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Madoka vs Yogiri vs Void shiki

From what I heard, she isn't just 2 x Multiverse. Here's what I got from the yogiri vs madoka thread:

The cosmology in PMMM is like two libraries, contains infinite numbers of bookcases, with each book case contains infinite numbers of books.

A book in this analogy = a universe/timeline. A bookcase = a 2-A Multiverse. And a library = what encompassed all the bookcases.

And Puella has two of those libraries.

This is what beast_zero said at least. He's a really knowledgeable member for the record.
 
From what I heard, she isn't just 2 x Multiverse. Here's what I got from the yogiri vs madoka thread:







This is what beast_zero said at least. He's a really knowledgeable member for the record.
I really want to know what exist oustide the multiverse and the non existant multiverse. Even her description for the AP talk only about her emcompass two multiverse having infinite universe


Her multiverse was later confirmed to contain infinite universes in Puella Magi Homura Tamura. The Law of Cycles encompasses the infinite multiverse as well as the nonexistent multiverse beyond it.
 
in world of witches(non exsistent multiverse)there are infinite parallel worlds and each of them have infinite branches(that why many PJ Homura exists),world of wraiths is same so pmmm cosmology=2 x infinite x infinite universes
 
in world of witches(non exsistent multiverse)there are infinite parallel worlds and each of them have infinite branches(that why many PJ Homura exists),world of wraiths is same so pmmm cosmology=2 x infinite x infinite universes
It's show where? Since the description don't mention it
 
It's show where? Since the description don't mention it
in homura tamura manga you can see infinite worlds and people there have different lives(that's the whole point of the manga),and they have infinite branches like Queen Mami once said(and utl madoka story on magia record confirmed about those branches once again)
 
in homura tamura manga you can see infinite worlds and people there have different lives(that's the whole point of the manga),and they have infinite branches like Queen Mami once said(and utl madoka story on magia record confirmed about those branched once again)
Yeah but this is just the multiverse no?
 
But well even without that, [ ] transcending and encompassing a 4D space should be enough no ? For the size thing
 
Why infinite multiverses=infinite universes?and pretty sure encompassing a 4-D space is not enough(even character with low 2-C range can encompass 4-D space)
 
Why infinite multiverses=infinite universes?and pretty sure encompassing a 4-D space is not enough(even character with low 2-C range can encompass 4-D space)
It's not only encompass it, she transcend it too and low 2-C 4D came from the 3D space + 1 D temporal not 4D space.
 
Why infinite multiverses=infinite universes?and pretty sure encompassing a 4-D space is not enough(even character with low 2-C range can encompass 4-D space)
At least what you tell is juste about infinites universe (the quote from what i understand)
 
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Trancending means nothing unless shiki gains 5-D hax with it(madoka cant resist it so)
I mean in world of witches there infinite universes=2-A,each of them has infinite possibilities/branches=infinite 2-A,world of wraiths is same so 2 x infinite 2-A
 
Trancending means nothing unless shiki gains 5-D hax with it(madoka cant resist it so)
I mean in world of witches there infinite universes=2-A,each of them has infinite possibilities/branches=infinite 2-A,world of wraiths is same so 2 x infinite 2-A
Where it's tell she resist 5D hax and she don't have resistance to everything. It will mean she will not having a problem to affect her the thing if what we discussed in first is about the problem of size


And if it's really that you guy need to ask a change in her description, i think since in her description i see just 2 multiverse 2-A.
 
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Where it's tell she resist 5D hax and she don't have resistance to everything. It will mean she will not having a problem to affect her the thing if what we discussed in first
I say madoka "cant"resist 5-D thing,but since when fate characters can do something like that?and yes shiki has problem because 4-D space in pmmm is bigger than fate,it is NLF to say shiki can affect 4-D space in fate means she can affect 4-D space which is infinitely bigger than that
 
I say madoka "cant"resist 5-D thing,but since when fate characters can do something like that?and yes shiki has problem because 4-D space in pmmm is bigger than fate,it is NLF to say shiki can affect 4-D space in fate means she can affect 4-D space which is infinitely bigger than that
For always? Shiki Void true self is akasha the litteral creator of the verse, he had a page before but it was erased because problem with profile

It will be not a problem since she transcend it, except now you want tell that transcend a dimmensionnal space is one verse is not equal at do it in an other verse (which is pretty against the wiki)
 
For always? Shiki Void true self is akasha the litteral creator if the verse, he had a page before but it was erased because problem with profile

It will be not a problem since she transcend it, except now you want tell that transcend a dimmensionnal space is one verse is not equal at do it in an other verse (which is pretty nlf)
transcending doesnt mean it can affect entire pmmm cosmology unless it is 5-D hax(because shiki trancends the verse which is smaller than pmmm),and i never heard about 5-D fate before(make a CRT about it if you want and i will accept it)
 
transcending doesnt mean it cant affect entire pmmm cosmology unless it is 5-D hax(because shiki trancends the verse which is smaller than pmmm),and i never heard about 5-D fate before(make a CRT about it if you want and i will accept it)
It does even without hax since she just litteraly bigger by herself, i don't know why the hax would not scall to her since she litteraly the source of them lol (i don't tell she had but she could and and most of her hax will scale to her size) and even if the verse is smaller an 4D space mean nothing to something that transcend a 4 d space...

