Luke Skywalker vs Goku

[Akuto_Sai12]

Goku doesn't have force tho..

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

^ That's a verse equalization thing.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Because he needs to perform an action to release energy blasts. Luke doesn't.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Oh...yes I forgot about that..

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Star Wars chars still perform actions to use that.

If Gokus training with Whis was successful he doesn't need to think his body and mind are synced

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

In the movies, yes. EU, I doubt it, as Sidious mind wiped trillions at once.

That's kinda impossible, as it defies causality. Don't get me wrong, I know what scene you're talking about, but cause and effect dictates that he'd have to think, subconsciously or not, to perform an action.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

http://m.imgur.com/KYlUhRi?r

^Whis doesn't need to as I said if the training was successful he wins since he doesn't need to think but idk if it did since I don't watch super it's ridiculous

 

[Jucaslucas]

How can Luke destroy Goku's organs? Ya know, if universal durability and stuff.

Anyway, Goku destroys the galaxy, then ITs away. No way Luke survives that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Akuto I wholeheartedly believe you. It's just that the line can't make sense physics wise and implies that each body part is sentient.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Something something 'its a force attack' is the arguement for why durability is apparently uselss, is what I'm going to guess.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Gokus body is slightly superhuman in dura he's only universal with Ki aura surrounding him

 

[LTB2000]

The same can be said for every db character.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

How can Luke destroy Goku's organs? Ya know, if universal durability and stuff.

Anyway, Goku destroys the galaxy, then ITs away. No way Luke survives that.

Because organs don't get stronger with durability? Also, even with IT, if Goku destroys the galaxy, he'll kill himself via suffocation. He'll survive a planet bust, maybe up to a solar system bust, but nothing more via the range of IT

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Is there a reason the ki aura doesn't wrap through him and cover is insides as well?

 

[Jucaslucas]

Wouldn't his organs turn into mush everytime he receives a punch if they weren't durable enough to winstand the hits?

 

[Jucaslucas]

How can Luke destroy Goku's organs? Ya know, if universal durability and stuff.

Anyway, Goku destroys the galaxy, then ITs away. No way Luke survives that.

1-Because organs don't get stronger with durability? 2-Also, even with IT, if Goku destroys the galaxy, he'll kill himself via suffocation. He'll survive a planet bust, maybe up to a solar system bust, but nothing more via the range of IT

1- How not? If someone hits him hard in the face, and his head moves too fast, his brain would hit his skull and be damaged if it didn't have high durability.

2- Can't he teleport through the universe?

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

^ Right. Goky would get brain damage and otherwise snap like a twig with throwing or blocking those universal punches if his internals weren't just as durable.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Gokus MFTL+ those 3 seconds of suffocation is a lot more than he'd need to teleport

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Is there a reason the ki aura doesn't wrap through him and cover is insides as well?

Because there's no evidence to prove it.

Wouldn't his organs turn into mush everytime he receives a punch if they weren't durable enough to winstand the hits?

No, because that's not how dura works.

 

[LTB2000]

Can someone explain to me why a planet buster is fighting a universe buster.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Gokus MFTL+ those 3 seconds of suffocation is a lot more than he'd need to teleport

To teleport, he needs to locate a ki signature. He would've killed all of his ki signatures, even King Kai, with a galaxy bust.

 

[Jucaslucas]

Is there a reason the ki aura doesn't wrap through him and cover is insides as well?

Because there's no evidence to prove it.

Wouldn't his organs turn into mush everytime he receives a punch if they weren't durable enough to winstand the hits?

No, because that's not how dura works.

How the hell not? He constantly fights at mftl speeds. When he gets punched, his head would move at mftl speeds, and his brain would hit his skull. He would die from a single punch if his brain wasn't durable.

You know when you hit your head on something, and your skin isn't cut, and your skull isn't cracked, but you still feel pain? Same thing here. Now, imagine hitting your head at mftl speeds, and tell me with a straight face that your brain wouldn't turn into pasta.

Heck, it doesn't even have to be that fast. Your brain hitting the skull at even supersonic speeds would easily kill you.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Elder Kai is still an option though he'd suffocate before that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@JL. Because characters this high have skin, muscle, and bones strong enough that it won't even think of getting to their internal organs. Plus, you know how often DB characters vomit blood? It's probably become a trope by now.

