Luffy vs Zoro

[Eminiteable]

It's not "a zoro fans wetdream" to say Zoro could just annoy Luffy to distract him or simply wait out his turn making future sight ineffective.

 

[Purgy]

Luffy came up with Snakeman to counter future sight users because Rayleigh told him about them, it wasn't the beatings from kat that made Luffy realise the weakness in future sight (in fact previously when he used boundman he just made kat distracted to overcome future sight). He wasn't able to use that against kat while in base since kat wouldn't give Luffy time to breathe nor was the playing field even on each side (kat >>> Luffy, but in chess both sides are equal).

I thought we were discussing Luffy figuring out Katakuri could see the future, why does counteracting it even matter until Zoro realizes Luffy has it, which he won't be able to do.

 

[Purgy]

It's not "a zoro fans wetdream" to say Zoro could just annoy Luffy to distract him or simply wait out his turn making future sight ineffective.

He needs to know about Future sight first, which he doesn't.

 

[Eminiteable]

Zoro went through training just as Luffy had, he knew about Conqueror's haki (even though he probably never encountered it while training) Mihawk likely made him aware of it's Existence similar to Rayleigh made Luffy aware.

It was difficult for Luffy at first to realise kat could see into the future as he was confused by his abilities (kat was emulating a logia but wasn't able to be harmed by armament) here both would probably attempt to use observation from the start (they're pirates) if Zoro is losing to Luffy it wouldn't take much to realise that Luffy can foresee further into the future.

 

[Purgy]

Zoro went through training just as Luffy had, he knew about Conqueror's haki (even though he probably never encountered it while training) Mihawk likely made him aware of it's Existence similar to Rayleigh made Luffy aware.
It was difficult for Luffy at first to realise kat could see into the future as he was confused by his abilities (kat was emulating a logia but wasn't able to be harmed by armament) here both would probably attempt to use observation from the start (they're pirates) if Zoro is losing to Luffy it wouldn't take much to realise that Luffy can foresee further into the future.

Let me rephrase that. Zoro needs to know Luffy has Future Sight first. Your justifications for Zoro figuring out Luffy has Future Sight is asinine, like seriously, you're just conjuring a scenario where Zoro is much more intelligent than he actually is and has Batman level deductive capabilities. In reality, Zoro will never figure out Luffy has Future Sight in this Chess Match.

 

[Eminiteable]

Batman levels of deduction... Huh... If he knows Future sight exists and knows both he and Luffy have a lesser version of it but Luffy is beating him it doesn't take much for realise that he has future sight..

You're implying precognition is a completely foreign concept to Zoro that he never considered the possibility of being real.

They both aren't that intelligent but the difference here like what was mentioned by @RoronoaxRobin This is the same guy that understood Franky telling him his former shipwright master's brother was recoating their ship as "so he's a shipwright who's coating Franky's brother".

 

[Purgy]

Batman levels of deduction... Huh... If he knows Future sight exists and knows both he and Luffy have a lesser version of it but Luffy is beating him it doesn't take much for realise that he has future sight..

I like to exaggerate, but you get the idea. The point remains, we've already acknowledged Zoro and Luffy aren't the most intelligent of characters, him figuring out Luffy has Future Sight in this one chess match is beyond what Zoro can do, he has nothing to go on. Lastly, him being aware of Future Sight is a theory, it's probable sure, but unlike with Rayleigh, we never saw Mihawk mention Future Sight.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm not going to read all the previous comments because I don't want to.

First of all, Zoro has no way around Future Sight no matter how hard you try to argue for it. His BOAT is a basic display of Haki an Inept User can achieve. Rudimentary Users are a whole league above them. Proficient Users can easily toy with Rudimentary Users. And we have seen an Advanced User stomping a Proficient User already. Zoro can't and won't counter Luffy's Future Sight with some noob Haki use lmao.

His Analytical Prediction is also useless. What's he gonna predict? Luffy moving a piece from A5 to A6? He'd need some higher awareness and tactical skill to do that, and while he can very well watch and think what move Luffy might do according to his own moves, he can't reasonably think an scenario where he has all the possible outcomes from a single move. Zoro's smarter, but not by leagues.