The CRT about her transduality type 2 was accepted, she litteraly transcend every dual concept of the verse and she created them, so concept of space too, she don't need a crt for 5D now since some people want to do a crt for much bigger (it's litteraly why she unknow and no 2-A or low 1-C)
 
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It does even without hax since she just litteraly bigger by herself, i don't know why the hax would not scall to her since she litteraly the source of them lol, and even if the verse is smaller an 4D space mean nothing to something that transcend a 4 d space...

The CRT about her transduality type 2 was accepted, she litteraly transcend every dual concept of the verse, so concept of space too, she don't need a crt for 5D now since some people want to do a crt for much bigger (it's litteraly why she unknow and no 2-A)
That's not how this wiki works,you need to create a CRT to use the feat(i dont see low 1-C thing in her profile so no).And if she completely trancend 4-D space and become 5-D being,i dont know why her speed is not immeasurable
 
That's not how this wiki works,you need to create a CRT to use the feat(i dont see low 1-C thing in her profile so no).And if she completely trancend 4-D space and become 5-D being,i dont know why her speed is not immeasurable
She unknow and not 2-A in her profile so i don't see the probleme, mention of other higher D than just the 4D space are mentionned it's why i have ask to let this unknow and to not talk about tier, and i have asked for the immeasurable speed and her omnipresence in the thread after, i just wait a staff to see if it's okay to add it it's why her speed is unknow
 
She unknow and not 2-A in her profile so i don't see the probleme, mention of other higher D than just the 4D space are mentionned it's why i have ask to let this unknow and to not talk about tier, and i have asked for the immeasurable speed and her omnipresence in the thread after, i just wait a staff to see if it's okay to add it it's why her speed is unknow
Can i see the thread which staff members accept 5-D?
 
Isn't Shiki being revised?
Yes and no my thread is mostly finish since all the thing from the OP was accepted but i forgot to talk about some ability (like her creation for having created the verse, and her size and her speed even tough their just englobed in) so i wait for an staff to see it lol.
 
Can i see the thread which staff members accept 5-D?
I don't talk about accepting the 5D but her transduality type 2 who lead to that because her multiverse that she transcend and the concept of space of the verse have an 4D dimmensionnal space



And if we use thing just on the profile then all the thing of 2x Infinite 2-A are not in so will not change a thing.
 
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Well as for my opinion on this thread

Shiki has Transduality Type 2, and NEP Type 2

Which would make it extremely hard to interact with her. From what I can see Madoka and Yogiri have no way to interact.

As for Madoka vs Yogiri i'd need to know how high they scale into 2-A
 
I don't talk about accepting the 5D but her transduality type 2 who lead to that because her multiverse that she transcend and the concept of space of the verse have an 4D dimmensionnal space



And if we use thing just on the profile then all the thing of 2x Infinite 2-A are not in so will not change a thing.
Well if you dont talk about 5-D thing then shiki cant interact with madoka since she transcends 4-D space which is smaller than 4-D space of pmmm verse(you cant treat all 4-D space equally)
2x infinite 2-A is about 2-A feats which is listed in madoka profile so it's not irrelevant
 
This seems like an Inconclusive match to me.


Void Shiki has Transduality Type 2 and above baseline Non-existent physiology Type 2 means she cannot be touched, but she lacks the range to handle Madoka.
 
Don't know about transduality but for the nonexistence

Madoka erases witches > ukg is born as ne2 > madoka says screw you and erases even harder > ukg says no screw you and comes back as double nonexistent > madoka locks her in the nonexistent multiverse where they fight each other for eternity

So even if madoka can't kill shiki she can lock her away in the nonexistent multiverse
 
"The Yin-Yang which Akasha is the root of is explicitly noted to capture the essence of all things in creation in one of the excerpts in the OP, and its emptiness is then stated to be free of binary opposition in general. Given how Type 1 is strictly about transcending only specific dual contrasts, like Yuri said above, I don't see how that's anything less than Type 2." - Ultima_Reality

"If the Root is the nothingness which is the source of all dualities, then Type 2 seems fine to me, taking it at face value. Don't see much of a reason to assume its nature only applies in relation to a specific set of binaries; some of the stuff in here seems like it could potentially give higher, but the OP said they aren't interested in bringing up tiers, so I'm respecting that." - also Ultima_Reality

link to CRT https://vsbattles.com/threads/void-shiki-physiology-abilities.110920/

For the Transduality Type 2
 
What kind of hax can interact with transduality type 2?can concept manip type 2 work on it?(madoka's concept manip can even work on immunity,maybe it can change something)
 
What kind of hax can interact with transduality type 2?can concept manip type 2 work on it?(madoka's concept manip can even work on immunity,maybe it can change something)
Tbh i don't understand transduality in general very well. I feel like its one of things that needs a very detailed explanation blog in my own opinion. The ability page doesn't elaborate enough again this is just my opinion.

i think Tranduality is one of those abilities that not many fully understand besides the few staff and very few regular members.