 

[Jucaslucas]

@JL. Because characters this high have skin, muscle, and bones strong enough that it won't even think of getting to their internal organs. Plus, you know how often DB characters vomit blood? It's probably become a trope by now.

So, every single part of their bodies has super durability, aside from the most important and vital organs of the body . . .

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And they wouldn't vomit blood. They would fall on the floor and die instantly with every single hit. Of course, his organs aren't as durable as his bones and skin, but he has universal level durability. Even if his organs have only 0,0001% of the durability that his skin has, that's more than enough to tank Luke's small planet level attack potency.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

It's a real thing supported by science and biology. Just moving around and stopping suddenly alone would kill you if your internal durability didn't scale up, let alone throwing around fists that shatter galaxies.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm going to say this again. That isn't how this site, or OBD for that matter, works. Otherwise, organ hax wouldn't be a term people use.

 

[ToAruFan]

Then stalemate.

Since speed is equalized, Luke mind rapes Goku, and Goku punches Luke's head off, both occuring at the same time.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

I'm going to say this again. That isn't how this site, or OBD for that matter, works. Otherwise, organ hax wouldn't be a term people use.

If this site has a policy on this listed somewhere I haven't seen it. Do you have a link?

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Then stalemate.
Since speed is equalized, Luke mind rapes Goku, and Goku punches Luke's head off, both occuring at the same time.

Might as well go with the standard IT kamehameha at this point.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No, we don't have a policy for a hax.

 

[Jucaslucas]

I'm going to say this again. That isn't how this site, or OBD for that matter, works. Otherwise, organ hax wouldn't be a term people use.

Well, it's probably because the organs are way weaker than the rest of the body. But, in this case, Goku's durability is several orders of magnitude superior to Luke's ap, so the organ hax won't help.

If Goku's dura was equal, or a reasonable amount above Luke's ap, sure, it would work. But the discrepancy here is absurd.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

No, we don't have a policy for a hax.

You don't need a policy for hax, you need a policy for why characters everywhere aren't dying when they instantly stop moving when going over 30 miles per hour or whenever they hit or block something above that level of force - because that would kill a normal human, and you seem to be saying that the insides of a person don't scale up from 'normal human' with their durability.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

The page on Durability Negation lists attacking organs directly - but the description is only talking about attacks that bypass exterier layers of cloths and armor. It makes no mention of a persons insides having no durability compared to the outsides.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Because fiction likes to show otherwise. That's why Superman has his lobotomy that ignores durability. That's why the SW characters we're discussing ignore durability. That's why phasing altogether ignores durability.

Another way I like to think about it. Vader, who is < EU Luke has wins against people out of his AP league. Some of these people have more hax than Goku could ever hope. i.e. Kaguya and Naruto. Now while this isn't a reason to vote for Luke, as it compares outside battles, it is something to think about.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

What other people have gotten away with in other threads in the past doesn't matter to me. I'm only concerned with looking forward and what makes sense.

I'd rather have a real answer why this wiki treats everyones insides as not having scaled durability, if that is the case. Your explenation is too handwavy for me to be satisfied.

 

[Jucaslucas]

Because fiction likes to show otherwise. That's why Superman has his lobotomy that ignores durability. That's why the SW characters we're discussing ignore durability. That's why phasing altogether ignores durability.

Uh, no. Superman only lobotomized Manchester Black ( I think he didn't even do it, it was just a bluff, iirc), and Parasyte. Those are the 2 ones that I know of, there might be more. Black has human durability, and uses tk shields, while Parasyte has good durability, but Superman's hv is just strong enough to hurt him. Superman ca hurt people with good durability with his hv, because the heat vision is powerful enough to do it. If he tries that on a galaxy level character, it wouldn't even tickle.

Phasing generally screws with the molecular structure of the enemy in most attacks I see. That ignores durability.

 

[Jucaslucas]

Another way I like to think about it. Vader, who is < EU Luke has wins against people out of his AP league. Some of these people have more hax than Goku could ever hope. i.e. Kaguya and Naruto. Now while this isn't a reason to vote for Luke, as it compares outside battles, it is something to think about.

Kaguya and Naruto are more haxed than Goku, but they don't have universal durability.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

^ Specific attacks that are stated by mechanics to ignore durability (like sub atomic matter manipulation or soul attacks) and whose explenations make sense are one thing, claiming 'oh all characters are as weak as normal humans on the inside' is some other absurd thing entirely.

 

[Jucaslucas]

You know, I'm just going to make a thread about the subject.