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Luigi VS Tails (5-11-0)

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Huh? How are the robots not having a mind related? Not having a mind doesn't mean they can resist perception manipulation, that doesn't make any sense. Luigi's flow of time slows down when using perception manipulation. As I've said, if Tails is allowed to set up something prior to the battle, then Luigi can use Flip right before the battle starts and Tails is screwed.

You give no reasoning as to how Tails is going to make Luigi move. He can't touch him, what are his options? Luigi is resistant to gravity manipulation and void manipulation, falling down doesn't count as Luigi moving for whatever reason. Also, Flip no longer has a time limit since after completing the Pit of 100 Trials, it gets rid of the time limit. While using Flip, Luigi can stop time, rever back, and finish Tails off.
 
Even with all of that, Tails can still make a machine that will BFR Luigi the moment he arrives.

Also, no side is allowed to harm the other before the match begins
 
SBA would mean they start over 4km apart, so before Luigi gets to Tails he could set something up while Luigi walks to there and all, the just go to space while Luigi deals with robots and Flickies while he sets a machine to mindhax/BFR him and all

The fact he would have to move to even get close to Tails to affect him? Tails can fly out of Luigi's range, and falling down he would have to climb up to get back

Never said Flip had a time limit, I know after completing Flopside's pit it gets removed
 
Prove that Tails can make a machine that BFR's immediately. Flip isn't something that is used to harm Luigi, I'm saying if Tails is allowed to be equipped with something or set up something before the match starts, Luigi can start the match in a flip state.

Starting distance is irrelevant when perception manipulate still works, Time Stop always having universal range unless shown otherwise, and due to how fast these characters like. Hit is a good example. He can stop time for less than a second, but because of how fast they are, this doesn't matter. Luigi uses perception manipulation and gets so much time in his hands since Luigi can already make other MFTL+ characters that scale to him way slower. Starting distance isn't gonna help.

Luigi can already fly with stuff like the Red Star, so eh.

"Flip is limited" you said it yourself.
 
Tails would make the BFR machine before the battle and will set it to fire on Luigi the moment the match starts. Also if the perception manip only makes them slower, then it still doesn't matter since he needs to stay still for that to work. Slow or not, the flickies and the robots will reach him, and then the haxes will fail
 
The fact in less time he made a dimensional travel machine, and has made way more complex machines in less time, he literaly just reusing technology, ignoring the fact that this prep means he could reverse engineer Eggman's mind control rays FRA

I mean Flip is limited because of the fact Luigi wouldn't be able to harm anyone while using it

Sure that starting distance doesn't matter but Tails still outranges him, stopping time or perception manipulation don't matter if Luigi can't hit Tails with it, and I explained ways he can counter the perception manipulation as well, and the Red Star has a time limit, Tails doesn't

Tails can still snipe him from space and all, removing Slim from the fight because Luigi would be forced to chase him, and in Galaxy you are vulberable while flying around
 
Tails' BFR comes from the fact that he can make a ship to go to other dimensions. That doesn't prove that Tails' machine is still faster than Luigi's thought based ability. You're getting Luigi's abilites mixed up. Flip is a Pixl Luigi uses to become so flat, nothing affects him. Zone Speed is an ability Luigi (and many others) have that slows down their view of time. Luigi can freely move around while using this ability. The Flickies nor robots aren't going to reach Luigi due to how much slower they will be. Refer to my Hit example. Luigi is going to have a lot of time to seal, transmute, BFR, and stop time.
 
But even with all that he still can't reach Tails in space, so he can still snipe him from there

Also ignoring the fact all these machines were already built ones, we haven't used the possibility of him building new ones during the two weeks, heck, Eggman used sleeping gas before, Tails could just make it in 2 weeks for example to put Luigi to sleep, we just entertrained him using pre-existant machines and modyfying them
 
Tails isn't gonna be in space, he's gonna be 4km away. Tails has yet to have a machine that will be faster than Luigi thinking. Luigi thinks, he has so much time do anything, he wins.

Luigi can still use Stop Watch during Flip, meaning he cah freeze time during this and end it.

Time Stop and Perception manipulation automatically give a large range, this is standard. So Tails' 4KM distance doesn't matter. While Tails is slow, Luigi can run up and do anything. Refer to my Hit example. Hit freezes people for less than a second. He claims that because he's so fast, this ability is still incredibly useful. And in Luigi's case, he comes waaay faster than other MFTL+ characters while using this. Luigi's abilities can still hit flying opponents anyways.
 
If Tails can put a timer to his machine before the battle starts, then Luigi can Flip to the second dimension before the battle starts, allowing Luigi to bypass anything Tails throws. So that argument is moot.
 
4km already gives him time to just fly away, you are ignoring the fact I already said how Tails can counter perception manipulation with Adrenaline rush, which he can use the two weeks to make it so it works on himself or have a robot/flickie use it on him prior the matche giving him perception manipulation

Luigi can't run up because Tails would be up in the sky out of is ten metters range, Hit actualy has the range to do things unlike him, and speed is equal, so Luigi making MFTL characters slow is kinda irrelevant here

Luigi has tens of metters range, Tails has interstelar, if Tails uses the 2 weeks to copy Eggman's machines (which he has the resources to) alot of the winning ones have planetary range

Tails has simply more win-cons (which you admited) and Slim (the main reason you voted) is not helpful because Tails can abuse range, perception manipulation gets countered by either range and Tails's own moves

We haven't even talked about Tails making new machines outside of already existing ones in all that time, or even basic stuff like poison gas and sleeping gas that can be made irl by regular humans and all, or his life-force absortion, or probability manipulation that will make Luigi less likely to hit him, body puppetry that can control Luigi's body and make him use a item or not, etc.