There is a recent discussion on it here. https://vsbattles.com/threads/can-h...-affect-nep-2-and-transduality-type-2.111117/
 
What kind of hax can interact with transduality type 2?can concept manip type 2 work on it?(madoka's concept manip can even work on immunity,maybe it can change something)
Unsure, think it's a case of characters needing explicit feats against it or being Type 2 Transdual themselves

Also IIRC Transduality may or may not be getting revised at the moment.
 
Transduality seems like one of those powers that needs an overhaul.

Why type 2 would even make you resistant to all hax on your dimensional level is quite confusing, and honestly sounds like NLF in itself. I could understand resisting all hax within your verse on a conceptual level, but hax from other verses as well? Even verses with qualitatively larger cosmologies? Makes no sense.
 
How the hell Shiki has NEP type 2 and Transduality Type 2 at the same time?

The point of Transduality is that you neither can be classified as "exist" nor "non-exists", you are literally your own classification. Having NEP will only contradicted the Transduality.
 
"The Yin-Yang which Akasha is the root of is explicitly noted to capture the essence of all things in creation in one of the excerpts in the OP, and its emptiness is then stated to be free of binary opposition in general. Given how Type 1 is strictly about transcending only specific dual contrasts, like Yuri said above, I don't see how that's anything less than Type 2." - Ultima_Reality

"If the Root is the nothingness which is the source of all dualities, then Type 2 seems fine to me, taking it at face value. Don't see much of a reason to assume its nature only applies in relation to a specific set of binaries; some of the stuff in here seems like it could potentially give higher, but the OP said they aren't interested in bringing up tiers, so I'm respecting that." - also Ultima_Reality

link to CRT https://vsbattles.com/threads/void-shiki-physiology-abilities.110920/

For the Transduality Type 2


How the hell Shiki has NEP type 2 and Transduality Type 2 at the same time?

The point of Transduality is that you neither can be classified as "exist" nor "non-exists", you are literally your own classification. Having NEP will only contradicted the Transduality.

idk anything about Transduality.. but maybe this could point you in the right direction..
 
How the hell Shiki has NEP type 2 and Transduality Type 2 at the same time?

The point of Transduality is that you neither can be classified as "exist" nor "non-exists", you are literally your own classification. Having NEP will only contradicted the Transduality.
Some TP Characters also have NEP Type 2 and Transduality

To explain better

NEP Type 2 does not adhere to the binary of Existence and Nonexistence. 0 = Nonexistence, 1 = Existence. NEP Type 2 doesn't have either number.
 
From my limited understanding about Transduality, type 2 means that you're beyond of all dual system of a certain verse.

For example: The Duality of "Exist" and "Non-exist".

Being with Abstract Existence type 1 is considered as "Exist"
Being with NEP type 2 is considered as Non-exist
But any Transduality being cannot be classified of either of those category, they are completely different.

So, Shiki having NEP type 2 would kinda disregard of her Transduality since that would makes her as "Nonexist"
 
From my limited understanding about Transduality, type 2 means that you're beyond of all dual system of a certain verse.

For example: The Duality of "Exist" and "Non-exist".

Being with Abstract Existence type 1 is considered as "Exist"
Being with NEP type 2 is considered as Non-exist
But any Transduality being cannot be classified of either of those category, they are completely different.

So, Shiki having NEP type 2 would kinda disregard of her Transduality since that would makes her as "Nonexist"
Read my above post.
 
Some TP Characters also have NEP Type 2 and Transduality

To explain better

NEP Type 2 does not adhere to the binary of Existence and Nonexistence. 0 = Nonexistence, 1 = Existence. NEP Type 2 doesn't have either number.
No.

The fact you describe Nonexistence as 0 means that NEP type 2 being is classified as 0. NEP type 2 just means that you lacks of concept, but you still be considered as "Nonexistent".

Transduality type 2 neither belongs to 0 nor 1, they belongs to their own category.
 
No.

The fact you describe Nonexistence as 0 means that NEP type 2 being is classified as 0. NEP type 2 just means that you lacks of concept, but you still be considered as "Nonexistent".

Transduality type 2 neither belongs to 0 nor 1, they belongs to their own category.
Yes.

"The lack of absolutely everything to a state of nonexistence at a conceptual level. Such a state defies even the most basic logical principles and is unknowable in the truest form, as it is not a state at all. Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness, or any abstract state which precedes or opposes the state of existence on all levels. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence."
 
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