Pretty much like Luffy, Zoro is the kind of person who tries everything until he finds a way. Luffy's more like this, giving Zoro a bit of space to act a bit more level headed and tactical, but Luffy is also tactical in the way he thinks. In fact, Snakeman is a good evidence of Luffy knowing where to attack. When he first Jet Culverin'd Katakuri he aimed at the Commander's right side to make him dodge to the left, then he bounced his arm back at him to get around him and attack from the left, the same side Katakuri moved to. This means Luffy knows how to plant a sneak attack or make the enemy move where he wants to. And this is one of the things he did to Crocodile when he turned into Mizu Luffy too.

Luffy's Future Sight is an advantage, alright. Although not a great one. Just from the fact that it can only allow a few seconds, it's not very effective on a chess game, where people takes minutes to make a move.

There's only two scenarios where a "normal person" moves his pieces quickly;

• When he makes the opponent fall into a trap or;

• When it's a total moron who doesn't know he has to act calm in chess to not get obliterated.

Both are prone to second option, and this is where Luffy's advantage begins. If Zoro sets a trap for him and Luffy attempts to fall on it, he'd see Zoro take advantage thanks to Haki, and he'd avoid such trap (if possible). Zoro can't counter this and he isn't aware that Luffy can see into the future.

And considering both are very prone to move the pieces as wild as they can at some parts of the game, Luffy would take a very good advantage with his Haki.

And no, Zoro can't change the future, mostly because Luffy didn't do that against Katakuri. He was outspeeding his reactions but Kata was very capable of watching his moves. He never stated that Luffy was changing the future but giving him a lot of troubles by dodging and starting to watch the future.

And even if this was true, this is a feat for Luffy that Zoro can't scale to unless you have solid evidence on that.

So from Incon I think Luffy would win, ironically.

 

[Eminiteable]

He hits Katakuri at first in snakeman due to "changing the future" that Katakuri saw, this isn't due to some advanced technique that only Luffy possesses it's just how future sight functions, just as messing with another person's mental state would prevent them from focusing to use future sight.

Wasn't aware breathe of all things was considered Inept observation as we currently still have it just as Extrasensory Perception.

 

[The_Calaca]

Lol no.

He literally tricked Katakuri into thinking he just threw a punch to ricochet it to his left and connect the blow. He didn't change the future. Katakuri didn't say anything like this.


It's obviously Observation. Zoro becomes aware of the surroundings just like how Rayleigh states you can feel everything around, and Zoro knew the rocks wouldn't fall above him just like how Precognition works.

 

[Purgy]

And again, Zoro hasn't even demonstrated being able to conciously use that, so why it's being brought up I have no idea.

 

[The_Calaca]

Exactly. Even Post-Timeskip Zoro doesn't display any use of Observation beyond sensing Caribou in Neptune's Palace despite being the first crew member unlocking its use.

 

[Eminiteable]

Hmm it should be changed then on his pre-timeskip profile, is it worth creating a CRT for it?

Katakuri uses his future sight to dodge attacks tho, idk seems kind of dumb of him to not use it a be confused as to why he got hit despite dodging.

 

[Purgy]

What should be changed?

 

[Eminiteable]

Similar to how Cutting steel was changed to inept armament (this was explained by Hyouzou in wano arc to be an application of advanced Armament, so Zoro doing it pre-timeskip makes it inept). Extrasensory Perception should be changed to inept observation (although he would still have Extrasensory perception on his profile due to sensing curses)

 

[PaChi2]

Can someone tell me how are the votes going?

 

[Eminiteable]

Luffy: 2 (purgy calaca) Zoro: 2 (Eminiteable, roronoaxrobin)

 

[Eminiteable]

Anyways regarding inept observation being put in for pre-timeskip, is it fine to just do it or should I make a thread about it?

 

[PaChi2]

Bump

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It would be a draw since both has haki