has been portrayed as one of the weaker witches we've seen so far in terms of her power, being canonically placed below Tomoe, Wu and Jeanne by a reputtable source (Kisikil), so she should definitely be the lower basis in general, however she still doesn't seem completely beneath these witches either and had been able to fight and deal actual damage to Tomoe despite her weaker AP.

With all this being said, i'll categorise each Witch we've seen so far (with a page) in how i think they would scale

Proposal

At least High 8-C up to 8-B+ with 'X' magic (Has showings and merit to be comparable to Tomoe): Tomoe Gozen, Wu Zetian, Jeanne D'Arc (higher form), Catherine the Great, Marie Antoinette

At least High 8-C, possibly higher: (More hax-based characters or portrayed as physically weaker than it): Elizabeth Bathory, Mary Read, Huang Yueying Cleopatra, Himiko, Mata Hari, Marie Curie

Everyone gets likely Class K Lifting Strength from scaling to Antoinette, except the obvious 'At least Class K' characters like Antoinette (Lifted the calc'ed hammer), Catherine (Physically superior and broke the hammer), Tomoe Gozen (Physically strongest Witch), Mary Read (Portrayed as one of the most physically superior witches lifting anchors and entire ships).


If there is anyone else out there that knows the series well, then im open to discussion ofc, im going to take more of a while to think this over and edit the thread before I come to my own decision

 

[Jinx666]

Update: New calc that can hopefully get approved for Catherine's Hammer feat here

 

[Jinx666]

Final scalings have been made on my end.

 

[Antvasima]

@Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @Lonkitt @LephyrTheRevanchist @FinePoint @Elizio33

Are any of you willing to help evaluate this please?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @Lonkitt @LephyrTheRevanchist @FinePoint @Elizio33

Are any of you willing to help evaluate this please?

It seems this revision requires in depth knowledge of the series, since part of the scaling proposed seem to rely on non explicit evidence of such, but moreso the presentation of the characters.

@Jinx666 does the verse possess some form of UES?
For more information, you can read here
If you can find proof of such a system existing, then the scaling can be easier to accept in spite of the lack of direct showings.

If not, then it would be more accurate to scale the characters to their own personal feats.

 

[Jinx666]

@LephyrTheRevanchist Yes, the UES in this verse comes in the form of 'Greed', the personal desire each Witch has and is used to fuel their magic. The Majo Taisen wiki is a little bare about it right now, mainly due to lack of proper english translation, but i can link scans that briefly explain it here ->

(Alot of below is probably just rehashed explanations of above, theres a TL;DR at the end, but i have thought a lot about how i would physically compare the witches)

The 32 Witches gathered in Walpurgis are the strongest Agrat could find in history based on the power of their unfulfilled desire, and is promising the winner of this 32 person deathmatch a wish and a chance to go back in their life and change everything. The Witches all fight using their Greed as fuel, and can make a 'Magical Vestment', a set of protective magical armour that enhances their skill, physical attributes and defenses against regular weaponry, as well as their own unique superpower, ranging from Wind Manipulation to Reality-warping based powers.
All Witches' magic derive from their own power of 'Greed' and their desire to obtain what they wish for, which does directly link to the strength and/or capability of the magic, so they are comparable in this sense (Basically every witch does want their wish, really badly), but this does manifest in different ways and so far theres no direct comparisons for a few characters.

Theres a clear difference of which witch relies on their physical powers/advantages (Such as Tomoe, Catherine, Wu etc) and the ones that rely on their hax-like power (Such as Mata Hari, Marie Curie, Cleopatra etc). Despite clear showings of different levels of power, and a minor canonical ranking of the first 4 magics we see by a reliable demon source (She doesn't know for sure completely, but shes experienced in the field of Greed), we can still see the witches physically struggle and harm eachother, despite the Magical Vestments they have providing them all that similar stat boosting armour.
Some more than others, but the vestments are capable of even letting the witches with 0 combat experience (Like Bathory and Marie Antoinette) physically keepi up with the likes of witches who are trained warriors and hold the physical AP advantage. Every witch we've seen so far as well, with the exception of one who would most definitely hold the AP element, has still been able to parry and injure their opponent in a meaningful sense.

Every witch does get a physical weapon, and hax-based ones have been able to pierce through and injure characters you would assume to have the higher AP & Stats (Though with some of these magical vestments not appearing to be full body armour, its not clear whether those areas would be equally as protected despite how it should).
The High 8-C feat does admittedly come from Catherine in her power amped form, so im still sketchy on whether to scale the characters we havent seen deliver that similar precedent of power, and can only go off comparing them to Marie Antoinettes durability (Who survived Catherine's direct attacks in this form, albeit with injury).

That being said, the 9-A feat is the result of Bathory's exhausted last ditch effort, and beforehand she did magically create a giant building sized Iron Maiden with a multitude of torture devices to go with it. Her level and nature of magic might be based on what she desires but it also able to exhaust and fuel off her opponent's mental energy. She also did injure Tomoe with her weaponry, who is most definitely High 8-C and can withstand the blowback of her bow that made the 8-B+ feat, despite it being with piercing weapons.

But TL;DR
Im scaling the witches to a minimum of High 8-C mainly from the durability and capability of Marie Antoinette, since though her magic is versatile, shes not exactly portrayed as that physically overwhelmingly strong unlike Tomoe or Catherine, and instead her Desire fuels the power of her summoning capabilites (Such as large stone castles). Her Magical Vestment is directly tied to this, directly survived a High 8-C blow, and overall means this is the cap for all the hax based witches with these physical augments. Catherine is likely much higher than High 8-C too, the feat hasnt been calc'ed yet but she oneshot an actual castle.

 

[Jinx666]

Bump

 

[Jinx666]

@Antvasima Can I go forward with this yet? There aren't gonna be anymore supporters of this verse coming out of the woodwork and i'd like to get started on the changes before i get busy again. They're completely subject to change in the future if they need to be

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Antvasima Can I go forward with this yet? There aren't gonna be anymore supporters of this verse coming out of the woodwork and i'd like to get started on the changes before i get busy again. They're completely subject to change in the future if they need to be

Not how that works, unfortunately. You can politely ask some staff to evaluate this on their walls. But until at least 1 more staff agrees (given you addressed my concerns above and seems reasonable to me at the very least), you kinda have to wait.

 

[Jinx666]

Not how that works, unfortunately. You can politely ask some staff to evaluate this on their walls. But until at least 1 more staff agrees (given you addressed my concerns iabove and seems reasonable to me at the very least), you kinda have to wait.

I know, ive been on this wiki for years but i dont have the time to wait before im busy with more important irl things, i was hoping that since this is a small verse atm only managed by me that it could be an exception for the sake of efficiency

 

[Antvasima]

@Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @GyroNutz @Crabwhale

Are any of you willing to help out here please?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I guess this seems alright. Can't say much since I don't know the verse but, I think it's fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

This can probably be applied then.

 

[Jinx666]

Upgrades have been implemented, this can be closed

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Upgrades have been implemented, this can be closed

Closing