I am going to sleep rn Blaze so don't make the thread to active please
 
> Body Puppetry (Can force an opponent to move or use their items)

This right here would counter Luigi using any of his best items/power ups, and the Slim argument
 
Luigi will probably collect all the powerups in his prep time, which gets him to 3-C (Pure Hearts is theoretical and only exists in Paper Mario, so I didn't count that). But Tails is Low 2-C, so he easily wins. Luigi do have void manip and existence erasure, but I don't think that works on Low 2-C's, and even if it does, Tails himself has void manip and is likely somewhat resistant to it.
 
Theuser789 said:
4km already gives him time to just fly away, you are ignoring the fact I already said how Tails can counter perception manipulation with Adrenaline rush, which he can use the two weeks to make it so it works on himself or have a robot/flickie use it on him prior the matche giving him perception manipulation
Luigi can't run up because Tails would be up in the sky out of is ten metters range, Hit actualy has the range to do things unlike him, and speed is equal, so Luigi making MFTL characters slow is kinda irrelevant here

Luigi has tens of metters range, Tails has interstelar, if Tails uses the 2 weeks to copy Eggman's machines (which he has the resources to) alot of the winning ones have planetary range

Tails has simply more win-cons (which you admited) and Slim (the main reason you voted) is not helpful because Tails can abuse range, perception manipulation gets countered by either range and Tails's own moves

We haven't even talked about Tails making new machines outside of already existing ones in all that time, or even basic stuff like poison gas and sleeping gas that can be made irl by regular humans and all, or his life-force absortion, or probability manipulation that will make Luigi less likely to hit him, body puppetry that can control Luigi's body and make him use a item or not, etc.

I am going to sleep rn Blaze so don't make the thread to active please </div>
Click to expand...
Perception Manipulation says no to him flying away. Adrenaline Rush does NOT counter perception manipulation. This only gives Tails a minor speed boost, which is limited. Unlike Luigi's thought based perception manipulation, Tails' move isn't thought based and doesn't allow him to use it immediately. If Tails can do stuff prior, then so can Luigi and therfore use Flip or Duplication.

Luigi can already jump several stories high, add that with flight and the fact that Luigi has fought other enemies, this is irrelevant. Especially when Tails will be slowed down or even frozen. My point was Luigi can make people who are comparable to him in speed become a lot slower. Meaning Tails isn't going to be fast enough to use anything else. Luigi however can.

Time Stop and Perception manipulation in this case affect everyone. Time Stop is always universal range unless shown otherwise and perception manipulation doesn't need range since it slows down Luigi's view of time. So range is irrelevant.

Perception manipulation isn't gonna get countered by a speed amp FRA nor by range since the attacks are going to be hella slow. My main argument is thought based perception manipulation, Tails has no way out of it.

Poison + Sleep manipulation is already resisted, Tails' body puppetry not only isn't thought based, but the item Luigi will be forced to use is completely random. Due to how many Luigi has, it won't matter much. Probability manipulation gets negged by locked on sealing and transmutation not needing to hit his opponent. Also Tails is going to be completely frozen.
 
Yes it does because Luigi doesn't have the range to do anything even spaming it, Tails is already outranges him right at the start, and Tails can use Laser Wisp, speed amps and the adrenaline rush to make that the perception manipulation even useless, not even in Mario games Luigi's perception manipulation makes people into statues, it only slows down in Tennis's matches. Who the actual **** even said Luigi can't set stuff prior? Duplication can easily be countered by placing bombs and dummy rings since they disapear when hit, and flip can be countered by spaming body control or getting out of range, also adrenaline rush is not a speed boost, it straight up says it's limited time manipulation, and ignoring the fact Tails could upgrade it with his 2 weeks

Dude, Tails's range is interstellar Luigi still only has tens of metters range, jumping buildings in irrelevant when Tails can fly to the other side of the solar system and still be able to affect Luigi, sure Luigi can fly, his flying is limited, it literaly has a time limit and he is vulnerable while in it, already explained perception manipulation

Time stop having universal range is completely irrelevant here, for example, Dio has a universal time stop, yet he isn't going to be able to do anything in it if his opponent is in space or another country, same thing aplies to Luigi, his effective range is too short

Perception manipulation gets countered FRA, Tails has ways out of it, plus his perception manipulation can't be active all the time, it is zone speed isn't not? Luigi can't use that forever

Tails's body puppetry means he can force Luigi to not use the item he want, so it will matter in the long run, and Tails can make power ups and dimensional storage, nothing stops him for making Eggman boxes like items and giving them to Luigi, making this Russian Roulete

This is not even ignoring the fact that with two weeks Tails could easily just make a machine who counters perception manipulation, since he made harder in less time, or any other invention, we literaly are only using the basic of the basic here, 2 weeks is alot of time to build things I been holding back on you
 
Well that fight seems to be over

Does anyone have any another ideas for a fair Mario vs Sonic match?
 
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